Who would get the V6 instead of the V8 if the MPG were better?

[Silverado Steve]

I personally dont care what people buy. Like I said before 90% of trucks Ive seen on the road and probably on this forum require nothing more than a v6, due to their true use. Which is fine if you want more buy it, its a free country. We all splurge on things. The fact remains the V6 is cheaper to buy and cheaper on gas, how much or how less is up in the air I guess. But to say the V6 is not a legitmate engine with over 300hp and torque in a half ton is rediculous. And look Ford gear heads said the same thing with the egoboost 3 years ago, and now it accounts for 60% of sales, granted the ego is not just an ordinary V6.

 

You realize according to your sites, luxury purchases on GM trucks was only 11%,with the highest being ford at 25%, so the person you responded to was right.

 

I'm starting to think you have a reading comprehension problem Nards. Brian said a small number of people buy a truck over $50K...he didn't say GM or the like to which I clearly showed that more people buy high end trucks than V-6 trucks....period..dot

 

You say "The fact remains the V6 is cheaper to buy and cheaper on gas, how much or how less is up in the air I guess." This seems to be the main point of your argument, yet it's not clearly the case.

 

And really, you are going to start using the Ecoboost as a V-6 example of the success of a V6 in the full size? Really, when last years ecobbost put out more power and torque than the Coyoye 5.0? That's not the discussion at hand.....the discussion is the 4.3. If the 4.3 output as much power as the 5.3, then we would have something, and yes, in terms of power to weight ratio, with our trucks close to 6,000 pounds, Yes, an Engine pushing over 300hp and 300lbs torque would be preferred, to which the 4..3 while close is not. Read the complaints of the last Gen 5.3 feeling underpowered by some.

[Silverado Steve]

I like how the people in favor of the current V-6 keep arguing the point that the V6 makes sense in terms of economy, yet it's been proven the mpg between the 5.3 and 4.3 is nill (thanks pickuptrucks.com)....the same couple of posters keep making fictitious statements that aren't supported, like a $3K price difference between a V6 and V8??? I prefer to show the real difference in terms of resale and. the response from that crowd..... crickets....Again I will post tests with MPG figures between the 2 trucks that show the MPG differences aren't that signficant. Notice they used a smaller extra cab 4.3 truck with a higher gear ratio, yet used a Crew 5.3 with 3.42 gears. What say you Nards, Brian and PMattras?

 

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/03/the-test-at-davis-dam-2014-chevy-silverado-1500s.html

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2013-light-duty-challenge-mileage-drive.html

 

the original topic was would you get the v6 over the v8 if the mpg were better. i think most everyone would, depending on the mpg. if it were 20-30mpg BETTER, you'd save thousands a year. With the savings you could buy two trucks.

 

The issue is the difference in MPG is almost nil, so any savings would be wasted or lost in resale. Not to mention if something popped up and you had to actually tow something larger than 3k lbs. i had a 9k lb trailer being towed by a 3/4 diesel that got a flat, so i towed the trailer while he was on a gimpy spare until it could be replaced. you may only tow a boat or uhaul trailer, but sometimes there are emergencies that you need that extra power for and you didn't plan on it when you purchased. same goes for 4x4.

 

i think the idea of this thread is how much are you willing to pay to go to a v8 over a v6. 2k today might turn into 40k over 10 years, but i think the numbers are much closer since the mpg isn't so far apart. i'm big into calculating long term savings, so if i saved enough to pay for the truck, its a no brainer.

[redwngr]

I WANT to drive an SLT. V6 is not available.

[redwngr]

 

First the 6.2l you drive, at least if it's 2014, has a 5.4 second 0-60 time that you paid over $10,000 to have.

 

For 2015 (since we can't order 14's anymore), if you're going to drive an SLT, it's $2995 to change the 5.3 to a 6.2 in a double cab.

That also gets the 8 speed instead of the 6spd.

[PMattras]

I like how the people in favor of the current V-6 keep arguing the point that the V6 makes sense in terms of economy, yet it's been proven the mpg between the 5.3 and 4.3 is nill (thanks pickuptrucks.com)....the same couple of posters keep making fictitious statements that aren't supported, like a $3K price difference between a V6 and V8??? I prefer to show the real difference in terms of resale and. the response from that crowd..... crickets....Again I will post tests with MPG figures between the 2 trucks that show the MPG differences aren't that signficant. Notice they used a smaller extra cab 4.3 truck with a higher gear ratio, yet used a Crew 5.3 with 3.42 gears. What say you Nards, Brian and PMattras?

