Is All This Fair To Ford?

unit731 · June 4, 2009

Article:

Chrysler and GM now have all/most of their debt removed. By the government, no less. Is this fair to Ford?

Ford didn't take any government money. Ford had negotiated better terms for debt and loans. But those debt and loans are still there.

Chrysler and GM have little/no debt. Ford has debt.

Is this a level playing field?

OK. Some don't like Fords. But that is not the question here. Is Ford going to be 'punished' now for doing things correctly? Is the cost to build a Ford vehicle going to be higher than current Chrysler and GM? Is Ford at a disadvantage for managing their company better than Chrysler and GM?

The question: Is this a level (fair) playing field for Chrysler, GM, AND Ford?

Wingnut · June 4, 2009

I don't think it'll hurt them much. Hell, they can market the hell out of that fact and probably grow their market share.

Besides...Did it hurt GM and Ford when Chrysler got help a few years ago? Nope. Chrysler turned it around too.

Did SouthWest Airlines feel the pain and get screwed when all the other airlines were going bonkers and getting bailed out? Nope. SWA is pretty much the only airline that turned a PROFIT in Q4 2001. Last time I checked, they'd never laid off a single employee either. Smart company, run by smart people that care. Good stock to buy usually too. If it gets high, they split it to keep it cheap.

Is it unfair? Yeah...Probably. But life isn't fair. Wear a helmet.

Roofer · June 4, 2009

Being the entire company's are being "re-installed", and everyone's wages are changed, I really think there will be an advantage for them over Ford.

Ford's debt is bought up easily by people in the "background", so maybe they don't have to worry too much.

I'm sure they will play some words on it for sales, but they will wait till their competitors are at least back on their feet. No fun kicking your only possible competitors when they are down. Just makes you look bad.

Stevens03 · June 4, 2009

Is Bankruptcy fair for anyone? We're all paying for their miss managed mistakes and inappropriate decisions of spending. We'll be paying Higher taxes soon to recover the money being shelled out, We're already seeing what the credit card companies are doing to good people as well as credit challenged people.

I have a credit card that was 8.9%... I keep it for emergencies. Zero Balance on it right now, and never have I been late on a payment, recent check of my credit rating was 740 and still, I got a letter in the mail yesterday they are raising my interest rate on the card to 14.9%. Why the hell did I get punished!?!?!?!?

I'll tell you why. Because assholes with bad credit, living on the edge, who don't care what their credit rating is... got slammed with 25-35% interest, and they decided NOT to pay their credit cards anymore. Now the credit card companies have to make that loss of income up somehow, so they also slam people who actually care about paying their bills.

People steel, and it hurts the regular consumer by paying higher prices to make up for it.

People don't pay credit cards back, so others pay more in interest if we continue to use their cards.

People file bankruptcy on their debt, and we have to pick up the slack.

GM/Chrysler miss managed, so we'll be paying more for cars.

Government bailed out the banks, so we'll be paying more taxes

Government bailed out GM/Chrysler, so we'll be paying more in taxes

Seriously this country is in bad shape. And until people take responsibility for their own mistakes, it's just going to keep getting worse.

I say good for Ford for being financially responsible.

fbachman · June 4, 2009

Is Bankruptcy fair for anyone? We're all paying for their miss managed mistakes and inappropriate decisions of spending. We'll be paying Higher taxes soon to recover the money being shelled out, We're already seeing what the credit card companies are doing to good people as well as credit challenged people.

I have a credit card that was 8.9%... I keep it for emergencies. Zero Balance on it right now, and never have I been late on a payment, recent check of my credit rating was 740 and still, I got a letter in the mail yesterday they are raising my interest rate on the card to 14.9%. Why the hell did I get punished!?!?!?!?

I'll tell you why. Because assholes with bad credit, living on the edge, who don't care what their credit rating is... got slammed with 25-35% interest, and they decided NOT to pay their credit cards anymore. Now the credit card companies have to make that loss of income up somehow, so they also slam people who actually care about paying their bills.

People steel, and it hurts the regular consumer by paying higher prices to make up for it.

People don't pay credit cards back, so others pay more in interest if we continue to use their cards.

People file bankruptcy on their debt, and we have to pick up the slack.

GM/Chrysler miss managed, so we'll be paying more for cars.

Government bailed out the banks, so we'll be paying more taxes

Government bailed out GM/Chrysler, so we'll be paying more in taxes

Seriously this country is in bad shape. And until people take responsibility for their own mistakes, it's just going to keep getting worse.

I say good for Ford for being financially responsible.

Personal responsibility? what's that?

Stevens03 · June 4, 2009

Guess its hard for some people to understand that. Maybe they were never taught.

asilverblazer · June 4, 2009

I say good for Ford for being financially responsible.

And this is the one and only reason I would consider Ford over GM. By making one decision to leverage the whole company for loans in the private sector they have managed to stave off bankruptcy, I hope they can stay healthy enough to repay those loans. Or they will be in the same boat as GM and Chrysler.

bell_man · June 4, 2009

Article:

LINK

Chrysler and GM now have all/most of their debt removed. By the government, no less. Is this fair to Ford?

