19 SILVERADO FRONT BRAKE UPGRADE

[groovy_moon]

On 6/13/2019 at 12:16 AM, 1SLOW1500 said:

I agree with this unless you have much heavier wheels and tires. Also the pedal feel and customer felt grip or confidence is there.
I have had wilwood,Baer,aerospace, and strange. In everything from daily,autocross, and drag racing. Daily is the most difficult to size and dial in. I believe the compound and surface space is what gave it the feel of being better not the hole and slots or the 6 pistons.
Buddy has hardcore track car and it is solid disc and 4 piston. He swears it doesnt need more then that.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

No they do stop better.. I have tested all sorts of brakes and installed and tested (with real live data) several prototypes of "Big Brake" mods for OEM manufacturers. Wheel size is irrelevant. What IS important is Rolling Radius (The distance from the center of your hub to the ground)... So in some cases people put on big wheels and then a low profile tire and their rolling radius is VERY close to the original design... OR you have guys that put HUGE tires on lifted trucks.. then the rolling radius is much bigger and the brakes have to put out proportionally more torque to get the same "retarding force" on the road. Also.. compared to the inertia of the vehicle as a whole... the rotational inertia of the wheels is probably minimal.

 

Holes and slots kind of look cool... for daily driver they are debatable.

 

You Buddy's track car may also be VERY light and if it's a short track circle track car.. it isn't really going very fast... KE = 1/2mV^2... V^2 is the BIG factor in Kinetic energy here.

 

 

[groovy_moon]

On 1/8/2020 at 1:05 AM, flyingfool said:

how big is the bore size on the caliper vs the oem stock set up? and what was the difference in pad compund...? 

 big rotors dont stop faster. they are actually more difficult to slow down. its called physics..

Not true... Increasing a rotor diameter by as little as 1" can increase the effective radius significantly. This increases the lever arm on of the caliper around the hub and the output torque of the brake can be increased by 10% or more. The increased rotational inertia of the rotor (due to the larger diameter and slight increase in weight), although it does make it very slightly harder to stop the rotor, is insignificant compared to the overall inertia of the system (entire vehicle), and the increase lever arm MORE than makes up for the increased inertia.

 

Most OEM's try and keep rotor size/weight down for: BIG #1) COST, #2) Handling Considerations, almost meaningless in a truck #3) Wheel size packaging.

 

[groovy_moon]

On 1/18/2020 at 9:19 PM, davester said:

"you could just redesign the oem proportioning valve  internal components"

 

Yup, that definitely sounds like something people with no knowledge of the design of braking systems, or the tradeoffs involved, or a knowledge of the capabilities and limits of the braking components of the truck, should do.

AND .... Modern (or even a few gens ago) vehicles have not had prop valves for YEARS AND YEARS.... Since virtually the DAWN of ABS they have had EBD... Electronic Brake Distribution. Trust me on this one.. I have been testing brakes and running system development programs at tier 1 & 3 suppliers for decades.

[groovy_moon]

On 1/31/2020 at 5:07 PM, truckmann said:

I got the new brakes installed last weekend. Everything went as expected making it a pretty easy swap. My stock wheels would not have cleared if I didn't have the spacers. They were on my truck when I bought it and don't seem to be hurting anything so I've just left them. They do seem to have better stopping power than the old setup and the pad install on this type of caliper is super easy. The pedal feel is a little better, but not as firm as I hoped it would get to. I could probably use a better flush of the old fluid though. I may try to do that later on. I have a Motive pressure bleeder, but even using that the fluid was very slow to get pushed through the lines. 

 

 

Absolutely and Definately flush out your brake fluid. GM fluid has been poor quality when compared to others. Even name brand aftermarket is better and Toyota fluid is the BEST. I know I have seen the actual test data. ALSO.. you brakes will need a little time to brake in an get full contact. ALSO... Try stainless braided jounce hoses... ..

[groovy_moon]

On 1/31/2020 at 5:29 PM, truckmann said:

Here is what I ordered from Rock Auto and I got some Stop Tech SS brake lines number 950.66002 from ebay. 

The brake lines aren't really needed, but I figured since I was in there I may as well upgrade those too. The price of the brake pads was stupid, but they also came with a new pad life sensor which I didn't need. I'd bet you will be able to find pads cheaper before too long. 

