Specifics Of Black Bear Tune?

rufous · March 6, 2009

I bought a new 2008 Chevy Silverado recently with a 5.3L V8. I am thinking about getting a custom tune on it. I have read many posts on the subject and sent a lengthy email to Justin at Black Bear Performance asking for more information about what he can do. He answered but I still do not understand very well what all he can do when he reprograms the Performance Control Module and Transmission Control Module. I do not know enough about the subject to tell him to do this, this and this.

How did you guys go about specifying to Justin exactly what you wanted him to alter? He said, "There are literally hundreds, if not over 1000 tables/parameters that I have access to in many vehicles. I typically will make changes to 50-60+

tables/parameters"

The problem is I have no idea what to tell him to do exactly. How did you guys go about this?

I am concerned about the hassle of reinstalling the original modules whenever I want to take the truck in for service at the dealer. How much trouble is it to do that? Do you need a laptop computer each time? What is a crank relearn and how is it done?

One of the things I would hope to accomplish by getting my truck tuned is to get better gas mileage. I want to spend less money to go further. I know some of you have your trucks tuned for a higher octane fuel but I am not too keen on that idea unless it will net me real results of getting even better gas mileage than a lower octane fuel would. AAA has reported that the only reason to use higher octane fuel is to reduce pinging if the engine pings on a lower octane fuel. From what AAA said it sure sounds like using higher octane fuel is a waste of money if not needed to reduce pinging. But Justin said, "AAA is not accurate here, especially with newer GM vehicles and their extremely sensitive knock sensor. You may not hear any pinging, but I guarantee you that the computer is detecting what it thinks is pinging/knock and reducing the ignition timing as a result. Higher octane fuel on this GM truck, especially when tuned for it, will typically yield an additional 1mpg over 87 along with an additional 10-15hp"

Can any of you elaborate more on this subject? If running the next higher grade (using 89 octane instead of 87 octane) got me 1 mpg better then I could see doing that because 89 costs usually only 5% more but 1 mpg is more like 6% better. So that makes economic sense. And if I can get better gas mileage and more power that truly sounds great. I just wonder how real this all is. And would I get 1 mpg with 89 octane instead of 87 octane or would I need to use 91 or 93 octane to get that 1 mpg? If I needed to use 91 or 93 octane then it would not be a cost savings.

I also am quite irritated by the lag in responsiveness when I try to pass. I would want that reduced or removed along with crisper shifting (torque management reduction I guess is what accomplishes that).

One other area of query at this point. My truck has a 3.73 rear end. My understanding is that a 3.42 would give better gas mileage. Is that correct? If so would it be possible to easily replace the 3.73 with a 3.42? What would that likely cost and how much better gas mileage would I likely get? I basically never tow anything so I think I would do well with a 3.42 rear end. What are your thoughts on that? Thanks so much, Brian.

txab · March 6, 2009

He's done so many of these tunes, he basically knows what you want without you having to ask questions. Just mention the things you listed in this thread and you'll be taken care of. He'll ask you a few questions.

Modules are easy to change out. No laptop needed.

You'll love the new responsiveness after your tune.

I got the 87 tune because in my area at the time, higher octanes were in very short supply thanks to hurricanes on the coast and a major refinery being down for long-term repairs

Nick The Great · March 6, 2009

I think telling Justin what you just told us is a start.

I didn't really know what I wanted with mine. I told him I didn't like the lag when passing, and I wanted a little firmer shifts (Good Idea!).

And if you're so concerned about fuel mileage, why did you buy a full size truck? I'm sure swapping rear gears will help a little, but hardly enough to justify all the time and grief.

stadt11 · March 6, 2009

Brian, I was in the same boat as you when I got my truck tuned by Justin last fall. I had no idea the "parameters" to change. I basically told him (similar to what you said) - you have to push the pedal harder to pass a car, it's a dog off the line, the truck seems to fall on its' face when shifting to 2nd, etc.

