Bilstein shocks thread

TenofMe · April 1, 2016

I don't understand how using the top setting creates a harsher ride. The snap ring positions don't change anything with the spring preload. They only push the shock body down further, creating the lift.

I too wonder if it's people replacing the stock black shocks that notice the increase harshness? I can't see how the Bilsteins in the top position could be any worse than the stock Ranchos...

Donstar · April 1, 2016

I don't understand how using the top setting creates a harsher ride. The snap ring positions don't change anything with the spring preload. They only push the shock body down further, creating the lift.

I too wonder if it's people replacing the stock black shocks that notice the increase harshness? I can't see how the Bilsteins in the top position could be any worse than the stock Ranchos...

I hope someone answers this concern. I have asked the question in different ways and in other threads. The spring isn't getting shorter or more compressed. The higher the perch, the higher the lift. The ride should be the same at all levels.

MRTMotorsports · April 1, 2016

Here is Shane explaining how the 5100 (and 6112) work. He is one of the Bilstein team members working on the 6112 project.

Read this as well - http://www.bilsteinus.com/fileadmin/user_upload/user_upload_us/pdfs/Bil_LevShks_WebArticle.pdf

Mack207 · April 2, 2016

I don't understand how using the top setting creates a harsher ride. The snap ring positions don't change anything with the spring preload. They only push the shock body down further, creating the lift.

I too wonder if it's people replacing the stock black shocks that notice the increase harshness? I can't see how the Bilsteins in the top position could be any worse than the stock Ranchos...

The only thing the snap ring positions change is preload. The shock doesn't get longer. The increased preload keeps the shock from compressing more under the vehicles weight, creating lift, at the expense of down travel.

The increased ride firmness is from the increased angles the suspension is operating at. I also believe increasing the preload increases the ride firmness, but others don't.

The Rancho's ride bad because of their bouncy-ness. People complain of the 5100's riding bad because of the stiffness. Two different ends of the spectrum.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Mack207

jmd1487 · April 2, 2016

So my question would then be what setup is better... Keep in mind I need 2.5" of lift, Run the bilsteins at the max with a RC .5" spacer on top of the strut mount? Or have it on the stock setting with the RC 2.5 lift kit ?

Mack207 · April 2, 2016

So my question would then be what setup is better... Keep in mind I need 2.5" of lift, Run the bilsteins at the max with a RC .5" spacer on top of the strut mount? Or have it on the stock setting with the RC 2.5 lift kit ?

You won't be able to get a 2.5" spacer in with 5100's because they are longer than stock. You'd have to get new upper control arms. Top setting with .5" spacer may work. You could get the Bilstein 4600's, which I don't think are longer than stock, and run a 2.5" spacer.

The dampening on any Bilstein is far better than the stock shocks.

Donstar · April 2, 2016

The only thing the snap ring positions change is preload. The shock doesn't get longer. The increased preload keeps the shock from compressing more under the vehicles weight, creating lift, at the expense of down travel.

The increased ride firmness is from the increased angles the suspension is operating at. I also believe increasing the preload increases the ride firmness, but others don't.

The Rancho's ride bad because of their bouncy-ness. People complain of the 5100's riding bad because of the stiffness. Two different ends of the spectrum.

If the "increased angles" add firmness then this should also be expected from spacers. Most brand name spacer kits advertise no change in stock ride quality. I also question the impact of preload. I understand that the higher you raise the perch, the less the shock is compressed under the weight of the truck. However, the truck weighs the same at any of the settings. There should be no difference in spring function at the various levels. The reduction in down travel is relative to the height but some of the loss is supposedly made up for by the Bilstein's increased length.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Donstar

Mack207 · April 2, 2016

The ride does change with a spacer though. As I said before, the "same as stock" statement is simply not true. I ran stock shocks with max height spacers and the ride was definitely more firm. It's also why I said that I believe preload does contribute to the increase ride firmness. The ride is not the same when comparing a 2" spacer to 2" of lift with Bilsteins. Bilsteins dampening is also firmer than stock, and as you go up, the firmness is amplified by the increased angles.

You're correct that the truck weight does not change. The spring compresses a certain amount under this weight. Raising the bottom spring perch compresses the spring on the shock by a certain amount as well, but the shock is at full extension. Because the spring only compress a certain amount with the weight of the truck on it, and you have already compressed the spring some with the shock fully extended, the truck will sit higher. You lose down travel here because the shock is more extended at normal ride height.

TenofMe · April 2, 2016

The only thing the snap ring positions change is preload. The shock doesn't get longer. The increased preload keeps the shock from compressing more under the vehicles weight, creating lift, at the expense of down travel.