 

If the brake pads did not say GA9130 HH in the upper right hand corner on the back of the pad... you did not get the OEM original friction material for that caliper.......The HH stands for the friction level and is about as high as I have EVER seen in my ENTIRE 30+ year career as a brake systems and components Engineer. This may have had an effect. ALSO.. sometimes these Hi friction level pads can take a while to burnish in and achieve 100% contact and a stable friction level.

[truckmann]

25 minutes ago, groovy_moon said:

Absolutely and Definately flush out your brake fluid. GM fluid has been poor quality when compared to others. Even name brand aftermarket is better and Toyota fluid is the BEST. I know I have seen the actual test data. ALSO.. you brakes will need a little time to brake in an get full contact. ALSO... Try stainless braided jounce hoses... ..

Good to know. I'll do a better flush of the entire system when I have time. I got stainless braided hoses for the front, where you referring to something different than that? 

 

Also I want to say thank you for taking the time to address all the information in this thread with real data.

 

20 minutes ago, groovy_moon said:

If the brake pads did not say GA9130 HH in the upper right hand corner on the back of the pad... you did not get the OEM original friction material for that caliper.......The HH stands for the friction level and is about as high as I have EVER seen in my ENTIRE 30+ year career as a brake systems and components Engineer. This may have had an effect. ALSO.. sometimes these Hi friction level pads can take a while to burnish in and achieve 100% contact and a stable friction level.

GA9130 HH is on the pads and the more I have driven it the better it has gotten.  I only drive the truck a couple days a week.  It was definitely a worthwhile upgrade. Not that the OEM brakes for 2014 were terrible, but this feels like a nice improvement. I look forward to finding out how it does pulling my 25' - 4 place PWC trailer this summer. It's got surge brakes on it, but I think this will be an improvement. 

 

[groovy_moon]

46 minutes ago, truckmann said:

Good to know. I'll do a better flush of the entire system when I have time. I got stainless braided hoses for the front, where you referring to something different than that? 

 

Also I want to say thank you for taking the time to address all the information in this thread with real data.

 

GA9130 HH is on the pads and the more I have driven it the better it has gotten.  I only drive the truck a couple days a week.  It was definitely a worthwhile upgrade. Not that the OEM brakes for 2014 were terrible, but this feels like a nice improvement. I look forward to finding out how it does pulling my 25' - 4 place PWC trailer this summer. It's got surge brakes on it, but I think this will be an improvement. 

 

AWESOME... That is the factory OEM material on 2019-> Sierra/Silverado 1500. It is made by "Galfer". 9130 Is a Non Asbsestos Low or NO copper "organic" lining. It will have a low or nbo metal (steel) content.. which is good for rotor life. . It has an HH friction rating. That is pretty high... Galfer at the moment may be a division of ITT. Galfer makes brake stuff for everything ... even bicycles. USUALLY the OEM's will have a "Value line" of brake pads they will sell and call them "OEM Equivelent" or whatever, but they are not the exact same material as the vehicle was originally built with. These trucks may be so new that they have not qualified an OES (Original Equipment Service) friction material yet (or they never intend too).

[groovy_moon]

Just now, groovy_moon said:

AWESOME... That is the factory OEM material on 2019-> Sierra/Silverado 1500. It is made by "Galfer". 9130 Is a Non Asbsestos Low or NO copper "organic" lining. It will have a low or nbo metal (steel) content.. which is good for rotor life. . It has an HH friction rating. That is pretty high... Galfer at the moment may be a division of ITT. Galfer makes brake stuff for everything ... even bicycles. USUALLY the OEM's will have a "Value line" of brake pads they will sell and call them "OEM Equivelent" or whatever, but they are not the exact same material as the vehicle was originally built with. These trucks may be so new that they have not qualified an OES (Original Equipment Service) friction material yet (or they never intend too).

Flushing the system is a good thing every 2 years or so. Easy to do. Suck as much fluid out of the reservoir as possible.

Fill it with fresh fluid. Starting with the caliper farthest away from the MC pump fluid thru until clear.. go all around.. keep an eye on the level...

Your welcome. I would love to share actual real data but it is all proprietary and I could lose my job...I can share my conclusions and be vague about the actual makes and models...

I think you put the source and part number for the SS braided hose... thanks in advance!!

 

[TJay74]

On 2/18/2020 at 1:16 PM, groovy_moon said:

Flushing the system is a good thing every 2 years or so. Easy to do. Suck as much fluid out of the reservoir as possible.

Fill it with fresh fluid. Starting with the caliper farthest away from the MC pump fluid thru until clear.. go all around.. keep an eye on the level...

