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'14 1500 4.3 shaking in V4 mode


Darel Matthews

Question

Repost from the general troubleshooting board, they recommended I come over here...

 

2014 LT Z71 with 4.3.

 

When the cylinder deactivation kicks in and the truck switches into V4 mode, it has a very noticeable vibration or shake.  Not unlike driving on a washboard road.  This is not a wheel balance / driveline issue, it's definitely when the cylinders are deactivated and it's pretty much like a light switch.  Anytime, any speed, the truck is in V4 it's shaking.  Engine is totally smooth in V6 mode with all cylinders firing.

 

The shaking occurs the entire time the truck is running in V4 mode, NOT as it transitions in and out of it (as most of the other guys seem to have indicated).  The entire time the truck is in V4 mode, it feels like it's driving on a washboard road at all speeds and under all driving conditions.  V6 is perfect.

 

DIsclaimer: I "inherited" the truck from my dad, who swears it never had any vibration, but I felt it driving the truck home from his house for the first time.  My dad also doesn't know how to put gas in his own car, and is the sort of person who goes into a dealership and says, "I would like one car, please."

 

Thanks,

Darel

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19 hours ago, Darel Matthews said:

Thanks.  I'm not interested in masking a problem, so I'll fix it one way or another...besides I like the gas mileage I get and my '07 with AFM has been flawless for 200,000 miles now.  I'll start out with an oil change and see how things progress.

 

Anyone know anything about some sort of exhaust damper the dealers were trying a while back?

 

Darel how long have you owned this 07 truck you reference and how often is the oil changed? Yea, has nothing to do with the topic but I am curious...so...if you please....

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My dad bought the '07 new, and gave it to me with 21,000 miles on it.  So basically I've had it since new.

 

I know this is the wrong answer, but I listen to the computer....when it tells me to change the oil (or maybe at around 20% life left) I change it.  Who am I to second guess the engineers?  No synthetics or anything for it, either....it's only ever seen the cheap stuff at the local lube-N-squirt, whatever I get for my $30 and not having to lay on my back in the driveway.  Been doing this since new.

 

I have enough cars that are actually worth my time and money - the squeaky wheels get the (literal) grease.

 

Now watch....I haven't paid a lick of attention to that truck since I've owned it (haven't even washed it in 7 years) and now that I say something, it's going to crap out on me.

 

My son has been driving it all summer now, so as far as I know the dash could be lit up like Xmas and the wheels falling off and he wouldn't know the difference...maybe I should take it for a quick ride this afternoon.

 

Oddly enough I'd so much rather keep the '07 than the '14....it's like GM built the perfect truck, then said "let's ruin everything".  Still undecided what I'll do when the boy goes to college in the fall and I've got extra trucks around and the herd needs to be thinned.  

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

144,000 on my 2015 V6 and AFM has been running flawlessly and seamlessly the entire time. Mook keeps telling me it's going to blow any day now. He could be right. 

 

Best I can calculate in A-B-A-B test is it is good for about a 6-8% boost in mileage when operated under the most efficient conditions. Adds nothing when operated outside it range thus either off or only on when fuel trim is maxed out...like coasting down hill at 80 mph. Would appear the SAE agrees...link to Tech Paper below:

 

https://19january2017snapshot.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-10/documents/2016-01-0662-fuel-eff-map-2014-6cyl-gm-eco-tec-4.3l-eng-cyl-deac_0.pdf

 

I looked this up once and @newdude will correct me if I error on this but I recall the lifters/guides/VLOM remain the same as the pre 2014???? At least they come up the same part number.

 

All that said JSDIrt's comment about failure:

 

 

 He provided both the context for his experience (above quote) and stood in awe of the accomplishment. (below)

 

 

We can afford to extend some grace, right?

 

As to his observed failure point...it actually makes sense. About how long it would take to varnish up the VLOM or screens OR add a thou or so wear to the lifter bores when the operator has not been diligent in oil maintenance either in frequency or selection. This was also the Melling observation; the manufacture of the OEM parts. 

 

https://www.melling.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Melling-tech-bulletin-on-GM-LS-Deactivation-Lifter-Issues-3.1.18-1.pdf

 

 

 

Maintenance definitely has alot to do with failures - modern engines have ZERO tolerance to poor maintenance, since they're built on the ragged edge of failure to begin with. Back in the day, engines were overbuilt and underpowered - that's why we saw 3-400k miles out of our stuff without missing a beat. Even my buddies who never did maintenance could reach these numbers if the body didn't evaporate first.

 

I figure it's the guys that use their trucks for commuting, never stuff it to the rug, never get the engine above 3-4k RPM, and never work them that are getting high miles before lifter issues. My truck has been used the way I always used my trucks. I tow. I haul stuff. Just picked up 1,500 lbs of coal boiler and accessories in NC the other day. I use full power at least once every time I drive it. But, I'm on top of maintenance and use the best oil money can buy (Amsoil - been proven time and time again on paper and in real life), and yet I still have lifter tick showing up when hot at 113k - right in that mile range that I spoke of earlier. My '86 Grand Marquis has just under 280k miles, no smoke, no ticks, and will still burn a one-tire fire up the road for as long as I keep my foot in it.