Ford didn't take any government money. Ford had negotiated better terms for debt and loans. But those debt and loans are still there.

Chrysler and GM have little/no debt. Ford has debt.

Is this a level playing field?

OK. Some don't like Fords. But that is not the question here. Is Ford going to be 'punished' now for doing things correctly? Is the cost to build a Ford vehicle going to be higher than current Chrysler and GM? Is Ford at a disadvantage for managing their company better than Chrysler and GM?

The question: Is this a level (fair) playing field for Chrysler, GM, AND Ford?

Fair is where you get funnel cakes. There never is a level playing field is just the way life is.

scottmoyer · June 4, 2009

Ford didn't play anything smart here. They started restructuring back in 2006 because they had to starting with the announcement of 14 factory closings and the layoff of 30k plus employees. They were on the verge of bankruptcy then. They were in the same boat as GM. GM had a higher market share than Ford in 2006. GM was able to hold off longer than Ford in hopes that the economy would turn around. It was not GM or Chrysler that brought gas to $4/gallon. GM has more SUVs and trucks on the road than Ford does and they were impacted greater with resale and new truck sales. Ford got lucky that they HAD to restructure 2+ years ago. That put them in a better position to handle the 2008 economy. They already had their restructuring plan in the works for 2 years while GM and Chrysler started in late 2007 and got hit by a crashing economy.

fbachman · June 4, 2009

Ford didn't play anything smart here. They started restructuring back in 2006 because they had to starting with the announcement of 14 factory closings and the layoff of 30k plus employees. They were on the verge of bankruptcy then. They were in the same boat as GM. GM had a higher market share than Ford in 2006. GM was able to hold off longer than Ford in hopes that the economy would turn around. It was not GM or Chrysler that brought gas to $4/gallon. GM has more SUVs and trucks on the road than Ford does and they were impacted greater with resale and new truck sales. Ford got lucky that they HAD to restructure 2+ years ago. That put them in a better position to handle the 2008 economy. They already had their restructuring plan in the works for 2 years while GM and Chrysler started in late 2007 and got hit by a crashing economy.

Most analysts, and Ford as well, have already indicated that if FS truck sales don't pick up signficantly by Q4, they will be needing cash influxes as well.

Ford even concedes that, at this moment, they don't see enough of a turn-around coming to stay above water.

They went "all-in" with the new F150. They may have saved themselves some time with the leveraging and early re-structuring, but most who analyze this stuff say it is just a matter of time for them as well..... unfortunately. NO ONE could have predicted the bottom falling out as bad as it did, and have sales cratering 40+% virtually overnight.

To be fair, I don't know of too many businesses (that operate with cut-throat competition and razor thin margins) could stomach losing 40% of their sales overnight, preceded by a massive spike in gas prices like we saw. Energy affected everyone, but it had a VERY DIRECT affect on the auto industry.

P71_CrownVic · June 5, 2009

The question: Is this a level (fair) playing field for Chrysler, GM, AND Ford?

Hey...Ford on their own...went out and did their own thing. They borrowed $25 Billion in 2005, mortgaged everything.

They are scared now because GM and Chrysler are debt free. Well...tough luck.

P71_CrownVic · June 5, 2009

Ford even concedes that, at this moment, they don't see enough of a turn-around coming to stay above water.

Big Al has a different viewpoint. He foolishly believes that the market will recover this year.

He is a blind optimist.

Linky!

fbachman · June 5, 2009

Ford even concedes that, at this moment, they don't see enough of a turn-around coming to stay above water.

Big Al has a different viewpoint. He foolishly believes that the market will recover this year.

He is a blind optimist.

Linky!

well, who knows? I HOPE he's right. I sure as heck can't forsee the future, much less what I am going to do tomorrow.

somehow, however, I don't see how. I mean, if he considers 35% off last years number as being "recovered" as opposed to 45% off last year's numbers.....you know, the 'ol CEO-speak bovine excrement.

I WILL say that his opinion is in DIRECT CONTRAST to all of those lame, bummer, analysts out there...

fbachman · June 5, 2009

The question: Is this a level (fair) playing field for Chrysler, GM, AND Ford?

Hey...Ford on their own...went out and did their own thing. They borrowed $25 Billion in 2005, mortgaged everything.

They are scared now because GM and Chrysler are debt free. Well...tough luck.

for whom... Ford or the tax-payers?

Well, if they go into sphyncter mode later this year, they will go to Uncle Sam. Uncle Sam will be hard-pressed to tell them NO when they were so #$%^ willing to help the other 2...

P71_CrownVic · June 5, 2009

The question: Is this a level (fair) playing field for Chrysler, GM, AND Ford?

Hey...Ford on their own...went out and did their own thing. They borrowed $25 Billion in 2005, mortgaged everything.

They are scared now because GM and Chrysler are debt free. Well...tough luck.

for whom... Ford or the tax-payers?

Well, if they go into sphyncter mode later this year, they will go to Uncle Sam. Uncle Sam will be hard-pressed to tell them NO when they were so #$%^ willing to help the other 2...

Ford.

In fact, Ford has said...under oath I believe, that if GM and Chrysler go C11, they will be forced to as well.