Rap How-to On Nbs (keyed Accessory Power)

jerseydrew · August 29, 2012

just curious, do we have to use the GT 280 connector or will a small female spade connector work? like the ones used for the smaller port of a speaker connection?

pacrat1958 · August 31, 2012

I believe it would still be too wide and make contact with the terminal beside it. You can try it though. If you want a few of the correct terminals, just pm me and I'll mail you a few. No cost. I ordered a few extra when I did mine.

Oldergeek · March 9, 2013

Just wanted to say how valuable this OP was to me. I spent a lot of time looking before I found it. The information was spot on and the pictures and explanation were great. Unfortunately I ran into some difficulty that took me a while to work out. When my relay and wiring harness arrived I followed the post, removed the red wire, etc. (Used small female spade ends with no problems). The only issue was that after 2 days my battery was dead. Took me a week and 2 more battery charging sessions to figure it all out too.

To cut to it, it turned out that the pigtail that I received was NOT wired like the one in the OP. After checking to find a schematic for the relay (see URL below) I found out what my problem was. I had to remove all 4 of the remaining wires from the harness and put them in the proper spots so that I could follow the OP. That done I finally was successful.

In an effort to avoid anyone else having this issue, I'm listing the site (URL) that contained the information that I needed, and the pin codes (found on the back of the relay) along with the corresponding wire colors necessary to make this work like the OP:

http://www.mp3car.com/the-faq-emporium/117895-faq-relays-how-they-work-and-how-to-wire-it-up.html

pin 30 = Blue Wire that goes to either X14 pin 2 or pin 5 (constant 12V)

pin 85 = Black Wire that goes to X14 pin 1 (ground)

pin 86 = White Wire that goes to X14 pin 8 (RAP source voltage)

pin 87 = Yellow Wire that is your new RAP switched power source for your radio, gps, amp, lighter, etc.

If you make sure that this is what you have then there should be no problems. I hope that this will help someone, I'd hate to think that I was the only dumb one out there that got a wiring harness that wasn't up to spec.

Great job the OP Diesail !

traxxremixpool · March 10, 2013

Just wanted to say how valuable this OP was to me. I spent a lot of time looking before I found it. The information was spot on and the pictures and explanation were great. Unfortunately I ran into some difficulty that took me a while to work out. When my relay and wiring harness arrived I followed the post, removed the red wire, etc. (Used small female spade ends with no problems). The only issue was that after 2 days my battery was dead. Took me a week and 2 more battery charging sessions to figure it all out too.

To cut to it, it turned out that the pigtail that I received was NOT wired like the one in the OP. After checking to find a schematic for the relay (see URL below) I found out what my problem was. I had to remove all 4 of the remaining wires from the harness and put them in the proper spots so that I could follow the OP. That done I finally was successful.

In an effort to avoid anyone else having this issue, I'm listing the site (URL) that contained the information that I needed, and the pin codes (found on the back of the relay) along with the corresponding wire colors necessary to make this work like the OP:

http://www.mp3car.com/the-faq-emporium/117895-faq-relays-how-they-work-and-how-to-wire-it-up.html

pin 30 = Blue Wire that goes to either X14 pin 2 or pin 5 (constant 12V)

pin 85 = Black Wire that goes to X14 pin 1 (ground)

pin 86 = White Wire that goes to X14 pin 8 (RAP source voltage)

pin 87 = Yellow Wire that is your new RAP switched power source for your radio, gps, amp, lighter, etc.

If you make sure that this is what you have then there should be no problems. I hope that this will help someone, I'd hate to think that I was the only dumb one out there that got a wiring harness that wasn't up to spec.

Great job the OP Diesail !

Any links or pics of the connectors you used(female spade ends)? I think im going to do this in a few hours to wire up my new headrest screens

Oldergeek · March 10, 2013

Sorry for no pictures on the connectors. I'm just talking about the normal crimp on kind like you find in Lowes or Walmart. They usually come in 2 sizes, small and large. The large ones is too big for the X14 slot, it would touch more than one terminal. The smaller one is normally used for making connections to speakers. Here is a link to a picture that should help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kabelschuh_verschiedene_commons.jpg

The Spade connectors are on the bottom part of the circle, notice that they are in different sizes. What you want is the Red one.

wottenad · March 11, 2013

Sorry for no pictures on the connectors. I'm just talking about the normal crimp on kind like you find in Lowes or Walmart. They usually come in 2 sizes, small and large. The large ones is too big for the X14 slot, it would touch more than one terminal. The smaller one is normally used for making connections to speakers. Here is a link to a picture that should help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kabelschuh_verschiedene_commons.jpg

The Spade connectors are on the bottom part of the circle, notice that they are in different sizes. What you want is the Red one.