 

Steve:

 

I agree with you the mpg difference between the V6 and V8 isn't much. I got a 5.3 for that reason. The V6 is still a good engine if you don't need the power etc.. The only saving is the upcharges, how it affects loans and a little fuel savings. They are not for everyone. But when you cut off two cylinders - why can't GM get better gas mileage with it. Is this by design for GM to sell more V8's? What would it take to get the V6 to get better MPG? Turbo? I had a straight six in my 1983 Chevy truck with automatic overdrive and this was a great truck. It had some limitations than a V8 but once you got adjusted to it, I didn't have any issues with it and did everything I wanted to do. A lot of the old school people can't live without a V8 even if they don't need it. Times are changing when you build lighter trucks and shave off a lot of weight. You have some big players like Ford and Ram putting in more V6's and try to change opinions with new and the younger generations about V6's. There is a very strong push to get better MPG. You are also seeing more V4 being put in big vehicles for the MPG. I don't have the answers and don't care what people get. All I see there are some big changes going on and I don't have a crystal ball on the future. Trucks are getting very expensive and it may push me out of this market in six years. There are so many nicer vehicles for the same price or less such as BMW etc.. I always had a truck because they were cheaper to buy at one time and always kept a good strong resale value and very handy.

[Brian S.]

 

 

 

I'm starting to think you have a reading comprehension problem Nards. Brian said a small number of people buy a truck over $50K...he didn't say GM or the like to which I clearly showed that more people buy high end trucks than V-6 trucks....period..dot

 

You say "The fact remains the V6 is cheaper to buy and cheaper on gas, how much or how less is up in the air I guess." This seems to be the main point of your argument, yet it's not clearly the case.

 

And really, you are going to start using the Ecoboost as a V-6 example of the success of a V6 in the full size? Really, when last years ecobbost put out more power and torque than the Coyoye 5.0? That's not the discussion at hand.....the discussion is the 4.3. If the 4.3 output as much power as the 5.3, then we would have something, and yes, in terms of power to weight ratio, with our trucks close to 6,000 pounds, Yes, an Engine pushing over 300hp and 300lbs torque would be preferred, to which the 4..3 while close is not. Read the complaints of the last Gen 5.3 feeling underpowered by some.

LOL

Talk about "cherry picking numbers".

 

I pull "about 10% of people here are buying $50K Denali type trucks" out of the air so you go look it up and say "Ha! LOOK! It's 11%!". Which is less than the 15% for the 4.3l you said was "No one is buying them!".

 

Then you pull this "It's GOTTA be 300hp/300lbs torque!" number out of the air. AFTER I showed you that 5.7l V8 owners in the 80s and 90s were NEVER over 300hp, often far below it. Boats weighed MORE in the 80s and 90s, not less. Also, even the most power 5.3l made last year was only 10% more powerful than the current 4.3l, and only on one of the two fuels the 4.3 burns.

 

Even on E10 the 4.3 has more than your 300lbs torque, so you are honestly quibbling about the 15hp less than 300hp? When as recent as 2006 the MOST hp you could get in a heavier Silverado was 295? A whole 10hp more?

 

I guess up until they crossed that magical "300hp" line, all V8 trucks were trying to keep up with bicycles.

 

And then there's your "The 5.3l will keep 50% of it's value in 5 years vs 45% for the 4.3 argument." Oh noes! On a $35,000 5.3l you'll get $17,500 on re-sale and you would only get $15,255 on the V6 that would cost $33,900 if that $1100 MSRP difference is the only difference you pay. So even with your numbers, which I don't think are true because I think you can make better deals on 4.3s due to lower demand, you throw out an $1145 depreciation difference over five years against this:

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-silverado-v-6-instrumented-test-review

 

 

 

We still averaged 16 miles per gallon, 3 mpg better than in the V-8.

(and even with the EPAs 1mpg difference for the 4wd models you would make up that $1100 pretty easily in 5 years)

 

This is your first V8? That's nice. I've been driving them since my dad bought me a 5.7l Camaro to drive in HS in 1980. I've owned seven V8 pick up trucks over the years, and have a pretty good idea how they performed and towed.

 

It was a lot like my 2014 4.3l V6, and that is my point in this whole thread:

 

You've got millions of guys like me who have been driving Chevy small block trucks over the years, and they don't know a different level of performance than what this truck offers.

 

The 4.8l guys had worse performance. The 5.7l guys could have had better towing depending on how they were geared, but they could have had worse too. The 5.3 guys, same situation.

