Concealed carry classes

sputnik360 · February 26, 2013

The big thing I have against a lot of people who get their permit to carry is that they get their permit, a holster, and are good to go. In my opinion, you should attend a professional shooting class by a different instructor every year and practice shooting once a month. If you don't train under simulated stress, train malfunction drills, reload drills, etc... You have no business carrying a firearm for self defense.

Also, if you carry a gun, you are a fool if you don't carry a flashlight too.

Edit: just to clarify.. I'm not suggesting that it should be a law to get training every year. I just think it is your responsibility to do so if you plan on carrying a gun.

fm2176 · February 26, 2013

The big thing I have against a lot of people who get their permit to carry is that they get their permit, a holster, and are good to go. In my opinion, you should attend a professional shooting class by a different instructor every year and practice shooting once a month. If you don't train under simulated stress, train malfunction drills, reload drills, etc... You have no business carrying a firearm for self defense.

Also, if you carry a gun, you are a fool if you don't carry a flashlight too.

Edit: just to clarify.. I'm not suggesting that it should be a law to get training every year. I just think it is your responsibility to do so if you plan on carrying a gun.

While I agree to an extent, not everybody can afford to pay for annual training. Also, some of us are more rural than others and may have access to only one certified instructor if we're lucky. If it is affordable and available, though, wwe'd be foolish not to become as knowledgeable as possible.

That said, I think it is everyone's responsibility to at least self-train with their carry gun. Regular trips to the range, backyard, or other available shooting area should be made with both practice and carry ammo, but the rising cost of ammo could limit live-fire practice for many people. Most remotely competent people can at least practice drawing techniques, reloads, and lining up their sights. Also, plastic training cartidges can help with clearing drills and the like. Depending on the carry gun, some manufacturers offer licensed BB/pellet gun clones that could be used in a similar manner.

Gun laws and "lessons learned" are also things that CCW holders should keep abreast of. No one should be ignorant of the laws that may affect him/her, especially if that person is licensed to carry a firearm.

The flashlight is a great idea, and one that is all-too-often overlooked by self-proclaimed know-it-alls. I have yet to buy a handgun with a rail system, but I do have a Streamlight to mount if and when I do. My usual carry light is either a Sure-Fire Z2 or an M2 Centurion. Spare batteries and bulbs stay in the truck, and it gets a quick check before it goes in the pocket. Let's not forget the need for a spare magazine for two (or a speedloader for revolvers) as well. The weakest link in most semi-auto designs is the magazine, and failing to carry a spare is foolish and potentially fatal.

MikeNH · February 27, 2013

The big thing I have against a lot of people who get their permit to carry is that they get their permit, a holster, and are good to go. In my opinion, you should attend a professional shooting class by a different instructor every year and practice shooting once a month. If you don't train under simulated stress, train malfunction drills, reload drills, etc... You have no business carrying a firearm for self defense.

Also, if you carry a gun, you are a fool if you don't carry a flashlight too.

Edit: just to clarify.. I'm not suggesting that it should be a law to get training every year. I just think it is your responsibility to do so if you plan on carrying a gun.

While I agree training is important, the training regimen you describe is more intense than what most police officers undergo. I agree practice and training is important but these instructors are little more than walking money makers- spending hundreds on a class, hundreds more on ammo then beating the snot out of my gear doesn't seem like the best use of my resources. Especially considering that the situations they simulate aren't all that realistic to begin with.

As for the light, I carry too much crap as it is, I'll take my chances considering I'm rarely anyplace truly dark.

sputnik360 · February 27, 2013

While I agree to an extent, not everybody can afford to pay for annual training. Also, some of us are more rural than others and may have access to only one certified instructor if we're lucky. If it is affordable and available, though, wwe'd be foolish not to become as knowledgeable as possible.

That said, I think it is everyone's responsibility to at least self-train with their carry gun. Regular trips to the range, backyard, or other available shooting area should be made with both practice and carry ammo, but the rising cost of ammo could limit live-fire practice for many people. Most remotely competent people can at least practice drawing techniques, reloads, and lining up their sights. Also, plastic training cartidges can help with clearing drills and the like. Depending on the carry gun, some manufacturers offer licensed BB/pellet gun clones that could be used in a similar manner.

