Black Bear Tunes And Others

00_Extended · December 4, 2009

How will a black bear tune or others like this tune affect warranty on my 2009 Silverado? I am after a tune that will be more help to MPG's mild performance and just basicly waking up the truck. I have been reading that unleashing the transmission torque will make a big change and I fugure this should help with both performance and MPG's since less throttle would be needed at take offs. I am very happy with the trucks performance a little annoyed with the speed limiter, I drive a wide open well paved and maintained private road that is about 3 miles long on the way to work and it's kinda fun to open up what your driving.

I want the truck to still run low octane fuel, it is not a flex fuel engine if that matters. I have On-Star and it's in use, I have read that people switch computer modules because they can be ordered with the tune installed, Can On-star or GM reflash over this tune? Will they know it's there? If I install my original back for service etc will the milage and lack of recorded info be an issue at service time?

In my case and not wanting to have warranty issues would ahand held be a better choice or do they affect warranty also?

Thanks

Joe

Mike@Diablosport · December 4, 2009

How will a black bear tune or others like this tune affect warranty on my 2009 Silverado? I am after a tune that will be more help to MPG's mild performance and just basicly waking up the truck. I have been reading that unleashing the transmission torque will make a big change and I fugure this should help with both performance and MPG's since less throttle would be needed at take offs. I am very happy with the trucks performance a little annoyed with the speed limiter, I drive a wide open well paved and maintained private road that is about 3 miles long on the way to work and it's kinda fun to open up what your driving.

I want the truck to still run low octane fuel, it is not a flex fuel engine if that matters. I have On-Star and it's in use, I have read that people switch computer modules because they can be ordered with the tune installed, Can On-star or GM reflash over this tune? Will they know it's there? If I install my original back for service etc will the milage and lack of recorded info be an issue at service time?

In my case and not wanting to have warranty issues would ahand held be a better choice or do they affect warranty also?

Thanks

Joe

To avoid any warranty or service concerns, I would consider a Predator or a Trinity as a great option.

Not only do they allow you to tune the truck, but you can switch tunes, go back to stock for the dealer, and even modify the tunes to your liking if you desire.

You also get tire size adjustment, speed limiter removal, and more, and it is completely not traceable by the dealer.

Thanks

Mike

.justin. · December 4, 2009

How will a black bear tune or others like this tune affect warranty on my 2009 Silverado? I am after a tune that will be more help to MPG's mild performance and just basicly waking up the truck. I have been reading that unleashing the transmission torque will make a big change and I fugure this should help with both performance and MPG's since less throttle would be needed at take offs. I am very happy with the trucks performance a little annoyed with the speed limiter, I drive a wide open well paved and maintained private road that is about 3 miles long on the way to work and it's kinda fun to open up what your driving.

I want the truck to still run low octane fuel, it is not a flex fuel engine if that matters. I have On-Star and it's in use, I have read that people switch computer modules because they can be ordered with the tune installed, Can On-star or GM reflash over this tune? Will they know it's there? If I install my original back for service etc will the milage and lack of recorded info be an issue at service time?

In my case and not wanting to have warranty issues would ahand held be a better choice or do they affect warranty also?

Thanks

Joe

When installed on a replacement set of computers, you can very quickly swap back to the stock module(s) (much quicker than reflashing via the OBD2 port). Additionally, we will be providing a handheld option with the full customizability of our tunes, including 4 and 6 speed transmission support and quick and easy updates via email. You will also have the benefit of being able to utilize EFILive's extremely powerful scan tool and diagnostics software.

06MonteSS · December 4, 2009

reflashing with the Predator or Trinity takes only about 15-20 seconds....

I see getting under the hood, unplugging & unmounting, then re-mounting and plugging back in modules taking longer than that...

stadt11 · December 5, 2009

^ but Justin's tunes kill the Predator or Trinity "parameters" ANY DAY!!!!

stadt11 · December 5, 2009

Like Justin said, get a second set of modules & you'll be good-to-go, takes seconds to swap them out.

VMax2007 · December 5, 2009

reflashing with the Predator or Trinity takes only about 15-20 seconds....

I see getting under the hood, unplugging & unmounting, then re-mounting and plugging back in modules taking longer than that...

I can swap my modules in under 5 minutes.

