6.0 vs Dmax General Performance

pcf · February 26, 2015

I really don't get the improved resale of diesel line of thinking. Paying $6-8000 more up front for $6-8000 higher resale, doesn't equate to improved in my book. The truck still depreciates at the same rate. Looking at KBB or NADA, the diesel is only worth $5-6000 extra at trade in. When I worked at Manheim, diesel pickups weren't commanding any special premiums at auction. If your a dealer or private party selling a diesel there's a small premium, if you're trading in, you're probably going to get hosed.

When people say improved resale, I think of a Toyota Tundra (ALG 5-star) vs Ram 1500 (ALG 2 star). They can cost the same up front but in 5 years one will be worth 5-6000 more. Or comparing a Chevy 2500HD to an F250.

SMiller · February 27, 2015

Have fun replacing the entire fuel system (CP4.2) and dealing with all the emissions issues on the Duramax, might throw in so head gaskets and gelling issues too...

I will take the gutless/fuel pig 6.0 all day, it will go 300,000+ miles with shitty oil changes and tons of abuse, that is a fact!

Hockeylover86 · August 9, 2015

I really don't get the improved resale of diesel line of thinking. Paying $6-8000 more up front for $6-8000 higher resale, doesn't equate to improved in my book. The truck still depreciates at the same rate. Looking at KBB or NADA, the diesel is only worth $5-6000 extra at trade in. When I worked at Manheim, diesel pickups weren't commanding any special premiums at auction. If your a dealer or private party selling a diesel there's a small premium, if you're trading in, you're probably going to get hosed.

When people say improved resale, I think of a Toyota Tundra (ALG 5-star) vs Ram 1500 (ALG 2 star). They can cost the same up front but in 5 years one will be worth 5-6000 more. Or comparing a Chevy 2500HD to an F250.

I think its only valid for special conditions.

For example, I have a low-mile (26k miles) 07 LBZ that I use only in summers for the camper, it is probably worth $15k+ more than the 6.0 equivalent.

That, however, is driven by being the last year without DPF/SCR.

Cowpie · August 9, 2015

And one thing that gets overlooked about resale values, is the market that the vehicle is being sold in. The area of the country and the typical buyer in that market. It is very myopic to equate a particular resale value of a particular vehicle/engine combination across the entire spectrum. if one lives in a market where diesel is highly sought after, they are going to have better resale values than in another market. This same methodology goes for any vehicle made.

An example from another market. Commercial semi trucks. For the over the road market, the high rise type of sleeper trucks rule the roost. But on resale, again depending on market, you can take a serious hit on resale. Many of the buyers of used OTR trucks tend to be local or regional users. Those folks need a mid roof design to get in under grain elevator chutes or operate in low clearance locations. So the mid roof design, while not as popular with the OTR crowd, is king when it comes time for resale. So the smart truck buyer will get a mid roof design with a removable fairing on top for aerodynamic concerns. At resale, it can fit well into most any market for used semi trucks and maximize resale value.

If one lives in a market that has a high demand for diesels in pickups, then there will generally be good resale values. The opposite situation, mediocre resale values. Just the diesel in a pickup does not guarantee a better resale value. At least above the level of the cost difference between gas and diesel to begin with, like pcf stated. For diesel to have a "better" resale value, the spread between the gas version and the diesel version would have to be greater than the initial cost spread. Otherwise, it just has an equivalent resale value with the same value spread that it started out with. And then you also have not only factor in the number of perspective buyers, but also the number of used diesels in relation to that. A high level of used diesel pickups, and only a few potential buyers, and resale value will tank considerably. And timing is everything. When diesel fuel hit $5 a gallon a few years ago, you almost couldn't give away a diesel equipped vehicle.

And that is just the general market perspective. A very well maintained 6.0 2500 is going to have a better retained value than a beat up Dmax equipped 2500. That is the key.... retained value.

SMiller · August 9, 2015

I sure missed my 6.0 yesterday when my Duramax went into limp mode and would only get up to 30mph after a couple minutes.

Rollhard95 · August 10, 2015

Ok guys I have heard that the 16' 2500hd are getting a 8 speed tranny does anyone know if that is true? I have been thinking about upgrading my 14' Sierra 1500 SLT for a 2500hd crewcab 6.0L SLT. I'm wondering if I should wait for the 8 speed or buy this year and take advantage of the end of year prices on 15's. I have ruled out a dmax because I don't haul over 10,000lbs and don't want to pay the extra $$ money for a diesel. Plus I live pretty close to work about 4 miles round trip a day.

