Mobil 1 and AFM lifters

[M1ck3y]

13 minutes ago, pokismoki said:

you can pull the valve covers on your motor,, that should be enough evidence to change your mind

 

Yeah no, it doesn't work that way. And I already stated I don't use Mobil 1. Does that mean you believe all oil is garbage? All oil is cut with conventional oil? All claims of oil beibg full synthetic is false?

 

We're all waiting to see the data on mobil1 that proves it's not a full synthetic. 

 

Clearly you must be a chemical engineer, or you've found information by someone who has the know how to determine and make such claims.

 

It's one thing for us to cut through your bullshit. It's another for someone else who has no understanding of these things.

[pokismoki]

OK

[JimCost2014]

16 hours ago, M1ck3y said:

Drinking and posting is not a good mix..

Well, now I am going to have to rethink how I contribute here on the site

[M1ck3y]

Well now I feel like an (insert donkey emoji here) 

 

It was wearing on me, but I shouldn't have done that. This is a place of free speech. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by M1ck3y

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, M1ck3y said:

Well now I feel like an (insert donkey emoji here) 

 

It was wearing on me, but I shouldn't have done that. This is a place of free speech. 

 

My 2 cents? Yea, ya didn't ask.

 

 

See? Free speech!

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, M1ck3y said:

And I already stated I don't use Mobil 1. Does that mean you believe all oil is garbage? All oil is cut with conventional oil? All claims of oil being full synthetic is false?

 

More serious note. The conflict lays in the definition of the word Synthetic. 

 

Polyester cloth is a synthetic. A fiber made from natural gas. No such thing as a polyester plant or a nylon or rayon plant. Not a natural fiber like cotton or linen (flax) or even silk. Group IV & V fluids are like polyester. A manufactured 'thing' that does not exist in nature. Group II, II+, Group III, III+ and GTL's are 'reformed' molecules. Modified molecules but still mineral oil based molecules. Not really a new 'thing' but a modified 'thing. It's like making a table out of an oak tree and calling the table synthetic because the finished product is manufactured but the wood is still wood. Understand?

 

The rub comes in the word Synthesis itself. To 'make'. So in one camp Group III is not a synthetic because it isn't a new "thing" and in another camp it is because it is "made". No where on earth can the finished product, still talking Group III type materials here, be pumped from earth nor simply 'distilled' from the earths reserves like a 'Conventional" oil can be. Just like there is no place on earth to find a 'table tree".  Castrol made a decision to call these reformed products "Synthetics". Mobil sued them and LOST so we now all live in a 'synthetic' (new thing) reality. Some blame Castrol. I see it as lying on the API's doorstep. 

 

Mobil decided to opt for greed instead of integrity and followed the Castrol lead. Now we fight over the correctness of the API's and governments decisions. You might be surprised who else followed that lead. 

 

Company's that put thumbs under there suspenders making a fine point of differentiating  100% Synthetic from Full Synthetic insisting on it meaning nothing less the Group IV and V fluids ONLY have now, and very quietly jointed ranks replacing Group IV components with Group III's or Group V with paraffin mineral oils.

 

Second rub. If what you need is a table then what you call it and what it is made from doesn't matter. Could be chrome and glass and still be a functioning table. 

 

Third rub. You can keep a motor just as clean with Pennzoil's old standby 5W30 Conventional as you can with MPT's or Penrite's top of the line Polyol/PAO blends if you change the Conventional often enough. Sludge/varnish and Nitration residues are the result of exceeding the fluids life not the cause. 

 

An oil that is a real stinker isn't so because of the base oil. A great Synthetic base oil without a good add package won't last as long or perform as well as a Conventional paraffin oil with a GREAT add package. But a great base and great add package will cover allot of mistakes. 

 

 

 

[M1ck3y]

There it is! I couldn't agree more with your perspective.