VMax2007 · December 5, 2009

How will a black bear tune or others like this tune affect warranty on my 2009 Silverado? I am after a tune that will be more help to MPG's mild performance and just basicly waking up the truck. I have been reading that unleashing the transmission torque will make a big change and I fugure this should help with both performance and MPG's since less throttle would be needed at take offs. I am very happy with the trucks performance a little annoyed with the speed limiter, I drive a wide open well paved and maintained private road that is about 3 miles long on the way to work and it's kinda fun to open up what your driving.

I want the truck to still run low octane fuel, it is not a flex fuel engine if that matters. I have On-Star and it's in use, I have read that people switch computer modules because they can be ordered with the tune installed, Can On-star or GM reflash over this tune? Will they know it's there? If I install my original back for service etc will the milage and lack of recorded info be an issue at service time?

In my case and not wanting to have warranty issues would ahand held be a better choice or do they affect warranty also?

Thanks

Joe

When installed on a replacement set of computers, you can very quickly swap back to the stock module(s) (much quicker than reflashing via the OBD2 port). Additionally, we will be providing a handheld option with the full customizability of our tunes, including 4 and 6 speed transmission support and quick and easy updates via email. You will also have the benefit of being able to utilize EFILive's extremely powerful scan tool and diagnostics software.

Can the Diablosport products say that?

00_Extended · December 5, 2009

What are the cost of the tunes with hand held support and new modules? What is the cost of a Sport hand held? E-mail support sounds very good.

Again with the switching computers does this cause any problems with warranty? Does it go undectected in every way?

stadt11 · December 5, 2009

http://blackbearperformance.com/services.asp

If wanting spare modules the prices are as follows:

$60 - 96-00 Vortec

$100 - Gen-III

$160 ECM / $60 TCM - Gen-IV Trucks and SUVs

A HUGE Plus IMO, retunes are free and if you want something tweaked just send it to Justin & he'll get the most performance outta your truck for ya

AK FiveO · December 5, 2009

If the dealership service center discovers your swapping ecm/pcm/tcm modules, your screwed on the warranty...guaranteed! (you ever break one of those plastic electrical connector latches unplugging the wire harness?). The DiabloSport simply re-installs the factory program. The change is undetectable by the dealership.

Not to mention:

- if you change tire size (summer -vs-winter tires), you can calibrate the truck for the correct tire size with the Diablo. (cant do that with Black Bear)

- you can read/analyze/clear "check engine light codes" (cant do that with Black Bear)

- adjust between at least 3-different "pre-tunes" for different octanes of fuel (in case you drive somewhere [like Alaska] that doesn't have 93 octane fuel) (cant do that with Black Bear)

- build/store/install up to 5 different "custom tunes" built by an experienced tuner like MonteSS (cant do that with Black Bear)

- Turn Active Fuel Management off/on at will (say you decide to take a 500/1000 mile road trip across I-10 ...it would be nice to turn AFM back on for max fuel mileage during the trip, yeah?) (can't do that with Black Bear)

- update the programs/tunes via Internet download in a matter of moments (can't do That with Black Bear)

- Change between summer and winter custom tunes. (if you live in a climate where you experience cold temps ...you have to adjust for ambient temperatures or your tune is not optimal) (can't do that with Black Bear)

- remove that pesky speed limiter!

I could probably go on for quite awhile, but your probably seeing the point by now. The Predator is extremely versatile, and all of those adjustments can be made in a matter of minutes while sitting in your truck. With Black Bear ...best case scenario is you bought an additional set of computers to swap when you need to take the truck into the service center. And even at that ...you have one tune with fixed parameters. No adjustments without sending them back for re-tune. If you don't buy the extra computers, then your truck is underivable while your pcm is shipped for re-tune. And if you you break one of the clips on the wire harness to the pcm/ecm/tcm? ...the service dudes will certainly suspect your swapping units. Not good for warranty disputes.