I just re-read the Bilstein docs, and the 5100 do indeed increase preload as you said. However, it also says that the shock shaft is longer then the OEM shocks, so that down travel is not limited the way a spacer kit is.

Mack207 · April 2, 2016

I just re-read the Bilstein docs, and the 5100 do indeed increase preload as you said. However, it also says that the shock shaft is longer then the OEM shocks, so that down travel is not limited the way a spacer kit is.

But as you go higher on the Bilsteins, you still lose down travel. When compared to the stock shocks, the travel may be the same on the Bilsteins on the 2nd / 3rd setting. You would have to compare the exposed shaft length on the 5100's and stock shocks with the weight of the vehicle on it to determine if the down travel was the same at a certain setting. Then subtract that from the total shaft length. Spacer kits limit down travel by overextending the OEM components.

Donstar · April 2, 2016

The ride does change with a spacer though. As I said before, the "same as stock" statement is simply not true. I ran stock shocks with max height spacers and the ride was definitely more firm. It's also why I said that I believe preload does contribute to the increase ride firmness. The ride is not the same when comparing a 2" spacer to 2" of lift with Bilsteins. Bilsteins dampening is also firmer than stock, and as you go up, the firmness is amplified by the increased angles.

You're correct that the truck weight does not change. The spring compresses a certain amount under this weight. Raising the bottom spring perch compresses the spring on the shock by a certain amount as well, but the shock is at full extension. Because the spring only compress a certain amount with the weight of the truck on it, and you have already compressed the spring some with the shock fully extended, the truck will sit higher. You lose down travel here because the shock is more extended at normal ride height.

Your experience with "max height spacers" may not be the same as those reporting on ride differences with a 1.5" or 2" spacer. I have not read complaints about changes in ride quality from these smaller spacer kits on 2014+ gm 1500's but I have read about issues with spacer kits over 2.5". The max height on a Bilstein on our trucks is 1.85". Their advertisement claims that a reduction in down travel is reduced with their 1/2" - 3/4" longer shock. The "preload" created from raising the perch translates to the truck's body sitting higher, not a change in spring dynamics. The shock is more extended than at lower perch height but there is more shock to extend.

Mack207 · April 2, 2016

Your experience with "max height spacers" may not be the same as those reporting on ride differences with a 1.5" or 2" spacer. I have not read complaints about changes in ride quality from these smaller spacer kits on 2014+ gm 1500's but I have read about issues with spacer kits over 2.5". The max height on a Bilstein on our trucks is 1.85". Their advertisement claims that a reduction in down travel is reduced with their 1/2" - 3/4" longer shock. The "preload" created from raising the perch translates to the truck's body sitting higher, not a change in spring dynamics. The shock is more extended than at lower perch height but there is more shock to extend.

I said max height just as an example. I've ran 1.5", 2", and 2.5" on the same vehicle. The change in ride is small enough that most people won't say anything about it or really notice it, but there is a change. It also depends on what type of spacer you use. A spacer that mounts to the lca / bottom of the shock won't affect the ride as much as a spacer that sits on top of the shock. I think this is the reason most GMC / Chevy owners don't notice a change in ride as much. Most other vehicles only have a top of the shock spacer.

With 5100's being longer than stock, yes the down travel at a higher setting my be equal to that of stock. But when comparing a 5100 at the top setting to a 5100 at the bottom setting, the one at the top setting will have less down travel with the weight of the vehicle on it.

Donstar · April 2, 2016

I am trying to justify purchasing Bilstein or Pro Runner SS levelling shocks when I visit the Houston area at the end of the month (much less expensive than where I live). However, I am not finding compelling arguments that support levelling shocks over bottom of the strut spacers. Another forum member (GMC-AT) has expressed his preference for 1.5" bottom strut spacers on different threads. I would prefer a level that improved function as well as appearance but can't afford to experiment!

Mack207 · April 2, 2016

The dampening, quality, and warranty are the reasons I have gone with 5100's on all of my vehicles (Grand Cherokee, Titan, AEV Jeep JK, GMC Sierra). The stock shocks on all of them were too bouncy over any type of rough terrain. I've also had to warranty a shock through Bilstein and they sent me out a new one without any questions. The OEM Rancho's on the 1500's have way too much bounce for my liking. Low speed turns are like driving in a boat when compared to 5100's.

The argument for spacers is that they are simple, and mostly don't change what you currently have. They're also the only option for the magnetic ride if you have that.

For $200, $350 installed with an alignment (or $250 if you do the install yourself, then get an alignment) 5100's are a no-brainier for me. And no, I don't work for Bilstein.