Dyno testing Amsoil against other oils.

[OnTheReel]

Good theory Grump. I just took all my questions to the man himself directly. Still had his contact info since we were talking about a sample he ran for me a few months back. 
 

Edit: just got an out of office until the 15th reply. PRI trade show. 

Edited December 9, 2025 by OnTheReel

[customboss]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Why so hot?

 

 

Did we miss the use of a specific break in oil? HUGE ZDP levels. Enough to cause allot of friction and it doesn't go away quickly. It isn't because Red Line has SL levels of ZDP (1100-1250 ppm) but because the break in oil has TWICE that much and takes longer than one may think to wear off. Looks like it lingered for the first two samples and two flushing sequences, tapering off in only a few hours running. 2 hours test and 20/30 minute flushes. 

 

This motor may indeed have 7,000 dyno pulls on it but it also has seen allot of rebuilds and gets this break-in with each new cam and or ring package. 

Nope they flush it out. 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, customboss said:

Nope they flush it out. 

 

Nope they don't. C'mon man your are better than this. You are saying these hard glass films adhering to the metallic substrates can be washed off by an oil change like blowing feathers of a table with a leaf blower. They wouldn't be very effective in anti wear if that were remotely possible. These are HARD and TENATIOUS films that have to be WORN away like wearing hard chrome off a 4340 shaft. Ain't that easy and no, the films are not as hard, but the idea is the same. You can't rip it off like a Band-Aid or wash it off like chalk. 

 

What will flush out is that reserve amount that has not been converted to film. That sill in solution/suspension. The whole point of over saturation of ZDP is to overwhelm any polarity in the system challenging the ZDP for space and building a layer thick enough to CONTROL the rate of asperity WEAR thus preventing cold weld damage. It why mineral oils are preferred to Esters or AN's in Break In oils. Not as polar. 

 

That motor was rebuild and broke in before testing. Whatever oil was up first was going to get hammered. JUNK SIENCE. 

 

I provided a scholarly paper, that I will not look up again, showing the relationship between ZDP film thickness and friction. Several years ago I provide a link to a paper showing the lubricity enhancement of POE by percentage in PAO's that exceed any other base oils ability. 

 

I have never seen such a hate for a product based on innuendo and half baked observations. 

 

I found the reason Ravens last sample was such a dud. It was ridiculously simple. I also know why all her previous samples with such and evil oil as Red Line HP far exceed the result of the test subject it was gauged against that used Mobil 1 over the same length of time/miles. Also ridiculously simple. And light years better than 0W20 Idemitsu. 

 

 

 

 

[OnTheReel]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Nope they don't. C'mon man your are better than this. You are saying these hard glass films adhering to the metallic substrates can be washed off by an oil change like blowing feathers of a table with a leaf blower. They wouldn't be very effective in anti wear if that were remotely possible. These are HARD and TENATIOUS films that have to be WORN away like wearing hard chrome off a 4340 shaft. Ain't that easy and no, the films are not as hard, but the idea is the same. You can't rip it off like a Band-Aid or wash it off like chalk. 

 

What will flush out is that reserve amount that has not been converted to film. That sill in solution/suspension. The whole point of over saturation of ZDP is to overwhelm any polarity in the system challenging the ZDP for space and building a layer thick enough to CONTROL the rate of asperity WEAR thus preventing cold weld damage. It why mineral oils are preferred to Esters or AN's in Break In oils. Not as polar. 

 

That motor was rebuild and broke in before testing. Whatever oil was up first was going to get hammered. JUNK SIENCE. 

 

I provided a scholarly paper, that I will not look up again, showing the relationship between ZDP film thickness and friction. Several years ago I provide a link to a paper showing the lubricity enhancement of POE by percentage in PAO's that exceed any other base oils ability. 

 

I have never seen such a hate for a product based on innuendo and half baked observations. 

 

I found the reason Ravens last sample was such a dud. It was ridiculously simple. I also know why all her previous samples with such and evil oil as Red Line HP far exceed the result of the test subject it was gauged against that used Mobil 1 over the same length of time/miles. Also ridiculously simple. And light years better than 0W20 Idemitsu. 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STLE_ORG/Newsletter/2019/TL/FilmThicknessAndFrictionOfZDDP.pdf

[OnTheReel]

Notice the difficulty in measuring and understanding these tribofilms, and how long they can have an effect. Science probably wouldn’t assume they could just be flushed away so quickly between tests.

[Grumpy Bear]

I'd also like to know what the reasoning is for the elevated temperature of the break in oil. Hint, it isn't viscosity. How about the Pennzoil elevated temperature? 

 

And if Ester is evil and corrosive why AMSOIL's high ester content isn't adding corrosive wear. It is as high as my last batches of Red Line Euro. 

 

HPL also was higher wear and the lowest ester content of the three. 

 

Why did Red Line produce the lowest bulk oil temperature in Pepper? Lower that QS and lower than Mobil 1? Why did 5W40 Red Line not raise the bulk oil temperature? (last not shown)

 

 

Why are the copper and iron results in @OnTheReel's motor lower with Red Line than on Pennzoil? 