Don't get me wrong, I respect the Black Bear folks and their tunes. I'm actually envious of the tcm tune capability, their ranks rant and rave about. Unfortunately, I live in Alaska and cant get a live Black Bear Tune. However ...I know what the mods on my 2009 5.3L have done for my truck (the Predator being at the heart of those mods). It is a completely different machine than stock now. It drives sooo much better, and absolutely hauls ass compared to stock (and I'm running the low 87 octane tune)! I can't imagine that the Black Bear is getting that much more out of the engine than the Predator. But then again, I'm pretty certain that anyone that wants to go fast isn't trying to do it with a pick-up truck anyway. If they are, they have way more money than they have sense. My $10,000 Suzuki Hayabusa can get me to 60mph in under 2.5 seconds ...1/4 mile times in the 9's at 145+mph, and a top speed approaching 200mph. Those are the showroom stock numbers, and I don't leave anything stock! So the debate over an extra few horsepower, or a tenth or two in the quarter mile from a 5000+ pound 4 wheel drive vehicle capable of running 15 second 1/4 mile times at 80-90 mph seems pretty silly in the face of the unmatched versatility of the Diablo Tuner.

I'm a motor head with plenty of wheel (racing) and engine time on boats, trucks, cars and bikes. I understand that everyone has their own philosophy about what works best for making power. I say, "to each their own". My personal experience is, "he with the most money usually wins", and "dyno numbers don't always reflect what happens at the track". So at the risk of inviting all the flamers and haters ...I recommend the Predator for flexibility, versatility, and warranty peace of mind ..."with all due respect to Black Bear and their fans!"

That being said ...

"Hey Diablo Sport, how about some damn tcm support ...I need a re-load!"

66nova · December 5, 2009

If the dealership service center discovers your swapping ecm/pcm/tcm modules, your screwed on the warranty...guaranteed! (you ever break one of those plastic electrical connector latches unplugging the wire harness?). The DiabloSport simply re-installs the factory program. The change is undetectable by the dealership.

Not to mention:

- if you change tire size (summer -vs-winter tires), you can calibrate the truck for the correct tire size with the Diablo. (cant do that with Black Bear)

- you can read/analyze/clear "check engine light codes" (cant do that with Black Bear)

- adjust between at least 3-different "pre-tunes" for different octanes of fuel (in case you drive somewhere [like Alaska] that doesn't have 93 octane fuel) (cant do that with Black Bear)

- build/store/install up to 5 different "custom tunes" built by an experienced tuner like MonteSS (cant do that with Black Bear)

- Turn Active Fuel Management off/on at will (say you decide to take a 500/1000 mile road trip across I-10 ...it would be nice to turn AFM back on for max fuel mileage during the trip, yeah?) (can't do that with Black Bear)

- update the programs/tunes via Internet download in a matter of moments (can't do That with Black Bear)

- Change between summer and winter custom tunes. (if you live in a climate where you experience cold temps ...you have to adjust for ambient temperatures or your tune is not optimal) (can't do that with Black Bear)

- remove that pesky speed limiter!

I could probably go on for quite awhile, but your probably seeing the point by now. The Predator is extremely versatile, and all of those adjustments can be made in a matter of minutes while sitting in your truck. With Black Bear ...best case scenario is you bought an additional set of computers to swap when you need to take the truck into the service center. And even at that ...you have one tune with fixed parameters. No adjustments without sending them back for re-tune. If you don't buy the extra computers, then your truck is underivable while your pcm is shipped for re-tune. And if you you break one of the clips on the wire harness to the pcm/ecm/tcm? ...the service dudes will certainly suspect your swapping units. Not good for warranty disputes.

Don't get me wrong, I respect the Black Bear folks and their tunes. I'm actually envious of the tcm tune capability, their ranks rant and rave about. Unfortunately, I live in Alaska and cant get a live Black Bear Tune. However ...I know what the mods on my 2009 5.3L have done for my truck (the Predator being at the heart of those mods). It is a completely different machine than stock now. It drives sooo much better, and absolutely hauls ass compared to stock (and I'm running the low 87 octane tune)! I can't imagine that the Black Bear is getting that much more out of the engine than the Predator. But then again, I'm pretty certain that anyone that wants to go fast isn't trying to do it with a pick-up truck anyway. If they are, they have way more money than they have sense. My $10,000 Suzuki Hayabusa can get me to 60mph in under 2.5 seconds ...1/4 mile times in the 9's at 145+mph, and a top speed approaching 200mph. Those are the showroom stock numbers, and I don't leave anything stock! So the debate over an extra few horsepower, or a tenth or two in the quarter mile from a 5000+ pound 4 wheel drive vehicle capable of running 15 second 1/4 mile times at 80-90 mph seems pretty silly in the face of the unmatched versatility of the Diablo Tuner.