 

And yet here you are Silverado Steve, trying to tell us with your one year of experience driving V8 pick up trucks that somehow this engine that offers pretty much the same hp and torque as we've all been driving for decades has "never been enough, it was close, but only by the new 5.3 are ye saved!".

 

Sorry chief- not buying what you're selling. Been towing around boats a long time with power pretty similar to what this thing has, it can be done.

[Brian S.]

 

Read the complaints of the last Gen 5.3 feeling underpowered by some.

Steve, YOUR truck is an underpowered slug compared to that guy Israims, and his is compared to the biggest turbo diesel.

 

You may have to accept the fact that not everyone wanted to be the same truck you did.

[Silverado Steve]

Pete,

 

I'm not going to keep going over and over the pros and cons of a V6. Yes, the current V6 has come a long way from 15 years ago, but guess what, so has the V8, which is probably far and away why the mpg and efficiency of both motors aren't that far apart. Second, I have mentioned it earlier, Newton's laws of physics still ring true. To move mass require power. I would surmise that it takes less initial power from the 5.3 to get the mass of a 1500 Silverado Crew Cab going and by butt dyno, most people who drive a V6 probably give a little more throttle to get it moving to their taste. Power to weight ratio still holds true. Also you ask why can't GM get more, again I believe that to be the fact GM isn't using an advanced transmission such as the RAM. I will agree with you that as trucks become lighter and advancement with engine technology becomes more developed, then yes at some point the V6 will more than likely become the primary power plant. At some point the weight of a full size crew cab will drop to perhaps 4800lbs at which point a V6 N/A engine putting out over 300 hp and 300lbs of torque will be more than abundant to power the vehicle....we're not there yet, not even close; we're limited by maintaining the strength of chassis while maintaining capability and using lighter materials that are rigid while keeping costs low.

 

 

I like how the people in favor of the current V-6 keep arguing the point that the V6 makes sense in terms of economy, yet it's been proven the mpg between the 5.3 and 4.3 is nill (thanks pickuptrucks.com)....the same couple of posters keep making fictitious statements that aren't supported, like a $3K price difference between a V6 and V8??? I prefer to show the real difference in terms of resale and. the response from that crowd..... crickets....Again I will post tests with MPG figures between the 2 trucks that show the MPG differences aren't that signficant. Notice they used a smaller extra cab 4.3 truck with a higher gear ratio, yet used a Crew 5.3 with 3.42 gears. What say you Nards, Brian and PMattras?

Steve:

I agree with you the mpg difference between the V6 and V8 isn't much. I got a 5.3 for that reason. The V6 is still a good engine if you don't need the power etc.. The only saving is the upcharges, how it affects loans and a little fuel savings. They are not for everyone. But when you cut off two cylinders - why can't GM get better gas mileage with it. Is this by design for GM to sell more V8's? What would it take to get the V6 to get better MPG? Turbo? I had a straight six in my 1983 Chevy truck with automatic overdrive and this was a great truck. It had some limitations than a V8 but once you got adjusted to it, I didn't have any issues with it and did everything I wanted to do. A lot of the old school people can't live without a V8 even if they don't need it. Times are changing when you build lighter trucks and shave off a lot of weight. You have some big players like Ford and Ram putting in more V6's and try to change opinions with new and the younger generations about V6's. There is a very strong push to get better MPG. You are also seeing more V4 being put in big vehicles for the MPG. I don't have the answers and don't care what people get. All I see there are some big changes going on and I don't have a crystal ball on the future. Trucks are getting very expensive and it may push me out of this market in six years. There are so many nicer vehicles for the same price or less such as BMW etc.. I always had a truck because they were cheaper to buy at one time and always kept a good strong resale value and very handy.

 

[Brian S.]

Steve, out of curiosity, what are you towing with your 5.3 that you are so glad you have that power?

[Imcrazy]

I guess I got the v6 mostly because my max budget was a certain amount and I preferred to have more features of the SLE model and the SLE preferred package than a V8 with less equipment. Also the dealers I talked to were more motivated to sell a V6. Because my truck is a lease resale doesn't really factor in as much although I might buy the truck. My next truck I may very well get a V8 but, I didn't get the V6 for fuel economy, even the published EPA estimates are practically the same between the V6 and V8.

[Silverado Steve]

Facepalm...facepalm....facepalm. Brian you are as dense as a wet loaf of bread. Ok, I can see that you are not as educated or read up on all that is trucks....so let me dive in.

