Broke ....

00Silverado4x4 · October 27, 2011

The simple fact here is, like a lot of people now-a-days, the OP started a thread, asking opinions and when they didn't line up with what he believed was the truth, or correct, then they were questioned as it must be wrong, right?

And people expect help and answers on these forums from qualified people. Wonder why there isn't many around anymore..........

wavery · October 27, 2011

Well I can tell u welding my issue isn't going to be that easy or cheap.. I had multiple people look at it and they all said the same thing.. I don't get why everyone says u can weld on these frames when it states that you are not.suppose to.. its not safe. Id rather pay the 4000 and have gm do it and do it right .. the lift is staying on also, they aren't removing it. And if something goes wrong down the road they will be obligated to replacefix because that's gms name on the work.. I got lucky that my mechanic knows the guy and was able to get my frame paid for... not just anyone can wall in and get a frame paid for... even though im getting railed on the labor costs ayleast I don't I have to pay for both frame +labor.. im in a big.dilemma and there is no easy way.. easy way for me is bite the bullet and get a new frame replaced by pros .. simple I guess.

The "Not safe" part goes back to my earlier post.

Any time that you repair a frame you take the chance of altering the "Crumple zone". The vehicle is specifically designed so that if you are in a front-end collision, the frame will collapse in such a way that will be the least likely to cause injury to the occupants. Once someone changes those dynamics by welding and/or reinforcing the frame, the chances of an injury from a serious accident increases because that crumple zone has been altered. That's why I stated that it may be difficult to find a professional that wants to accept that risk in lieu of financial compensation.

Now days, a lot of vehicles with frame damage are totaled. They then get a "Salvage title". This releases the manufacturer, repair shops and insurance companies from any liability due to any further accidents where the vehicle does not protect the occupants in the case of an injury accident. The new buyer accepts the knowledge that the vehicle has been a total loss and they wave their right to sue others for injury or death that resulted from driving a vehicle with a "Salvage title" (potentially unsafe).

This is also the reason that I suggested that you run a CarFax report. There is a possibility that others may be liable for defrauding you and should either be totally or partially responsible for making this vehicle right if it should have been totaled.

One would think that a simple waiver might take care of any issues but I'm not a lawyer. When I was Service Manager, I would have recommended the same course of action that you were recommended. That Service Manager and Factory Rep are Agents of the manufacturer. There is no way in heck that they would recommend welding that frame. They would be fired if they did. The implications to the manufacturer would be huge if someone were injured or killed in that vehicle 10-years from now.

bgdeer1 · October 27, 2011

The simple fact here is, like a lot of people now-a-days, the OP started a thread, asking opinions and when they didn't line up with what he believed was the truth, or correct, then they were questioned as it must be wrong, right?

And people expect help and answers on these forums from qualified people. Wonder why there isn't many around anymore..........

Ok listen here.. your not the one with this truck.. your sitting on the other end of a computer screen. U have no clue what's going on exactly u just have an idea.. don't sit here and insult me. I had a problem came here for opinions. If I wanted some ass hole to be rude I woulda asked. Leave the remarks to people you know .

mhenshaw · October 27, 2011

The simple fact here is, like a lot of people now-a-days, the OP started a thread, asking opinions and when they didn't line up with what he believed was the truth, or correct, then they were questioned as it must be wrong, right?

And people expect help and answers on these forums from qualified people. Wonder why there isn't many around anymore..........

Ok listen here.. your not the one with this truck.. your sitting on the other end of a computer screen. U have no clue what's going on exactly u just have an idea.. don't sit here and insult me. I had a problem came here for opinions. If I wanted some ass hole to be rude I woulda asked. Leave the remarks to people you know .

Im pretty sure ChevyTech77 was on your side. He was stating you asked for our opionions and since you didn't take our advice that we are questioning you and saying you are wrong to get a new frame over welding your old one.

I think this is a heated topic because most guys on here couldn't imagine spending 4000 dollars out of pocket. We would TRY to find another option like claiming insurance, totaling the truck, or welding it. Personally I would take it to a 4wd shop and pay for a straight axle front end and have them fix the frame while they are welding in new Dyna 44 then you could go as big of a lift as you wanted and have a custom truck as well. The 4000 dollars would be spent doing something cool.