I'm a motor head with plenty of wheel (racing) and engine time on boats, trucks, cars and bikes. I understand that everyone has their own philosophy about what works best for making power. I say, "to each their own". My personal experience is, "he with the most money usually wins", and "dyno numbers don't always reflect what happens at the track". So at the risk of inviting all the flamers and haters ...I recommend the Predator for flexibility, versatility, and warranty peace of mind ..."with all due respect to Black Bear and their fans!"

That being said ...

"Hey Diablo Sport, how about some damn tcm support ...I need a re-load!"

All very valid points. All points that will no longer be valid after the first of the year with AutoCal release.

Then all of what you just went over can be accomplished with a Black Bear tune AND it will have TCM support for both the 4 speed and 6 speed transmissions.

That being said, if I was buying a handheld before autocal's release then I would definitely buy a Diablo.

Matt_ · December 5, 2009

I had the diablosport predator on my 05 and LOVED it. people toss around HP numbers all the time that they "think" they've gained but I've yet to see any actual 1/4 mile times or dino results posted... So with my 05 I took it to the track. 5.3L, 33s, 4.10s, crew cab. Stock tune was no tire spin off the line and 17.4 second 1/4 time. Next run was 87 Octane performance tune, TM removed, shifts firmed... i not only broke the tires loose off the line which resulted in a slower 60' time, but my ET went down to 16.6 Seconds. Assuming I would have controlled my launch better and not spun the tires, Im sure I would've had a 16.4 run. A full second off the 1/4 mile is damn impressive for ANY tuner, let alone a canned handheld tune.

With that said, Diablosport lost my business when they failed to produce TCM support... and said "they were working on it" over a year ago.

I'm un-tuned now... but if the handheld from BB is going to have the capabilities they're claiming, add me to the order list

Badass69 · December 5, 2009

TCM support........ now that goes for EFI Live or HP Tuners. Diablo............. I am still waiting for TCM support on my Charger over 2 years after initial handheld release. Same sorry excuse of 'We are working on it". The GM handhelds don't have it either. Why only do things half way and leave it? The only reason I have a Predator is because I have zero other viable options for my SRT. If HP releases VCM Suite for Dodge, my Predator will go on Kijiji. Sure the handheld is great to mess with on the fly but I can buy either EFI Live or Hp and do everything a Diablo could ever hope to do and tons more all from my laptop. I'm not the average joe blow with tuning either though and am smart enough to not grenade my engine because you don't know what you are doing. My experience?????? I dunno, how about making process plants run properly with multiple different data strings and control systems. A car is one computer doing one thing...........

AK FiveO · December 5, 2009

66Nova,

Could of banked money you would be one of the first to weigh in ...LOL! Allow me to say that since I started playing with my Sierra, and hanging out here at gm-trucks ...I've admired that 66Nova and respected your opinions and posts. (used to run a "Five O" Mustang street/strip myself ...hence my long-time callsign "Five O").

I agree with you whole-heartedly. When AutoCal comes on line, the Black Bear system for tuning will be that much better ...tipping the scales. I also agree that the tcm support is more than just a slight advantage with Black Bear. Believe me, if Justin and his troops would have offered a live tune session here in Alaska, I'd probably be running a BB Tune also. However, with that option not "on the table" ...the Diablo Sport was more than an acceptable alternative. Living in Alaska, the extreme temperature changes, summer/winter tire changes, and unique driving conditions ...the flexability to change my the tune within a few moments was a deciding factor. I've run the Diablo on my previous two desiel trucks and they were very impressive, so I was already a fan. I also agree with you ...if your going to buy a handheld, the Diablo Sport is the only option to consider.

With Black Bear comes AutoCal. Likewise, with Diablo Sport will come tcm support ...helping to fill the void and balancing the scales once again. I know Justin and crew are probably a lot closer to providing thier upgrades than Diablo Sport is with tcm support. However ...I'm very certain that the boys at Diablo are not ignoring the cry for tcm, and working very hard to get it out there. Until then, I will be patient and enjoy the performance that I've gained so far from Diablo Sport and the other mods which have turned an otherwise benign vehicle into something fun to drive on a daily basis. Oh ...and enjoy hanging out at gm-trucks with Dudes like you that can exchange in spirited debate.

Respectfully,

-Five O