Gun laws and "lessons learned" are also things that CCW holders should keep abreast of. No one should be ignorant of the laws that may affect him/her, especially if that person is licensed to carry a firearm.

The flashlight is a great idea, and one that is all-too-often overlooked by self-proclaimed know-it-alls. I have yet to buy a handgun with a rail system, but I do have a Streamlight to mount if and when I do. My usual carry light is either a Sure-Fire Z2 or an M2 Centurion. Spare batteries and bulbs stay in the truck, and it gets a quick check before it goes in the pocket. Let's not forget the need for a spare magazine for two (or a speedloader for revolvers) as well. The weakest link in most semi-auto designs is the magazine, and failing to carry a spare is foolish and potentially fatal.

I typically don't have many big time instructors in my area either. I've taken a couple classes taught by a local officer who also teaches at the Iowa LEO academy. I think most reputable gun shops offer training of some sort. Usually pretty affordable. My intro class was 150 +400rds and my defensive class was 250 +800 rds. Also been to a gunshot wound class which was very informative. There are a lot of combat medics coming home who have a lot of experience and are starting to pass it on to civilians. I'm going to a Rob Pincus class in the first part of June. It's 450+800rds. Might be driving to OH late summer to go to a Dave Spaulding class as well.

Dry fire practice is great! I dry fire for about 20minutes a day give or take. I recently bought a SIRT training pistol with the red/green lasers and a resetting trigger. Steep start up costs, but if you figure in the cost of ammo if you were to practice any drill where you only need one shot (I don't practice 2 shots due to the lack of recoil), it will pay for itself quickly. The lasers are nice because it lets you see if you are pulling the trigger straight back or to the side. Dummy rounds are a cheaper option and I keep a couple for all my guns.

Good call on the lights. I bet SF makes LED replacements for them so you don't have to worry about bulbs. I carry a SF LX2 everywhere I go. You never realize how handy having a light is until you carry one. I use it all the time. A lot of times you don't need it, but it sure makes the job easier. I use my light probably more in the day than at night. And spare mags are great to carry. I typically carry a spare. However I would put a flashlight above a spare mag, but that's just me.

While I agree training is important, the training regimen you describe is more intense than what most police officers undergo. I agree practice and training is important but these instructors are little more than walking money makers- spending hundreds on a class, hundreds more on ammo then beating the snot out of my gear doesn't seem like the best use of my resources. Especially considering that the situations they simulate aren't all that realistic to begin with.

As for the light, I carry too much crap as it is, I'll take my chances considering I'm rarely anyplace truly dark.

Most police officers undergo training at the academy and then when they qualify every year. Through in the occasion night shoot too. Unless the are on a more advanced team or use personal funds, they don't train much. It doesn't take much to out-train an average cop. I was self taught at shooting. Watched a couple youtube videos on grip and trigger pull and thought I was good to go. Went to a class and holy crap did I improve. Having someone stand there and tell you what you are doing wrong and how to fix it is worth the money. Especially if any of us have the idea that someone we will use this tool to save our lives. A lot of situations taught at classes are not realistic, however they build the skills that you need when the realistic time comes. The only way you "beat the snot" out of your gear at a class is using it.. If you gear can't withstand use, your gear isn't good. If you are afraid to take your gun to a class because you think shooting it or racking it off your belt will hurt it, you need a new gun.

Practicing malfunctions is huge. A lot of SD shootings are done at close range or in a struggle. If your gun is touching something, it's probably only going to be a single shot because contact with the slide will likely cause a short stroke. A lot of shooters develop range habits that could cost them their lives. Such as using your hand to remove an empty magazine when in reality, every time you should let it drop to the floor. There was a big cop shooting (can't remember where right now) where the police actually took the time to put the spent brass from their revolvers in their pockets during a reload because that's what they did on the range. If you think you can magically do the right thing under stress when you've been doing the wrong thing all the time, you are horribly mistaken.

Plus if you enjoy shooting, it's even more enjoyable when you are good. Classes are fun and competitive. If you aren't pushing your abilities and bettering yourself, I don't want you carrying a gun on the same streets as me.

BlackZ71Silverado · February 27, 2013

Something you everyday "training" people don't understand is that people have jobs, families, responsibilities that take up time. Not everyone can afford to shoot all the time or can afford an 800+ round training.