The small pins in the junction block take .110 female spades to slide over them...

ryanutter35 · December 8, 2013

Hey guys, First post on here, and my first forum with a GM
product. I gave up on ford and dodge...

I trying to do this so my dash camera comes on with my key,
however, it seems like I’m not getting enough power. I plugged in a small
LED light that takes less than 5 amps to power it, and it still isn’t getting
enough. I see people are powering GPS and monitors so I’m not sure what I
am doing wrong. We use the yellow wire for the power wire for our device,
then ground the device out like normal correct? I know it’s been a
while since this thread has been active but I would appreciate any help.

Thanks!!

tailwheel234 · March 22, 2014

I just saw this thread last week... ordered the GM connector for my truck... it came with only a pigtail in it for the GND pin, with what seems like a diode in line under some tape. Am I safe if I just connect the rest of the connections direct and the GND have the diode?

Also, I am having the darndest time locating the terminals to go in the connector. The GM Dealer wont sell them to me, claiming they are only for installer use, and online I see them with a minimum qty order of 3500?!

Could use some help!!

Thanks in advance... Truck is a 2007 (Newest Body Style) Silverado LT.

zdale59 · February 1, 2018

So does this look correct? I am concerned mostly about the direction of the diode. Thanks

I know that 85 and 86 are on the opposite sides, just easier to correct myself this way.

radiotech1 · August 6, 2018

Hello, does anyone know if the 2015-19 have the same MBEC and X14 connection?

EvergreenZ71 · July 25, 2023

Long time viewer, first post here (I'm usually on the Tahoe/Yukon forum and formerly on Z71Tahoe-Suburban)

Resurrecting an old thread for my first official post as I'm trying to add RAP (or accessory) circuits to both my 2009 Tahoe and 2010 Suburban. First and foremost; member Diesail, thank you for the great write-up! I hope no one minds that I'm going to copy & post (with due credit) this information to the Tahoe/Yukon Forum as I spend more time there and this information hasn't been transferred there yet.

Here is some additional pertinent information as of July 2023:

Member Oldergeek posted that the relay pigtail (and possibly the relay itself?) he purchased was not wired the same as the OP (maybe the same issue as ZDale59 - see below?) and shared a website with updated relay schematics and pin codes, but unfortunately that site is also no longer functioning.
- OP directions: Relay Post to Connector Pin list with identified pigtail colors:
  - Relay Pin 30 – constant 12v source [Blue wire] – X14 connector Pin 2 or Pin 5 [Battery feed]
    - Pin 2 has 15 amps
    - Pin 5 has 30 amps
  - Relay Pin 85 – Relay trigger positive [White wire] – X14 connector Pin 8 [RAP feed]
  - Relay Pin 86 – Relay ground [Black wire] – X14 connector Pin 1 [Ground]
  - Relay Pin 87 – NO (normally open) circuit / aka switched circuit [Yellow wire] – Out to accessory or auxiliary fuse block for further distribution
  - Relay Pin 87a – Not used: remove or seal wire / connection [Red wire] – NOT USED (this pin creates a normally closed / ON circuit)
  - DIODE: connects Relay pin 85 & Relay Pin 86 with white
- Oldergeek directions: Relay Post to Connector Pin list
  - Relay Pin 30 – constant 12v source [Blue wire] – X14 connector Pin 2 or Pin 5 [Battery feed]
    - Pin 2 has 15 amps
    - Pin 5 has 30 amps
  - Relay Pin 85 – Relay ground [Black wire] – X14 connector Pin 1 [Ground]
  - Relay Pin 86 – Relay trigger positive [White wire] – X14 connector Pin 8 [RAP feed]
  - Relay Pin 87 – switched circuit [Yellow wire] – Out to accessory or auxiliary fuse block for further distribution
  - Relay Pin 87a – Not used: remove or seal wire / connection [Red wire] – NOT USED
  - DIODE: connects Relay pin 85 & Relay Pin 86 with white
- EDIT: After additional research both are basically correct. According to further information about relays from 12voltplanet (https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html)
  - ... the coil should be fed with +12V to terminal 86 and grounded via terminal 85, however in practice it makes no difference which way around they are wired, unless you are using a relay with an integrated diode.
  - Thus the difference or specificity is directly necessary and integrated with the inclusion of the recommended diode.
- Most importantly, to retain alignment with the GMUpfitters directions, read the relay schematics for the relay & relay pigtail you purchase and make sure of the following:
  - The ground indicated for YOUR relay is connected to X14 connector Pin 1
    - Note, some relays reference the switch on the negative side
  - The positive trigger indicated for YOUR relay is connected to X14 connector Pin 8
  - The recommended diode connects with the cathode (stripe) towards the positive trigger (X14 connector Pin 8 ) and the anode (other end) towards the ground (X14 connector Pin 1)
Relay Specifics:
- You must use a "normally open" relay to make use of RAP or accessory power
  - An open relay is not connected / off
  - A closed relay is connected / on
- I believe both 4-pin (Normally Open) or 5-pin relays (using Pin 87) can be used
  - Do not use 4-pin (Normally Closed) relays nor 5-pin (using Pin 87a)
In regards to the diode referenced by member xPosTech (Tech Bulletin 86) and reinforced by member Cujo8. Note: member Bill in Niantic had used the setup without a diode for 2(+) years without problem, but it sounds like adding a diode may be a safer plan.
- GM Upfitter identifies diode 12112422 specifically
  - Install a diode, P/N 12112422, across the coil of the solenoid. It is important that the striped end of the diode be connected to the positive terminal of the coil and the other end of the diode be connected to ground
  - This appears to be identified as a 300 volt, 3 amp diode (though I also see where it is identified as a 400 volt, 3 amp diode)
- xPosTech identifies another diode (1N4003) that appears to be much more readily available and appears to be a 200 volt, 1 amp diode.
- Diode 1N5404 appears to be the same as GM 12112422 and may be the part number for what Cujo8 identified:
  - {Cujo8} added a 3amp, 400PIV diode to the harness between white(85) and black(86) pigtail wires just behind the black socket to give the diode protection to this relay assembly (Diode stripe-end connector should be attach to the white #85. connector)
- The diode (and complete connection) was drawn out by member ZDale59 (though it was posted as a question that was not replied to):
  - The diagram above is good ... but member Oldergeek identified a problem detailed above . Different relays may be set up in reverse!
  - The cathode (the line at the point of the arrow representing the end with the stripe) attaches towards the trigger (aka the ignition / + RAP source)
    - The anode (other end of the diode) attaches towards the ground
  - I also believe the OP only had the relay connecting to connector Pin 8, but I do not see this creating a problem whether the accessory ground is attached or not (i.e. directly grounded to the frame) since they are both grounds
GM Connector 20791502 (optional in directions) is discontinued and the option from member CGalford is no longer functioning. There is an aftermarket replacement option that appears to be already wired for both the 15 & 30 amp output: https://www.ebay.com/itm/222369004159
- Purchasing this appears to prevent the need to get the Female GT 280 terminals
- The primary difference I see between the 2009 & 2013 GM Upfitters Electrical manuals as it pertains to this project is that the 2013 includes the information contained in Tech Bulletin 86 (covering the Installation of a Diode to Suppress Voltage Spikes identified by member xPosTech) which is evidently not readily available from GM anymore:
  - https://www.gmupfitter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2009_LD_ElectricalPickupsChassisCabs_100813.pdf
  - https://www.gmupfitter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2013_LD_ElectricalPickupsChassisCabs_100713.pdf (see page A-14)
The dual relay posted by member TopDJ is no longer functioning as the website / store seems to be gone (http://www.aqua-man.com/row_num.asp?ic=80056&froogle=1). I found a few that sound similar, but not sure they are DC nor their voltage, but see my question section below for some possible similar alternatives.
Additional confirmation pulled from: https://www.justanswer.com/chevy/49d0i-chevrolet-silverado-lt-2010-silverado-ext-cab-lt-need.html
Additional triggering option
- Trigger / activate in reverse (pertinent to cameras or back-up alarms)

Some of the original pictures may no longer be viewable.