ChevyTech77 · October 27, 2011

Ok listen here.. your not the one with this truck.. your sitting on the other end of a computer screen. U have no clue what's going on exactly u just have an idea.. don't sit here and insult me. I had a problem came here for opinions. If I wanted some ass hole to be rude I woulda asked. Leave the remarks to people you know .

Point proven.

07 CC Sierra · October 27, 2011

"Well I can tell u welding my issue isn't going to be that easy or cheap.. I had multiple people look at it and they all said the same thing.. "

Fair enough.

"I don't get why everyone says u can weld on these frames when it states that you are not.suppose to.. its not safe."

Where did you find it "stated" that you cannot weld on the frame? Your first statement sounded like welding is a plausible option just not cheap. Then you say you specifically you can't because of safety. If welding wasn't safe then how are these frame welded in the first place (yes there are welds on your frame from the factory.) I find it hard to believe that these frames have never been "repaired" by GM or any other repair facility. If an insurance company can "straighten" a bent frame, which cause significant weakness in material, then welding, which is an actual fabrication/repair procedure, should not be a problem, just costly in your case.

Its just one big f@#$in problem... im in such a position the only right thing to do is pay the bucks on a new frame.. im sure gm will take care of me.. they were nice enough to pay for the frame im sure they will do the right thing. the lady from gm explained that the they might run into parts that need to be replaced, I just said make it right.. do what u gotta do.. should be done Tuesday Wednesday next week.

From what I've read throughout this thread from qualified, experienced people, your labor costs are mostly likely paying for a good chunk of that frame.

cparks555 · October 27, 2011

You have to drive this truck on a daily basis, so if a new frame makes you feel more comfortable than welding then have it done and put this mess behind you man. Everyone is just trying to help you save some $, but you got to do what you got to do.

txab · October 27, 2011

The simple fact here is, like a lot of people now-a-days, the OP started a thread, asking opinions and when they didn't line up with what he believed was the truth, or correct, then they were questioned as it must be wrong, right?

And people expect help and answers on these forums from qualified people. Wonder why there isn't many around anymore..........

Ok listen here.. your not the one with this truck.. your sitting on the other end of a computer screen. U have no clue what's going on exactly u just have an idea.. don't sit here and insult me. I had a problem came here for opinions. If I wanted some ass hole to be rude I woulda asked. Leave the remarks to people you know .

I think somebody is overdue for a timeout.

wavery · October 27, 2011

This has got to be a terribly stressful situation for this guy. This obviously isn't his field and he has to take the best advise that he can. Relying on experts should out-weigh relying on an internet chat-room.

He explored his options and made a decision..... gotta respect that.

Still think that he may have gotten screwed in the original deal though. That has to be adding to the stress.

I think if I were him, I'd turn off the computer until after the job is done....

fatalwishes · October 27, 2011

I'm late to this party.......

I would have had it welded. 400.00 and a case of beer would have nailed down a competent welder for this job.

jdubya · October 27, 2011

I just have to say being a welding engineer for a Tier one supplier that builds frames for everybody but GM..... The steel is hydro-formed but it isn't any kind of "special steel". Yes, it is higher strength than mild steel but these frames are welded with an ER70S-3 wire electrode and that is the same electrode used in most muffler shops just to compare. Typically the steel used is a Hot rolled high strength but is totally safe to weld with a standard method and welding apparatus.

On the other hand, if GM gives you this frame are they making it mandatory that a GM dealership does the labor? I only ask because I'm willing to bet that there are several collision shops that will do it for less.

Learn something new everyday

Sounds like your welder doesn't want to touch your truck. So if it was me I would go to another welder. And I don't see why you would have to pull the motor to weld that part. I have seen guys crawl into the most cramp places to weld pipes and half the time they can't even see their welds.

All you have to do is throw a blanket over your motor. Grind the weld areas clean. Clamp the pieces in place and weld.

+1

Sounds like you already made up your mind, nothing more anyone else can say to change it. Good luck to you. I'm out...

00Silverado4x4 · October 28, 2011

"The "Not safe" part goes back to my earlier post.

