Powertrain Warranty

1SLOW1500 · January 5, 2019

I had to come back here and check. But it isn't the same truck. I was on a different forum and the guy just bought a 6.2 truck used from the dealer and it is miss firing on #4. Dealer service says it has no history of the problem. And he is asking for help. First 4 responses are miss fires are normal and replace plug then wire, then coil.

But everyone said make dealer fix it.

Gagliano7 · January 6, 2019

I had my buddy check by putting my wideband in his exhaust at idle and it goes lean then back to normal and so on and you can hear the idle change each time. I put the wideband in mine and it stays right at 14.5-14.7. His goes from 14.7 to 16.2 at idle. Amazing the dealer tech drove it home and said everything was fine. You would think with all there equipment they could find the problem.

Pacfanweb · January 6, 2019

On 1/2/2019 at 11:31 AM, Gagliano7 said:

My friend has a 2016 5.3 50000 miles that just started running rough the other day and his gas mileage started dropping. Check engine light flashed a couple of times but turned off. Since he still had the 5/60000 mile warranty he took it to the dealer. There were no codes in the motor but they found some misfires on 3 cylinders. After checking a bunch of things they said it was 3 injectors that were bad but they are not covered under powertrain warranty. So they replaced the 3 injectors and coil packs and his truck still stumbles at idle and smells super rich but throws no engine codes and the dealer charged his a lot of dough. Now he has a different mechanic trying to figure out the problem. The new Mechanic has it narrowed down to cylinder 7 spark problem. It's weird that it won't throw any codes.

The mechanic at the chevy dealer said Dodge and Ford would have covered the injectors.

Not under a powertrain warranty, they wouldn't.

Worked at a Ford dealer for 16 years, powertrain doesn't cover injectors. Internal engine, trans, rear end, transfer case, etc. only.

Typically only the manufacturer's top ESP (extended service program), such as Ford's ESP Premium, will cover things like injectors and sensors. The lower plans will not.

That said, under a certain mileage sometimes you can get your selling dealer (if you're the original owner) to help you with an AWA (After Warranty Adjustment). They do have the option to offer this up to a certain mileage/years in service. I don't know what that point is for GM dealers, but I do know they have it, and then you can appeal to GM for some assistance as well. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Pacfanweb · January 6, 2019

10 hours ago, Gagliano7 said:

I had my buddy check by putting my wideband in his exhaust at idle and it goes lean then back to normal and so on and you can hear the idle change each time. I put the wideband in mine and it stays right at 14.5-14.7. His goes from 14.7 to 16.2 at idle. Amazing the dealer tech drove it home and said everything was fine. You would think with all there equipment they could find the problem.

The equipment only monitors what is happening when they drive it. It's not a magic truth serum for the computer. If it doesn't act up when they drive it and there are no codes, there's nothing they can do but guess.

Now, they may well know that it's *usually* the coil pack...but here's where the dealer is in a Catch-22 situation: The general public thinks that anything the dealer looks at should be perfect when they get it back. So if they say to the customer "There are no codes and we haven't duplicated your concern so far, but based on your description it's very likely a coil pack"....and then the custom has them replace.....and it turns out to NOT be the coil pack?

Then the customer is back, angry, bad-mouthing the service department to all his friends, and wanting them to fix it for no charge now. Despite being told that they had no concrete proof it was the coil pack. No matter how they frame it to the customer, even if they say "now this is no guarantee, it's just what we've seen many time".....nope, the customer sees a giant monolith that just took his money and didn't fix his truck.

If an independent shop goes through the same process, customers tend to be more patient with the "process of elimination" method of repair.

So you can understand the dealer's reluctance to just guess at a part, even if they have seen it before, without being 100% sure.

It's something I've always found interesting in my career. Other "repair" professions don't get held to the same standards. But lots of people think they know a little something about cars, or know someone who does, so mechanics are second-guess more than politicians.

You go to the doctor and he looks at you, does whatever tests, and writes you a prescription and says "take these, if you're not better in a week, come back". And if you're not, you come back, pay your co-pay again, he bills your insurance again, over and over until they find whatever is wrong with you. The doctor gets paid every visit.

Not so with mechanics, and particularly not so with dealership service departments. No, they are expected to get it right the first time, every time (very unrealistic) and then fix it for free the next time if they don't.

Okay, sorry for the rant, just 35 years of the car business from all sides bubbling to the top there, lol.

Gagliano7 · January 6, 2019

1 hour ago, Pacfanweb said:

The equipment only monitors what is happening when they drive it. It's not a magic truth serum for the computer. If it doesn't act up when they drive it and there are no codes, there's nothing they can do but guess.

Now, they may well know that it's *usually* the coil pack...but here's where the dealer is in a Catch-22 situation: The general public thinks that anything the dealer looks at should be perfect when they get it back. So if they say to the customer "There are no codes and we haven't duplicated your concern so far, but based on your description it's very likely a coil pack"....and then the custom has them replace.....and it turns out to NOT be the coil pack?

Then the customer is back, angry, bad-mouthing the service department to all his friends, and wanting them to fix it for no charge now. Despite being told that they had no concrete proof it was the coil pack. No matter how they frame it to the customer, even if they say "now this is no guarantee, it's just what we've seen many time".....nope, the customer sees a giant monolith that just took his money and didn't fix his truck.

If an independent shop goes through the same process, customers tend to be more patient with the "process of elimination" method of repair.

So you can understand the dealer's reluctance to just guess at a part, even if they have seen it before, without being 100% sure.