Definitely get the extra set of modules, they take some time at first to change them out, but you'll get the hang of it after a few tries.

I have 3.42 gears, you may get a little better gas mileage (I thought that too when I bought the truck last spring), but it won't be as responsive as the 3.73's. I now wish I had the 3.73's, take a look at the Black Bear link in my sig. Even though it's a GMT800, you can see my 0-60 time isn't that great, but it is impressive IMO for a 5.3L w/ 3.42's & just a 91 tune. IMO, I'd say go with the highest octane tune you can afford, you're truck will thank you later.

Stick with the 3.73's, it'll take some work to change them and you will probably regret doing it if you do switch.

When I got the tune, I had "hoped" for better gas mileage, but with a new & improved truck you cannot help but enjoy your new beast! I only tested my mileage briefly after a few months with the tune (because I couldn't stand driving slow & easy anymore) and did see about a 1mpg increase in city (15.4 to 16.3) and about a 2mpg increase in my highway (19.2 to 20.9).

When Justin sat in my passenger seat, he asked me "so, what do you want to change" & I mentioned to him what I wrote previously. Just told him "I would like the truck to fell like 'this'" or "my truck does 'this' but I would like it to do 'that'" or "when I'm at 'this' speed it seems sluggish and would like it to be as little as effort as possible to touch the pedal to pass somebody" etc/etc/etc

You've got a great start, keep going. Definitely go with Justin @ Black Bear, his tune will wake your truck up and you will really enjoy it.

Yes you will see better fuel mileage, that is IF you keep your foot out of it (it will be hard because your truck will feel like a new machine!).

Good luck & enjoy!

superjim · March 6, 2009

I did not have a truck to tune, but I had Justin at BlackBear tune my Cadillac Performance Sedan. (Picture below)

First I will say this.. I loved my big ole DTS Performance Sedan before I had it tuned.

I love it even MORE now.

The car is no quieter or smoother now when driving it.

All the tuning was on the engine and transmission.

It did NOT effect the smooth idle or how smooth the car runs.

The car idles so smooth that if you have the radio on...you need to look at the tach to see if it is running.

The lag in responsiveness is caused by the nannies that GM has put in your truck. The tune takes care of that and the lag will be gone.

Changing the modules on your truck takes about 5 minutes...10 minutes if you are slow.

The Tuning on my car took about an hour and a half and involved Justin plugging his laptop with the tuning software into the OBD port of the Cadillac and then riding with me and making changes to the cars computers as I drove the car. The procedure is the same on trucks of course.

We drove down the freeway for three or four miles for him to get a baseline on where to start.

Then for the next hour and a half...

He changed the advance curve and the maximum advance of the timing..

He did a lot of adjusting to the fuel tables...

He set mine for Premium Fuel, as that is all I run in it anyway...

He raised the transmission line pressure for firmer, better shifts...

He removed 75% of the torque management...

He raised the shift points from 6600 to 6800 RPM...

He raised the speed at which it would DOWNSHIFT back into a lower gear...

He raised the speed limiter from 123 mph to 180 mph.

I had hit the 123 mph limiter too many times and wanted it raised.

In summary, the car is just as smooth and quite as it ever was but now it RUNS BETTER and is even MORE FUN to drive.

As an added benefit, on the trip I recently made from Texas to Florida and back, it got around 2 mpg BETTER mileage than usual.

Part of the increase in mileage might be accounted for because I wasn't in quite as big of a hurry as usual. But even if there is no increase in mileage, the car is so much better to drive, it is worth it.

I took it to the local 1/8th mile drag strip the other day and ran a best time of 10.01. I think it would have got into the 9's if it didn't have so much wheelspin and wheelhop coming off the line.

I have been known to drive kind of, shall we say,...BRISKLY...and now that I have this one tuned even better than stock... It is GREAT. I love it.