 

Why oh why indeed. Remember, I bring receipts.  

Edited December 10, 2025 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

What relationship is there between a daily driver and a dyno motor doing full power pulls every five minutes for two hours? Boat motor graph showing the difference between car and dyno as a dyno loads just as hard as a boat. Seems a fair comparison. 50 hour oil changes for marine motors if I remember correctly.  

 

Explain how Red Line go so corrosive in 2 hours as to generate that much acidic wear without any oxidation? Where are the acid and base values to support that claim? If it isn't acidic then it's viscosity or dirt. There are only so many rabbits in that hat. Why in a lifetime of using Ester based products have I NEVER pulled a corrosive bearing from a motor nor had a single bearing failure? 

 

 

Trolling for 'clicks' isn't science. Neither is avoiding repeatability testing. No A-B-A? Not required? 

[customboss]

14 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Whatever oil was up first was going to get hammered

Break in oil. Not Redline. 

[customboss]

12 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

Notice the difficulty in measuring and understanding these tribofilms, and how long they can have an effect. Science probably wouldn’t assume they could just be flushed away so quickly between tests.

The ZDTP in use in any of these oils was not that much chemically different. You can flush tribo films and micro corrosion that ZDTP does to contact surfaces. 
 

 

You both are grasping at straws.  
 

 

[customboss]

7 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I'd also like to know what the reasoning is for the elevated temperature of the break in oil.

 

The 10w40 break in oil Baseline temp wasn’t listed. YES IT WAS. I CORRECTED.

 

 So are you purposely attempting to distract from the actual oil comparison by demeaning the engine?

I’m happy you guys are happy with red line in your engines. I don’t care. It’s the chemistry stupid. The chemistry was different. Chemistries were compared against each other in the same engine in a test engine that they know the data for at certain temperatures certain pressure certain RPMs and they can duplicate them. What do you not understand about that?

The bottom line is you can’t accept a data set from an in-depth test on a NASCAR style engine to determine what the best oil is you just can’t accept it so own it. 

Edited December 10, 2025 by customboss

[customboss]

7 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I'd also like to know what the reasoning is for the elevated temperature of the break in oil. Hint, it isn't viscosity. How about the Pennzoil elevated temperature? 

 

And if Ester is evil and corrosive why AMSOIL's high ester content isn't adding corrosive wear. It is as high as my last batches of Red Line Euro. 

 

HPL also was higher wear and the lowest ester content of the three. 

 

Why did Red Line produce the lowest bulk oil temperature in Pepper? Lower that QS and lower than Mobil 1? Why did 5W40 Red Line not raise the bulk oil temperature? (last not shown)

 

 

Why are the copper and iron results in @OnTheReel's motor lower with Red Line than on Pennzoil? 

 

Why oh why indeed. Remember, I bring receipts.  

You didn’t bring crap to the table you’re arguing apples and oranges grumpy and you know it. You know if you’re having good results with redline more power too. I’m happy for you but when compared to five or six other oils, it didn’t do that. Well that’s the fact that that’s the receipts you’re bringing me for receipts that have nothing to do with the test which is common for you sadly.

[customboss]

18 hours ago, customboss said:

Nope they flush it out. 

OK, I’ll give it. You found the 10W-40 temperature range. Why do new engines run hotter grumpy? They are breaking in that’s why it wasn’t used that data wasn’t used against the other oils you want an engine that produces the same characteristics so each oil gets a fair shot. That’s just testing. You’re just throwing up stuff to stick to the wall.

[customboss]

on road, in same car, oil analysis testing over 10,000 miles of Driven DI 30 vs Pennzoil Ultra 0w-40. 

 

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/ofC9T4jK200?si=gx5iy7SmcG7o8f5W
 

 

[OnTheReel]

4 hours ago, customboss said:

The ZDTP in use in any of these oils was not that much chemically different. You can flush tribo films and micro corrosion that ZDTP does to contact surfaces. 
 

 

You both are grasping at straws.  
 

 

Not grasping at anything. His results certainly don’t invalidate what I’ve already observed in real life, so why would I care?
 

Some things in the video don’t pass the smell test, that’s all. Unfortunately your skepticism of LSJr suddenly disappears when his test makes Red Line look bad.

[Black02Silverado]

On 12/9/2025 at 4:27 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

Why so hot?

 

 

Did we miss the use of a specific break in oil? HUGE ZDP levels. Enough to cause allot of friction and it doesn't go away quickly. It isn't because Red Line has SL levels of ZDP (1100-1250 ppm) but because the break in oil has TWICE that much and takes longer than one may think to wear off. Looks like it lingered for the first two samples and two flushing sequences, tapering off in only a few hours running. 2 hours test and 20/30 minute flushes. 

 

This motor may indeed have 7,000 dyno pulls on it but it also has seen allot of rebuilds and gets this break-in with each new cam and or ring package. 

Did I miss it or did they install a new cam for this test and break it in first?