As long as you are familiar with the weapon you choose to carry, you will not have an issue.

Most police departments qualify 1 time a year and use a total of 50-100 rounds for both day and night fire.

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hzhardy · February 27, 2013

Such as using your hand to remove an empty magazine when in reality, every time you should let it drop to the floor.

You should always reload during cover if possible and no you do not want to throw your ammo on the floor by letting you mag hit the floor and you do not want to re-engage with two in the mag. If you shoot till empty by all mean let it hit the floor. There are alot of tact pistol course but most will confuse the average Joe if he does not have the expeirience of prior training. Stuff like this need to be simple stupid for people. That is why I recommend revolvers for most people since there is not a slide to grab and de-breach or short stroke. In reality the training you speak of will get some one in trouble only attending once a year and cost thousands in ammo try to replicate on their own at the gun clubs. There is a reason why tactical teams leave and breath at the range running the these drills weekly. I have done many advance pistol/rifle/shotgun courses in the military and they are fun and are of high stress, but I personally would not recomend them to for CCW as these course teach some aggressive tactics that will get you in trouble with the law as they are geared for military and LEO training. Just know your gun shoot as much as possible and be aware of your surroundings.

sputnik360 · February 27, 2013

You should always reload during cover if possible and no you do not want to throw your ammo on the floor by letting you mag hit the floor and you do not want to re-engage with two in the mag. If you shoot till empty by all mean let it hit the floor. There are alot of tact pistol course but most will confuse the average Joe if he does not have the expeirience of prior training. Stuff like this need to be simple stupid for people. That is why I recommend revolvers for most people since there is not a slide to grab and de-breach or short stroke. In reality the training you speak of will get some one in trouble only attending once a year and cost thousands in ammo try to replicate on their own at the gun clubs. There is a reason why tactical teams leave and breath at the range running the these drills weekly. I have done many advance pistol/rifle/shotgun courses in the military and they are fun and are of high stress, but I personally would not recomend them to for CCW as these course teach some aggressive tactics that will get you in trouble with the law as they are geared for military and LEO training. Just know your gun shoot as much as possible and be aware of your surroundings.

I agree on the reloads, I was referring to a reload at slide lock like most people do at the range. I practice doing combat reloads and reloading before my gun is empty. A lot of classes might confuse people, but that's why they should start at beginning handgun classes and work up to the more advanced classes. The purpose of training is to have someone tell you how to correct your errors and teach you tools that can save your life. Going to a class teaches you what to practice on your own. There are many drill combinations you can do that are beneficial for under 100 rounds that will gain you a lot more than just punching 100 holes in a piece of paper at your leisure. There is a difference between military classes and civilian classes, and most instructors will steer you too a class suitable for you. I've taken a law only class from Massad Ayoob, who is regarded as the best source of information regarding the legalities of defensive shooting. There are many many classes devoted to teaching DEFENSIVE skills for when you are forced to pull the trigger. Most civilian classes will teach you things to keep you OUT of trouble with the law.

fm2176 · February 28, 2013

I think we've drifted quite a ways from the OP's question. Again, in my opinion, people should undergo whatever training they can afford to invest the time and money into. First, though, we have to take whatever training is mandated by the state/locality to get a concealed carry permit.

I've already shared my experiences in Virginia and Kentucky, but forgot to add that active duty military in the state of Georgia do not need a permit. If I'm not mistaken, Louisiana also waives the training requirements for military, but a staate ID card is required to get one (I checked into it but decided it was too much hassle since they recognize VA's). My Virginia permit expires next month, and I guess I'll attempt to renew it by mail. If that doesn't work, at least I can rest assured that I'll be able to legally arm myself when I get back to GA.

marksoldtowne · July 16, 2013

hi fm2176

These classes will help you immensely if you are a total beginner or even if you are an experienced shooter. You will learn more than just safety at home, on the range, in your car and with a holster. You will learn way to get "back to basics" to greatly increase your marksmanship, and learn the key to shoot instinctively.

8.1HD/ALLISON · August 3, 2013

Good info and opinions here. I have found a local place that does classes now, but probably won't have time to go till next year. 7 month old, kitchen remodel, and 3 weddings coming up, not to mention the most important time of year.... Hunting season! I will check back in when I get around to taking classes.