 

First, you do realize that with the Chevy luxury truck, the High Country was brought to the market in January 2014, additionally, it is not a volume truck, meaning Chevy never produced it for mass market, it bridged the gap of the LTZ and gave Chevy buyers a Chevy option over the GMC Denali. The GMC Denali line was supposed to be the High end luxury line....much like the Escalade is the Full Size SUV line. What your missing as it sailed way over your head is that with the Denali, High Country, Ford Lariat, Platinum, Harley Davidson, Raptor and the RAM Big Horn, there are plenty of over $50K sales which make up 25% of truck sales. Now you want to say you said 10% of Chevy sales are over $50K originally...I must of missed that. You statement to Israim was "You represent a very small percent of people who spend over $50K on a truck" Well if 25% is small....then you are right amigo. This was your statement not mine right? Now you want to argue and cherry pick the 11% Chevy luxury trucks sales go ahead,you're really grasping at straws at this point. , The fact is the number of trucks sold over $50K out number the N/A V6 sales, nothing more nothing less. This proves that low cost is not the primary concern of the truck buyer. Having options is; redwngr said it best, you can't even get a 4.3 in an LTZ or SLT.....hmmm....maybe becasue GM knows someone buying a $50K truck doesn't want the bottom line engine....

 

"Even on E10 the 4.3 has more than your 300lbs torque, so you are honestly quibbling about the 15hp less than 300hp? When as recent as 2006 the MOST hp you could get in a heavier Silverado was 295? A whole 10hp more?"

 

That is the epitome of cherry picking data. Now your saying I can cruise around with E85 all day and that will solve my problem for HP? Well there goes your argument for efficiency right? 13 mpg's for the 4.3 that still has less power, torque and now mpg's of a 5.3...you are funny. Second why are you pulling 2006 figures, where is that 5.3 from 2006 at today? oh that's right. I don't buy a vehicle today based on specs from 8 years ago? 8 years ago I was driving a Crew Cab Toyota Tacoma with 236 hp and 266 pounds of torque that could tow 6K lbs, I never looked at a full-size becasue I knew better. It made no sense for me to buy a full size with mid size capability....which is the premise of my argument. Toyota's 4.0 V6 blew away the 4.3 in the Silverado, notice I bought the midsize for real efficiency which is the whole point of my argument and yours supposedly, I think.

 

"And then there's your "The 5.3l will keep 50% of it's value in 5 years vs 45% for the 4.3 argument." Oh noes! On a $35,000 5.3l you'll get $17,500 on re-sale and you would only get $15,255 on the V6 that would cost $33,900 if that $1100 MSRP difference is the only difference you pay. So even with your numbers, which I don't think are true because I think you can make better deals on 4.3s due to lower demand, you throw out an $1145 depreciation difference over five years against this"

 

This is the funniest statement of all......Classic, please do better than this...please, becasue your argument is dissolving with every keystroke you make.

I had to read this several times over, why? Because now even using your own numbers, the cost saving of the 4.3 is evaporated running your own example and your only response to this is......"you throw out an $1145 depreciation difference over five years against this"

Of course your free to post some real purchase numbers between the 2 trucks....I did, but I doubt you will becasue it will debunk your argument. Where is the saving now...mpg's nope......$1095 upcharge.....nope...shall we go for tires?? I'll give you one, oil changes, the 5.3 uses more oil.....let's debate the overall saving for the consumer on that.....lol

 

"You've got millions of guys like me who have been driving Chevy small block trucks over the years, and they don't know a different level of performance than what this truck offers"

 

This goes to further reinforce that people want more power and efficiency from a truck upgrade and not, "well the 4.3 matches what I had 8 year ago"....again your words not mine.....also backed by sales fact.

 

So let's sum this up....your whole argument is the 4.3 saves you money, to which you showed through your numbers via purchase price is no

MPG savings.....again, based on several tests conducted with statistical data.....nope

People will be happy with the HP today compared to the 5.7 they had back in 1995 or the 5.3 they had in 2004, or the 4.8 they had in 2009.....Sure, but those millions of folks will be more happy with the current 5.3 again 70% of 1500 sales are the 5.3

 

So what's your argument or point you're trying to make at this point other than your 4.3 works for you?? No one's debating that, I've always said, buy the truck you want. There have been many here who said they would never go with the 4.3 only the V8 and you try posting data that doesn't support any reason anyone should go with a V6 over a V8 other than personal preference, so now you are grasping straws and at this point you are making up stuff now becasue you are looking more foolish with every post. You bought your truck, good for you, but at the end of the day, your reasons to convince anyone here that the V6 is a deal is falling apart, so now you want to pit the 5.3 folks against the 6.2 folks, and those folks against diesel owners....laughable, a true sign of a defeated man, At the end of the day Brian, truck buyers don't skimp on the engine of a $40K-$50K truck and claim it's for economy purposes. No one buys a truck for economy...economy is a bonus, not a deal breaker.