 

The only problem though... you tend to kill a thread when you share your wisdom 

[customboss]

Pearls to swine comes to mind with Grumpy Bear.  He's pompous and bombastic at times in his writing but he is sharing from a background that most of us tech folks and gearheads would love to interface with our tool turning capabilities.  He shares gems here from learning, experience, and a lot of book learning that came the hard way like I did.  

 

Please no one reading be offended by my comments but doing automotive science successfully means you burn the midnight oil.....pun intended. 

Reading or seeing is not equal to knowing.  Internet boards and google were not available in 1978 when I started a tribology career.   Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Chemistry, and Chemical Engineering are why we can drive around.  Add in the digital tech interface and internet type stuff,  but those basics still apply. 

 

Fuel and lubricants are key to success if one cares.  

 

I flew in military and commercially and I have handed the flight controls to many who thought it was easy, like any skill set it may look easier than actuality, but they still rolled us inverted or overspeed the flaps, overshot runway or lost control in a hover,  etc. 

 

 I respect skilled folks of which there are more than a few here enjoying our trucks and I thank you all for sharing, even Grumpy Bear! 

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, customboss said:

Pearls to swine comes to mind with Grumpy Bear.  He's pompous and bombastic at times in his writing but he is sharing from a background that most of us tech folks and gearheads would love to interface with our tool turning capabilities. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah...you shouldn't have. 

 

A bit backhanded but I'll take it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

 

 

 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces” (Matthew 7:6).

 

Happens often.

And still I try. 

 

 

[pokismoki]

8 hours ago, JimCost2014 said:

Well, now I am going to have to rethink how I contribute here on the site

if it wasn't for drunks posting stuff these forums might just be filled with "relevant" information in which to help others

[pokismoki]

for the money spent MOBIL1 is junk "to me"  when I buy a fresh jug , pour into my car and see a brownish sludge in the bottom of the empty jug. THIS IS MY SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS.. wtf is that crud doing in there?

 

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, M1ck3y said:

 

Yeah no, it doesn't work that way. And I already stated I don't use Mobil 1. Does that mean you believe all oil is garbage? All oil is cut with conventional oil? All claims of oil beibg full synthetic is false?

 

We're all waiting to see the data on mobil1 that proves it's not a full synthetic. 

 

Clearly you must be a chemical engineer, or you've found information by someone who has the know how to determine and make such claims.

 

It's one thing for us to cut through your bullshit. It's another for someone else who has no understanding of these things.

Edited November 30, 2021 by pokismoki

[M1ck3y]

8 hours ago, pokismoki said:

if it wasn't for drunks posting stuff these forums might just be filled with "relevant" information in which to help others

 

I wasn't very clear with that post. I was refering to you, actually out of concern. 

[M1ck3y]

9 hours ago, pokismoki said:

for the money spent MOBIL1 is junk "to me"  when I buy a fresh jug , pour into my car and see a brownish sludge in the bottom of the empty jug. THIS IS MY SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS.. wtf is that crud doing in there?

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the brown sludge. More than likely the oil you bought was old, and the additive package fell out of suspension.

 

It may seem rediculous but I always give my oil a good shake for this very reason 

[Grumpy Bear]

11 hours ago, pokismoki said:

for the money spent MOBIL1 is junk "to me"  when I buy a fresh jug , pour into my car and see a brownish sludge in the bottom of the empty jug. THIS IS MY SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS.. wtf is that crud doing in there?

 

Everything is in the wording and this post is a nail struck square. WOW! 

 

for the money.....When Mobil 'reformulated' (changed base oils) after the loss to Castrol what didn't change was the price!

 

What also changed, besides the chemistry, was the trust in a product undermine "by thy own hand". That part is truly sad but not germane to the products quality.  

 

'junk' here is thus in comparison to other oils of similar performance claims and the quotation around "to me" makes it clear this isn't a scientific statement but rather one of opinion. The bases of that opine an unsettling observation that is not at all universal thus questionable "to me". 

 

Honestly fellas, I'm not seeing the bases for a conflict here.