Your welcome. I would love to share actual real data but it is all proprietary and I could lose my job...I can share my conclusions and be vague about the actual makes and models...

I think you put the source and part number for the SS braided hose... thanks in advance!!

 

 

 

its nice to see an actual engineer in here posting for once. I really think when the time comes to do the pads on my 16 Sierra I will either do Z06 style big brake kit or buy the 20+ GM trucks front brakes. No reason in general, more so that I just like to tinker and improve things when I can. 

I always find it strange that engineers say drilled/slotted rotors are not beneficial and yet the automakers on their high performance high end models always put drilled rotors on the cars, heck even the carbon ceramic rotors are still drilled even with the amount of stopping power the provide. I still wonder if that is from the years of crappy drilled rotors making it to the market versus the modern day ones.

[truckmann]

12 minutes ago, TJay74 said:

 

 

its nice to see an actual engineer in here posting for once. I really think when the time comes to do the pads on my 16 Sierra I will either do Z06 style big brake kit or buy the 20+ GM trucks front brakes. No reason in general, more so that I just like to tinker and improve things when I can. 

I always find it strange that engineers say drilled/slotted rotors are not beneficial and yet the automakers on their high performance high end models always put drilled rotors on the cars, heck even the carbon ceramic rotors are still drilled even with the amount of stopping power the provide. I still wonder if that is from the years of crappy drilled rotors making it to the market versus the modern day ones.

I think it has more to do with being on a daily driver, very few people will ever use their brakes enough to gain the added benefit of the degassing and/or extra cooling compared to a track car. 

[groovy_moon]

34 minutes ago, TJay74 said:

 

 

its nice to see an actual engineer in here posting for once. I really think when the time comes to do the pads on my 16 Sierra I will either do Z06 style big brake kit or buy the 20+ GM trucks front brakes. No reason in general, more so that I just like to tinker and improve things when I can. 

I always find it strange that engineers say drilled/slotted rotors are not beneficial and yet the automakers on their high performance high end models always put drilled rotors on the cars, heck even the carbon ceramic rotors are still drilled even with the amount of stopping power the provide. I still wonder if that is from the years of crappy drilled rotors making it to the market versus the modern day ones.

Yeah... They probably show their benefit  (drilled/slotted) at very high levels of performance.. Like "track Day" on an actual track on a fast car.. They look really cool too  ... For normal daily driving.. not sure there is any benefit... Drilled/slotted rotors are promoted by Marketing Engineering to the general public. I put them on my Acura TSX (Cause they look cool) and for the type of driving I do I noticed nothing (they do make a faint whirring noise under braking)...

 

[TJay74]

So now the question, buy the GM big brake kit or get the 2019+ front calipers and rotors? Those are a direct replacement on the 14-18 trucks, correct?

[truckmann]

6 minutes ago, TJay74 said:

So now the question, buy the GM big brake kit or get the 2019+ front calipers and rotors? Those are a direct replacement on the 14-18 trucks, correct?

Yes. Direct replacement with the caveat of either wheel spacers or some grinding on the calipers for the OEM wheels to fit. So far I'm really happy I did it. 

[lovelessjl]

If the brake pads did not say GA9130 HH in the upper right hand corner on the back of the pad... you did not get the OEM original friction material for that caliper.......The HH stands for the friction level and is about as high as I have EVER seen in my ENTIRE 30+ year career as a brake systems and components Engineer. This may have had an effect. ALSO.. sometimes these Hi friction level pads can take a while to burnish in and achieve 100% contact and a stable friction level.

So is the old wisdom style of bedding the pads (basically several aggressive brake applications til almost stopped) still effective and worthwhile? Or is that just one of those "we've always done it this way" kind of things?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[truckguy82]

On 2/18/2020 at 12:32 PM, groovy_moon said:

Not true... Increasing a rotor diameter by as little as 1" can increase the effective radius significantly. This increases the lever arm on of the caliper around the hub and the output torque of the brake can be increased by 10% or more. The increased rotational inertia of the rotor (due to the larger diameter and slight increase in weight), although it does make it very slightly harder to stop the rotor, is insignificant compared to the overall inertia of the system (entire vehicle), and the increase lever arm MORE than makes up for the increased inertia.

 

Most OEM's try and keep rotor size/weight down for: BIG #1) COST, #2) Handling Considerations, almost meaningless in a truck #3) Wheel size packaging.

 

You are wrong about the lever effect.

 

Think about bicycle disc brakes vs Traditional cantilever brakes. The disc brakes are all the way center and work even better