 

This has been fun, but I'm done trying to explain the world is round. Peace!

 

 

 

LOL

Talk about "cherry picking numbers".

 

I pull "about 10% of people here are buying $50K Denali type trucks" out of the air so you go look it up and say "Ha! LOOK! It's 11%!". Which is less than the 15% for the 4.3l you said was "No one is buying them!".

 

Then you pull this "It's GOTTA be 300hp/300lbs torque!" number out of the air. AFTER I showed you that 5.7l V8 owners in the 80s and 90s were NEVER over 300hp, often far below it. Boats weighed MORE in the 80s and 90s, not less. Also, even the most power 5.3l made last year was only 10% more powerful than the current 4.3l, and only on one of the two fuels the 4.3 burns.

 

Even on E10 the 4.3 has more than your 300lbs torque, so you are honestly quibbling about the 15hp less than 300hp? When as recent as 2006 the MOST hp you could get in a heavier Silverado was 295? A whole 10hp more?

 

I guess up until they crossed that magical "300hp" line, all V8 trucks were trying to keep up with bicycles.

 

And then there's your "The 5.3l will keep 50% of it's value in 5 years vs 45% for the 4.3 argument." Oh noes! On a $35,000 5.3l you'll get $17,500 on re-sale and you would only get $15,255 on the V6 that would cost $33,900 if that $1100 MSRP difference is the only difference you pay. So even with your numbers, which I don't think are true because I think you can make better deals on 4.3s due to lower demand, you throw out an $1145 depreciation difference over five years against this:

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-silverado-v-6-instrumented-test-review

 

 

 

(and even with the EPAs 1mpg difference for the 4wd models you would make up that $1100 pretty easily in 5 years)

 

This is your first V8? That's nice. I've been driving them since my dad bought me a 5.7l Camaro to drive in HS in 1980. I've owned seven V8 pick up trucks over the years, and have a pretty good idea how they performed and towed.

 

It was a lot like my 2014 4.3l V6, and that is my point in this whole thread:

 

You've got millions of guys like me who have been driving Chevy small block trucks over the years, and they don't know a different level of performance than what this truck offers.

 

The 4.8l guys had worse performance. The 5.7l guys could have had better towing depending on how they were geared, but they could have had worse too. The 5.3 guys, same situation.

 

And yet here you are Silverado Steve, trying to tell us with your one year of experience driving V8 pick up trucks that somehow this engine that offers pretty much the same hp and torque as we've all been driving for decades has "never been enough, it was close, but only by the new 5.3 are ye saved!".

 

Sorry chief- not buying what you're selling. Been towing around boats a long time with power pretty similar to what this thing has, it can be done.

[Silverado Steve]

Steve, out of curiosity, what are you towing with your 5.3 that you are so glad you have that power?

That's a funny question Brian, I already answered that pages ago....save me the time from having to explain it again and go back and read for yourself. BLUF: it's not about towing, but Bang for the Buck looking at overall cost, resale value potential and power for expansion of need. None of which the V6 gives me in a full size.

[j-ten-ner]

May I ask a 2014 4.3L owner and a 2014 5.3L owner to do the math and calculate the cost per km/mile of his/her truck?

That's the only way to see which engine is "cheaper".

 

To make it somewhat compairable don't take the payment and interest into the equation (i.a.).

 

Thanks.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

[Silverado Steve]

I guess I got the v6 mostly because my max budget was a certain amount and I preferred to have more features of the SLE model and the SLE preferred package than a V8 with less equipment. Also the dealers I talked to were more motivated to sell a V6. Because my truck is a lease resale doesn't really factor in as much although I might buy the truck. My next truck I may very well get a V8 but, I didn't get the V6 for fuel economy, even the published EPA estimates are practically the same between the V6 and V8.

Your post makes the most sense for buying a V6. Thanks for that honest assessment. I don't feel that we got that from the other V6 advocates.

[Imcrazy]

Your post makes the most sense for buying a V6. Thanks for that honest assessment. I don't feel that we got that from the other V6 advocates.

If the V6 got like 20 city and 25 hwy with 4x4. I'd say there is an argument for getting it to save on gas. It's only major benefit is the cost savings of the intial purchase plus the possibility that dealers will wheel and deal on a V6 because they don't move off their lots as well as the 5.3 but, it doesn't move as well from a stop light either lol.