It's something I've always found interesting in my career. Other "repair" professions don't get held to the same standards. But lots of people think they know a little something about cars, or know someone who does, so mechanics are second-guess more than politicians.

You go to the doctor and he looks at you, does whatever tests, and writes you a prescription and says "take these, if you're not better in a week, come back". And if you're not, you come back, pay your co-pay again, he bills your insurance again, over and over until they find whatever is wrong with you. The doctor gets paid every visit.

Not so with mechanics, and particularly not so with dealership service departments. No, they are expected to get it right the first time, every time (very unrealistic) and then fix it for free the next time if they don't.

Okay, sorry for the rant, just 35 years of the car business from all sides bubbling to the top there, lol.

Coil packs, wires, plugs and 3 Injectors were changed. # 7 cylinder is the one that has misfires. That is one of the Injectors that was changed. Your telling me the dealer can only monitor while driving but not at idle? I’M calling bull$hit. And your telling me the tech can’t here the idle change and the terrible smell from exhaust. My buddy says when he is in his truck it stinks so bad his clothes smell. His wife couldn’t even stand to be behind his truck at a light when she followed him home. But the tech says everything is normal. Laughable!!!

tbarn · January 6, 2019

Well, they should take another look at it. But at some point it should go to another dealer/shop. I have no idea how many techs this dealer has but a lot of times it is a routing issue. There are great techs, terrible techs and everywhere in between, whether it's a dealer or independent. Sometimes the best techs are busy ( often buried in an electrical or intermittent problem ) so work that probably should go to them gets handed out to a "B" or "C" tech. Just the way it works. If their best driveability tech can't fix it, time to go elsewhere. You can always ask for a full or partial refund.

Pacfanweb · January 7, 2019

9 hours ago, Gagliano7 said:

Coil packs, wires, plugs and 3 Injectors were changed. # 7 cylinder is the one that has misfires. That is one of the Injectors that was changed. Your telling me the dealer can only monitor while driving but not at idle? I’M calling bull$hit. And your telling me the tech can’t here the idle change and the terrible smell from exhaust. My buddy says when he is in his truck it stinks so bad his clothes smell. His wife couldn’t even stand to be behind his truck at a light when she followed him home. But the tech says everything is normal. Laughable!!!

No, I'm not telling you that. Don't know how anyone could read my post and think that. You can monitor it anytime.

And if the truck is acting up WHILE they are testing it, they should be able to find it.

If it's not, then it's guesswork. All that other stuff about smelling it in their clothes is all well and good, but unless it's doing that while the tech is working on it, he's likely not going to find the problem.

You don't know if the truck acts up all the time, or if it's intermittent. Intermittent problems SUCK to find.

But the fact is here, you weren't there when they were working on it, and all you know is what your buddy told you.

So we're all kind of shooting in the dark if we're going to try and help, because you have no direct knowledge of this issue. I don't know what led the service dept to replace those parts in the first place. No idea what they found or what codes it did or did not have.

I would agree that they should probably diagnose it again for no charge...and I'm sure they'd do that. But I seriously doubt that it was running like your friend told you it was and they looked at it and said it was fine. I'm guessing it's intermittent. What he needs to do is go by there when it's acting up. I know it's inconvenient, but intermittent problems don't care about your schedule, and you have to just suck it up and get it seen when it's acting up.

Gagliano7 · January 7, 2019

Does it all the time at idle. If you drive it seems fine and WOT it runs fine. He thinks since they charged him $1500 the first time changing coil packs and 3 injectors plus terrible diagnosis they don't want to admit there initial screw up since they bent him over the first time.

dieselfan1 · January 8, 2019

This is why I always buy the extended warranty.

Covers everything to 150,000 miles . Even the radio.

I find it strange that the tech drove the truck home.

If I take my trucks in , they are not driving them home. Figure it out at the dealer. He probably didn't find any more information by driving it home.

Gagliano7 · January 15, 2019

Might never find out the outcome since he just ordered a 2019 ford.

Gagliano7 · February 22, 2019

Well he ordered a ford reg cab sb 5.0 with 3:73 gears 10 speed trans and he just took me for a ride. It is definitely faster than my 6.2 . It went sideways in first and went sideways in second and chirped 3rd gear. I was impressed how torquey it feels and very responsive.

I think i will be going to the dark side very soon.

martinmc75 · March 10, 2019

I am having the same problem with my 2016 it started about 4 months ago with only 47k miles now; after replacing spark plugs, o2 sensors and going crazy... dealer told me I have a bad injector # 7 however the recommend to replace all 8 injectors and while we are at it replace the fuel lines at a "discounted" price of only $1800. ( it stinks to be asked to pay that much for truck you are still making payments on)

The service adviser pulled all the lame excuses; he even told me I have been putting some bad gas in there, I told him that it was the same gas that goes into the rest of the cars in my household and none of the other cars have any issues. (a Ford and a Honda that are running like champs with more miles)

Gordon and Partners is a law firm that has a office in the same building where I work; they have filed class action law suet in the past against car makers before for problems such as this one... as son as get around to it I will let you all know if we have a case and see if you would like to participate.

martinmc75 · March 10, 2019

On 1/8/2019 at 9:48 AM, dieselfan1 said:

This is why I always buy the extended warranty.

Covers everything to 150,000 miles . Even the radio.

I find it strange that the tech drove the truck home.

If I take my trucks in , they are not driving them home. Figure it out at the dealer. He probably didn't find any more information by driving it home.

If Gm would still make trucks the way the used to; no one would have to pay extra for warranty.