 

But it leaks oil from the rear main, so I guess I should junk it for a '21 Silverado that might not make it through the 1st oil change, lol. That's economic sense ... 😄

 

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Edited by Jsdirt
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1 minute ago, Darel Matthews said:

My dad bought the '07 new, and gave it to me with 21,000 miles on it.  So basically I've had it since new.

 

I know this is the wrong answer, but I listen to the computer....when it tells me to change the oil (or maybe at around 20% life left) I change it.  Who am I to second guess the engineers?  No synthetics or anything for it, either....it's only ever seen the cheap stuff at the local lube-N-squirt, whatever I get for my $30 and not having to lay on my back in the driveway.  Been doing this since new.

 

I have enough cars that are actually worth my time and money - the squeaky wheels get the (literal) grease.

 

Now watch....I haven't paid a lick of attention to that truck since I've owned it (haven't even washed it in 7 years) and now that I say something, it's going to crap out on me.

 

My son has been driving it all summer now, so as far as I know the dash could be lit up like Xmas and the wheels falling off and he wouldn't know the difference...maybe I should take it for a quick ride this afternoon.

 

Oddly enough I'd so much rather keep the '07 than the '14....it's like GM built the perfect truck, then said "let's ruin everything".  Still undecided what I'll do when the boy goes to college in the fall and I've got extra trucks around and the herd needs to be thinned.  

 

 

Remember, these are the same engineers that can't keep these engines together, nor make ball joints that can handle MA roadways, nor hub bearings, nor transmissions and other driveline components ... :) 

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Quote

Maintenance definitely has alot to do with failures - modern engines have ZERO tolerance to poor maintenance, since they're built on the ragged edge of failure to begin with. Back in the day, engines were overbuild and underpowered - that's why we saw 3-400k miles out of our stuff without missing a beat. Even my buddies who never did maintenance could reach these numbers if the body didn't evaporate first.

This is so much rose-colored glasses.  Modern engines have 1,000x more tolerance for neglect.  10,000-mile oil changes are the norm.  When was the last time you had to adjust points, replace a distributor rotor, change a fuel filter, check your valve lash....

 

And people wax nostalgic for 140-hp big-blocks getting 7 mpg.  

 

That 300,000 mile thing is CRAP.  No older engines ever lasted that long.  The metallurgy just wasn't there.  The difference back then was Cletus Overalls could slap a set of rings in it every 60,000 for $25 and keep it going - which you definitely CANNOT do with modern engines.  There isn't an engine made now that WON'T see half a million miles with basic minimal maintenance.  Don't get me wrong, I am a car guy.  I have no interest in owning anything made after 1980 (which is why I just take my dad's hand-me-downs for my daily drivers).  But I own old junk knowing it's old junk, and when I really need to get to work, I'm getting in something made in the last 25 years.  Bonus, it'll have Sirius and hold my 24oz coffee.  

 

"Ah ain't gunna hav nun dat gub-mint cylinder shutoff in mah truck MAX POWAAAAHHH grunt grunt......"  - Cletus Overalls

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6 minutes ago, Jsdirt said:

Remember, these are the same engineers that can't keep these engines together, nor make ball joints that can handle MA roadways, nor hub bearings, nor transmissions and other driveline components ... :) 

My '07 has had exactly one wheel bearing changed, at 90K.  Did the whole front end at that time also "because I was in there".  Haven't even changed the fluid in the trans since new, never even looked at a diff or u-joint.  I ❤️ modern engineering.

 

FWIW I live in NE PA, in a town called Mountain Top if that te4lls you anything about my conditions.

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Just now, Darel Matthews said:

This is so much rose-colored glasses.  Modern engines have 1,000x more tolerance for neglect.  10,000-mile oil changes are the norm.  When was the last time you had to adjust points, replace a distributor rotor, change a fuel filter, check your valve lash....

 

And people wax nostalgic for 140-hp big-blocks getting 7 mpg.  

 

That 300,000 mile thing is CRAP.  No older engines ever lasted that long.  The metallurgy just wasn't there.  The difference back then was Cletus Overalls could slap a set of rings in it every 60,000 for $25 and keep it going - which you definitely CANNOT do with modern engines.  There isn't an engine made now that WON'T see half a million miles with basic minimal maintenance.  Don't get me wrong, I am a car guy.  I have no interest in owning anything made after 1980 (which is why I just take my dad's hand-me-downs for my daily drivers).  But I own old junk knowing it's old junk, and when I really need to get to work, I'm getting in something made in the last 25 years.  Bonus, it'll have Sirius and hold my 24oz coffee.  