SMiller · August 10, 2015

Ok guys I have heard that the 16' 2500hd are getting a 8 speed tranny does anyone know if that is true? I have been thinking about upgrading my 14' Sierra 1500 SLT for a 2500hd crewcab 6.0L SLT. I'm wondering if I should wait for the 8 speed or buy this year and take advantage of the end of year prices on 15's. I have ruled out a dmax because I don't haul over 10,000lbs and don't want to pay the extra $$ money for a diesel. Plus I live pretty close to work about 4 miles round trip a day.

Not true, drive train is a complete carryover, only slight change is the hydro-power steering and don't know the exact change.

JRKRACE · August 10, 2015

I sure missed my 6.0 yesterday when my Duramax went into limp mode and would only get up to 30mph after a couple minutes.

Why don't you trade it in for a gasser? It's pretty obvious that you really aren't happy with what you have.....Life's too short....

SMiller · August 11, 2015

Why don't you trade it in for a gasser? It's pretty obvious that you really aren't happy with what you have.....Life's too short....

Lol, I have both.

I am going to order a '16 3500 but hate to make the decision again as the 6.0 is a thirsty pig but the LML is a head gasket, CP4, emissions problem motor. I think with full deletes and CP3 conversion you have something but then you have stupid money wrapped up in it, makes me want to just get another 6.0 and keep throwing gas at it and listen to it lug as at least I know it will never go down on me.

Cowpie · August 11, 2015

No telling how long it will last, but with diesel at or below gas prices in many areas, diesel could be more cost effective even with the potential problems. Now if I went out and traded for a diesel, with my luck, diesel would go above $5 a gallon like it did a few years ago.

KMGZ400 · August 11, 2015

Lol, I have both.

I am going to order a '16 3500 but hate to make the decision again as the 6.0 is a thirsty pig but the LML is a head gasket, CP4, emissions problem motor. I think with full deletes and CP3 conversion you have something but then you have stupid money wrapped up in it, makes me want to just get another 6.0 and keep throwing gas at it and listen to it lug as at least I know it will never go down on me.

Good filtration by running a lift pump and running a micron 2 fuel filter greatly helps the life of the CP3

Cowpie · August 12, 2015

2 micron is cool, until winter and any sort of biodiesel blend. Lift pump will not help in that situation. Depending on where one gets their fuel, most major fuel areas, especially truck stops, are blending up various levels of biodiesel nowadays. Not a problem in warm weather, but one better be prepared in cold weather for problems if one is running such a tight filter. My Detroit 60 calls for a 7 micron, but during winter, I have only avoided any filter issues by going up to a 15. Same thing with my previous Cummins. Sad that we have to go to such extremes with diesel motors. Things were so much simpler prior to the 21st century.

If it were practical for my commercial operation, my next semi truck purchase would be CNG or LNG and get away from diesel altogether. Just not realistic in the near future. It is working great for some local P&D or regional stuff.

SMiller · August 12, 2015

Good filtration by running a lift pump and running a micron 2 fuel filter greatly helps the life of the CP3

Duramax runs the CP4 and NOTHING has helped them survive, not a Fass, Cat filter, clean fuel, or fuel additives, they all seem to die and wipe out the entire fuel system including injectors...

Cowpie · August 12, 2015

What seems to be doing it? Can't be lubricity, even with ULSD, since just a simple 2% bio blend will raise lubricity to the older LSD levels. Is it purely the mechanical design?

SMiller · August 13, 2015

What seems to be doing it? Can't be lubricity, even with ULSD, since just a simple 2% bio blend will raise lubricity to the older LSD levels. Is it purely the mechanical design?

Water

CP4 cannot handle ANY water at all and will eat itself alive and send all metal downstream. The kicker is that even everyone running Fass/Cat filters (water seperator) are still eating pumps.

FYI this is a $14,000 repair at the dealer and Ford and GM love to deny coverage as they will claim it was bad fuel.

I am NOT and Duramax hater, I simply tell it like it is. I would love to order a new LML and throw 7k aside to fix it right and run it hard but I won't do it.