Any time that you repair a frame you take the chance of altering the "Crumple zone". The vehicle is specifically designed so that if you are in a front-end collision, the frame will collapse in such a way that will be the least likely to cause injury to the occupants. Once someone changes those dynamics by welding and/or reinforcing the frame, the chances of an injury from a serious accident increases because that crumple zone has been altered. That's why I stated that it may be difficult to find a professional that wants to accept that risk in lieu of financial compensation. "

Since I'm not a certified anything, except for being a nut case at times, I have a question to you wavery. Is the frame of these trucks actually designed to crumple on impact? I'm not doubting your word just kind of surprising to hear. I understand the crumple zone logic, especially on the unibody vehicles but I didn't think a solid frame like this would be meant to also crumple. My thoughts behind this in based on what these vehicles were intended to do (tow/haul/off-road, etc), woud seem to allow for "weak" points to be designed into this structure?

wavery · October 28, 2011

"The "Not safe" part goes back to my earlier post.

Any time that you repair a frame you take the chance of altering the "Crumple zone". The vehicle is specifically designed so that if you are in a front-end collision, the frame will collapse in such a way that will be the least likely to cause injury to the occupants. Once someone changes those dynamics by welding and/or reinforcing the frame, the chances of an injury from a serious accident increases because that crumple zone has been altered. That's why I stated that it may be difficult to find a professional that wants to accept that risk in lieu of financial compensation. "

Since I'm not a certified anything, except for being a nut case at times, I have a question to you wavery. Is the frame of these trucks actually designed to crumple on impact? I'm not doubting your word just kind of surprising to hear. I understand the crumple zone logic, especially on the unibody vehicles but I didn't think a solid frame like this would be meant to also crumple. My thoughts behind this in based on what these vehicles were intended to do (tow/haul/off-road, etc), woud seem to allow for "weak" points to be designed into this structure?

Every vehicle is tested for front (and other) impact safety. The vehicles are then rated.

The vehicle must pass a certain minimum rating.

The crumple zone isn't a weakness by any means. It is a design technique that accounts for the front end to collapse in a particular way that affords optimum protection to the passengers. If you look at your frame, you will see odd looking bends and angles that don't seem to serve a real purpose. Those bends and angles are designed so that the front end crushes to absorb the shock without crushing so far that the engine enters the cab and/or the cab is not crushed by the truck bed.

In the old days, they built frames like they build tanks. The idea was "Strength" was everything. Today's technology allows for certain (light-weight) high-tech alloys and designs that are designed to "Absorb" impact instead of resiting impact. The result may get you a truck that is crushed to smithereens in an impact but hopefully the passengers survive.

Gee....... I could have saved myself a lot of typing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumple_zone

BTW...... this technology is for the manufacturing of the vehicle. There is no law saying that an owner of a vehicle may not alter that vehicle. It's your vehicle.... you can do anything that you want to it. Although doing so, removes any responsibility that a manufacturer may have for injuries or death following a serious collision.

The risk comes in when a "Professional" starts making changes to the vehicle and charges the customer for those changes (especially a certified dealer). I don't know that it has ever been challenged in a courtroom but I certainly wouldn't want to be the 1st. I think the chances of that happening are about the same as the lottery. Like I said...... I would weld it on my own truck but I wouldn't do it on someone else's for any amount of money.

frdfandc · October 30, 2011

Good to see that your getting this rectified. However, I'd ask the Service Department to see how many hours the Labor Time guide pays for a frame replacement. Labor time guides are usually 1.5 times the posted labor rate in the book.

Even if the shop's customer pay labor rate was $100/hr, they are charging you probably 38 hrs of labor plus fluids. Very,very steep. Make sure that included in the fluids, that they are including a large tube of Astroglide.

TexasAl · October 30, 2011

The simple fact here is, like a lot of people now-a-days, the OP started a thread, asking opinions and when they didn't line up with what he believed was the truth, or correct, then they were questioned as it must be wrong, right?

And people expect help and answers on these forums from qualified people. Wonder why there isn't many around anymore..........

I totally agree. This thread has been interesting, but the OP has totally ignored the advise of almost everybody here. That is just too bad, but hey, it is his money. I wonder how those people that fabricate offroad Jeeps do it to make it through the toughest terrains in the world without welding on the frame on this special metal. Judging from the latest post from the OP, the dealer has a blank check, so the truck should be as good as new, after they fix all the things they will most likely break or put back on incorrectly. No worries, I'm sure they will make it right on his dime.