 

"Ah ain't gunna hav nun dat gub-mint cylinder shutoff in mah truck MAX POWAAAAHHH grunt grunt......"  - Cletus Overalls

Dude, you haven't the slightest idea of what you're talking about. I can tell you're a younger feller by your statements.  I lived it! I can go out and take a picture of the Grand Marquis odometer and shoot a vid if you don't believe me. And you're obviously not a mechanic. Do you have any idea how many modern engines I work on? I just did a 2004 Olds Alero, 3100 engine - rocker bolts yanked right out of the head! Happened at 61k. Just did 3 more that failed at 127k! Hardly high miles. Have you seen the '21 Silverados failing before the first oil change? Take a look around the net. Do you know the history of my 2007? Nothing but constant failures since day ONE. I did make it to 100k on the engine, so that's something ... :D 

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3 minutes ago, Darel Matthews said:

My '07 has had exactly one wheel bearing changed, at 90K.  Did the whole front end at that time also "because I was in there".  Haven't even changed the fluid in the trans since new, never even looked at a diff or u-joint.  I ❤️ modern engineering.

 

FWIW I live in NE PA, in a town called Mountain Top if that te4lls you anything about my conditions.

2007 Silverado, bought new:

 

42 miles on the clock on the test drive, the brakes almost rattled the fillings out of my teeth.

 

Door trim fell off during week ONE.

 

Interior had more squeaks and rattles than my '94 K1500 with 266k miles on it. 5.7 - ran like a top, too.

 

Had 4x4 issues at 2k miles - turned out to be the switch that conveniently failed out of warranty.

 

5-6 brake jobs (I lost count!) under warranty that never fixed the pulsation.

 

Lower ball joint - junk at 38k.

 

Front strut junk, and upper ball joints junk at 50k - engine also started to burn oil then, and the front diff began to leak out the axle seals.

 

Hub bearings failed at 60k - I ran it to 75k when the noise finally became unbearable. Replaced both.

 

Rear differential failed at 97k, probably sooner. I only discovered the failure during a fluid change. Magnet LOADED with metal. Several tips of the spider gear teeth were in the magnet. This wore out the carrier to the point where it was unusable. The G80 clutches were also smoked to metal.

 

Transmission lost 3rd and 4th gear due to clutch pack burnup. 103k miles. Common issue with the newer 4L60E. Never happened at such low miles in the 90's. My Amsoil Signature Series ATF was still as red as the day I installed it, too.

 

105k miles - door hinges were completely smoked! My'72 El Camino's hinges were over 30 years old, as were my '86 Grand Marquis' hinges. That's a good lifespan. Not 14 years of LIGHT usage - 105k miles is usually done in 2-3 years by most people these days.

 

My engine oil samples have consistently shown high wear metals, even with Amsoil Signature Series oil dumped FAR before it's life was over. The engine has been failing since 70k miles, albeit slowly.

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38 minutes ago, Darel Matthews said:

This is so much rose-colored glasses.  Modern engines have 1,000x more tolerance for neglect.  10,000-mile oil changes are the norm.  When was the last time you had to adjust points, replace a distributor rotor, change a fuel filter, check your valve lash....

 

And people wax nostalgic for 140-hp big-blocks getting 7 mpg.  

 

That 300,000 mile thing is CRAP.  No older engines ever lasted that long.  The metallurgy just wasn't there.  The difference back then was Cletus Overalls could slap a set of rings in it every 60,000 for $25 and keep it going - which you definitely CANNOT do with modern engines.  There isn't an engine made now that WON'T see half a million miles with basic minimal maintenance.  Don't get me wrong, I am a car guy.  I have no interest in owning anything made after 1980 (which is why I just take my dad's hand-me-downs for my daily drivers).  But I own old junk knowing it's old junk, and when I really need to get to work, I'm getting in something made in the last 25 years.  Bonus, it'll have Sirius and hold my 24oz coffee.  

 

"Ah ain't gunna hav nun dat gub-mint cylinder shutoff in mah truck MAX POWAAAAHHH grunt grunt......"  - Cletus Overalls

 

About a dozen in my family alone of motors between 750K and a million starting with a 36 Ford Flathead. 

 

A few more

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-17603598

How about 3 million miles! 

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/n-y-man-nears-3-millionth-mile-beloved-66-volvo-flna871301

 

 

Ya know there was a time with a 454 BBC was closer to 500 hp Gross hp. 1970

Edited by Grumpy Bear
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17 minutes ago, Jsdirt said:

Just in case there's a few non-believers out there. Straight from GM itself:

 

https://gm-techlink.com/?p=14363

 

Two things I find of interest here. 1.) Why are the 4.3's not failing? At least rare enough as to not be included in this TSB 2.) Who decided plastic trays were a good way to locate a lifter? :crackup:Dog bones would have lasted forever and cost less. 

Edited by Grumpy Bear
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2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Two things I find of interest here. 1.) Why are the 4.3's not failing? At least rare enough as to not be included in this TSB 2.) Who decided plastic trays were a good way to locate a lifter? :crackup:Dog bones would have lasted forever and cost less. 

LOL, true! I find myself asking these same questions any time I work on a GM product built after 1995.

 

Their stuff is fantastic on paper ... then the engineers and pencil pushers take it and utterly destroy the initial design ... and WE'RE left holding the bag. Real nice of 'em.  The LS engine would be the best platform of all time if they would just built the stuff to last. Seems they're doing the bare minimum just to get them outside of the bumper-to-bumper warranty before everything goes to hell in a hand basket ...

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