Picture of MBEC with Connector 20791502 inserted into X14 from eBay link above
- Note 1: Pin 5 has been removed in this image, meaning it is providing 15 amp service
- Note 2: while not addressed in OP, Pin 7 appears to be used instead of Pin 8 (Pin 7 is described as a fused 10 amp Run/Crank Feed per GM Upfitters: https://www.gmupfitter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2009_LD_ElectricalPickupsChassisCabs_100813.pdf)

And finally, my follow-up questions for anyone:

Female GT 280 terminals Delphi Part number 15304711 are listed as being 18-20 gauge, but currently appear to be available in 20-22, 16-18, and 12-14 from multiple sources.
- I assume the critical element is the size of the wires from the relay pigtail and the size of the terminal for GT 280 terminals will be consistent; does that sound correct?
- Just to keep it together, if not using the GM connector and don't want to get the GT 280 terminals, (properly insulated) 1/8" female spade terminals will fit according to TahoeYukonForm.com member Gooffeyguy
Pin 7 questions:
- Can Pin 7 be used directly and independently as accessory power without a relay (assuming limiting it to 1-2 devices not to exceed 10 amps)?
- Can Pin 7 be used as the trigger to only activate the power when running?
Can both Pin 2 and Pin 5 be used concurrently (but separately) to power separate circuits (one not to exceed 15 amps and the other independently not to exceed 30 amps)?
- This becomes valuable with the next question
Where are the 10 amp, 15 amp and 30 amp fuses for Pins 7, 2 & 8 in the MBEC X14 connection?
- The fuses I see in the picture of the MBEC (above) are 25 amp and I assume they came that way (see diagram below - all 4 clearly 25 amp) but Pins 2 & 8 are supposed to be already fused circuits.
- I have no evidence but the names and corresponding amperage and I don't know what SEO is, so any confirmation of the following information is appreciated.
  - The following numbers are for 2009 Gas Engines [with diesel numbers in parentheses at the end]:
    - I believe the 15 amp Pin 2 fuse is #52 (SEO B1) in the Underhood Fuse Block [#49]
    - I believe the 30 amp Pin 8 fuse is #37 (SEO B2) in the Underhood Fuse Block [#34]
    - I believe the 10 amp Pin 7 fuse is #54 (SEO/ALC) in the Underhood Fuse Block [#51]
  - GMUpfitters identifies these fuses differently than I would expect:
    - SEO B2 [Fuse30A]: Emergency Vehicle Roof Lamp Relay (5Y0)
    - SEO B1 [Fuse15A]: Auxiliary Body Control Module (XBCM) (EXP), Security Indicator Lamp, Vehicle Inclination Sensor, Vehicle Shock Sensor
    - SEO/ALC [Fuse10A]: Not Used
Does anyone see any problems using single unit / combination unit relay / fuse blocks?
- Painless Performance Products (all are 4-pin relays instead of 5-pin):
  - CirKit Boss Auxiliary Fuse Block/3 Circuits (3 Ignition 12V) P/N 70113
    - https://www.painlessperformance.com/wc/70113
    - single 40 amp relay with 3 relay-controlled circuits
  - CirKit Boss Auxiliary Fuse Block/7 Circuits (7 Ignition 12V) P/N 70117
    - https://www.painlessperformance.com/wc/70117
    - two 40 amp relays, 7 relay-controlled circuits
      - one relay controls 3 in the same housing and the other controls the 4 in the other
    - Appears to trigger both relays from a single input (see manual for 70217 and better image in 70218 linked below): https://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/70217.pdf
      - Thus my question above if both Pin 2 & Pin 5 could be used concurrently
  - CirKit Boss Heavy Duty Auxiliary Fuse Block/7 Circuits (7 Ignition 12V) P/N 70118
    - https://www.painlessperformance.com/wc/70118
    - two 70 amp relays, 7 relay-controlled circuits
    - Appears to trigger both relays from a single
      - Manual: https://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/70118.pdf
    - Larger gauge wiring all around with two 70 Amp SPST relays and total amperage of 140 amps
    - This would require power from the UBEC (Underhood Bussed Electrical Connector) Post 2 or connection to the auxiliary battery if supplying more than the MBEC has capacity for, but triggered by a single source which could be from the MBEC
  - Both 70113 & 70117 available in "Weatherproof version" (meaning they add a rubber cover) as 70213 & 70217.
- Universal 20A Motorcycle Automotive Fuse Block Fuse and Relay Box Kit with 4 Circuits Low: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BM9WFJKL/
- - This not likely to be my preference but is an option