You touch the gas pedel...it GOES...RIGHT NOW...not later, whenever it decides to.

mattgob86 · March 6, 2009

BRISKLY!!!!

superjim · March 6, 2009

BRISKLY!!!!

Occasionally....

66nova · March 6, 2009

Man, you are over thinking it! If you want the best advice I can give you is...Don't try to tell Justin what to change. Tell him what you want out of the truck.

There are multiple reasons that we all like using Justin. First off he does a great tune, you will be pleased. But more importantly (because a lot of tuners do a good tune) his customer service is top notch. He is a straight shooter and he will tell you what he can and can't do or what he should and shouldn't do.

Tell him what you would like to see, tell him what you do with the truck, and TAKE HIS ADVISE.

IF you are not happy with it (not likely) then you tell him and he will retune it for free for life.

I have a 93 octane tune on my 6.0 Vmax. I LOVE IT!!!! No regrets what so ever going high octane. I have seen a range of 0.5 to 1.5 mpg increase when I am driving for mpg. But like has been previously stated, don't expect that increase for the first few months. It's too much fun to drive after the tune.

txab · March 6, 2009

rufous,

You won't feel the full effect of the tune 'till you drink the Kool-aid, right Robert?

66nova · March 6, 2009

rufous,

You won't feel the full effect of the tune 'till you drink the Kool-aid, right Robert?

This is correct. Justin spikes it to make you think you have performance gains.

One other area of query at this point. My truck has a 3.73 rear end. My understanding is that a 3.42 would give better gas mileage. Is that correct? If so would it be possible to easily replace the 3.73 with a 3.42? What would that likely cost and how much better gas mileage would I likely get? I basically never tow anything so I think I would do well with a 3.42 rear end. What are your thoughts on that? Thanks so much, Brian.

I forgot to comment about this earlier. The gas mileage change would really depend on where you are driving (HWY vs Town) It might net you improved Hwy mileage, but it actually could decrease your in town mileage. Regardless whether or not it increased your mileage both in town or on the highway it would never pay for itself unless you kept your truck 10 years. A gear change will easily run your $500-1000 depending who does it. Plus the overall driveability will not be as enjoyable.

Jennabear · March 7, 2009

When going the mail order way, Justin will send you a set of questions for you to answer. If there are any that you don't know the answer to, he will do as he feels best.

rufous · March 7, 2009

66Nova, I hear you and appreciate your input and advice, but the problem is that I do not entirely know what is possible. I may go to the expense of having him tune it to such and such specs and then later learn that gee whiz I should have had him do this or that differently. I am trying to learn from you all who have gone down this road before and get some input on exactly what I should have him do. Brian.

66nova · March 7, 2009

When going the mail order way, Justin will send you a set of questions for you to answer. If there are any that you don't know the answer to, he will do as he feels best.

66Nova, I hear you and appreciate your input and advice, but the problem is that I do not entirely know what is possible. I may go to the expense of having him tune it to such and such specs and then later learn that gee whiz I should have had him do this or that differently. I am trying to learn from you all who have gone down this road before and get some input on exactly what I should have him do. Brian.

I got you man. I was in the same boat before my tune. I did quite a bit of research and found I will turn it over to Justin. The point I was trying to make earlier is Justin will ask questions to try to get an idea of your driving style, do you tow, do you want a "race mode", what octane do you want to run (the 93 octane tune is great by the way), etc. He will decide what needs to be adjusted. There are too many parameters for most of us to try to make those decisions. As far as the expense... remember, free retunes. It is so easy to change out the modules and once the crank relearn is done, its done. It's not needed again.

Tell him...I want increase driveability. I hate the delay when I try to pass someone. I would like more mileage. I tow a X,000lb trailer. I do/don't plan on hotrodding it. Etc,etc, etc. He's good at what he does. You won't be disappointed

Edit: You can also have him adjust the AFM where it stays on longer...hopefully increasing mileage.