Oil Change Cost

danielLD · June 14, 2017

Why anyone would listen to Blackstone is beyond me, they are complete idiots who know nothing. I have even posted results proving they are not to be trusted.

Filters do not become better the more they are used, quite the opposite this is their job.

Using additives almost always increases wear. Short term benefits yes, long term benefits = damage.

Mook, you're better off not using Blackstone and not doing UOA. If you're getting bad service, why would you continue to get bad service? They have 0 certifications and they will never be able to get one. Any other lab has to have certifications or they don't even get considered for work. The reason Blackstone doesn't abide to standards is because they know no one will question them, they can get away with doing poor work and guys like you, who arn't in the UOA won't have a clue you're getting garbage, way over priced. I can name a bunch of labs that would give you Blackstone's data for $8.

I suggest you consider a better service and learn what UOA is really about. You don't need trending for UOA, any good analyst can tell you that.

danielLD · June 14, 2017

Mook, very few oils have anything more than 5ppm in silicon, Redline is the only one that comes to mind.

That is false information. When the additive in Redline for example breaks down, that silicon becomes abrasive. It's impossible to tell what's happening to your oil and engine as you have 1/10 of the testing needed for good UOA. So yes and no to better answer your statement. I would stay away from silicon high oils for this reason.

Did you bother to look at both reports I've posted? Changing labs is as easy as changing the mailing address on the sample jar, not so sure what's difficult in that.

edit: your insolubles would suggest otherwise, again they should be at 0.1% in a new engine. A customer of mine with a fairly new RC-F got an e-mail back from them saying that up to 0.6% in a new engine is normal. I hate to be a jerk or sound like one, but everytime I hear Blackstone open their mouth, I just cringe.

mookdoc6 · June 14, 2017

Mook, very few oils have anything more than 5ppm in silicon, Redline is the only one that comes to mind.

That is false information. When the additive in Redline for example breaks down, that silicon becomes abrasive. It's impossible to tell what's happening to your oil and engine as you have 1/10 of the testing needed for good UOA. So yes and no to better answer your statement. I would stay away from silicon high oils for this reason.

Did you bother to look at both reports I've posted? Changing labs is as easy as changing the mailing address on the sample jar, not so sure what's difficult in that.

edit: your insolubles would suggest otherwise, again they should be at 0.1% in a new engine. A customer of mine with a fairly new RC-F got an e-mail back from them saying that up to 0.6% in a new engine is normal. I hate to be a jerk or sound like one, but everytime I hear Blackstone open their mouth, I just cringe.

Daniel,

Do they not all follow ASTM on practices? Where can I get a UOA for reasonable amount of money that will give me a "qualified breakdown accurately of what is going on" Thanks, Mook!

danielLD · June 14, 2017

No one really knows lol

ASTM is the procedure in which the way the test is performed, ISO certification is an independent audit that you're following that procedure. I won't go too much in depth on them, usually their spectro work lines up with our, 3-4 few time's they've been off. Labs have problems and no one is perfect, but, being ISO certified, it gives you more trust in the results.

What is a reasonable amount of money? paying $43(with return shipping) for a Blackstone analysis leaves you completely blind.

Here are a few options amongst my competitors.

Dyson Analysis "Basic" $80 - Includes ICP(elements) + FTIR(to see active additives, timing conditions, A/F ratios, life) + TAN + TBN + GC(only way to see true % of gas in oil) + KF(only way to see true % of water and other factors in oil) + Viscosity 40,100 & Index.

Analabs IN SCHAUMBURG, IL. Do not use any other analabs, you don't even want to know why lol.

Scott Kegarise - ICP + TBN + Viscosity 100 - $11. He can do TAN, Flashpoint, Vs40, Index, KF and I believe FTIR, just don't know his prices on the other stuff.

I would suggest calling Terry first, 903-413-2071, talk to him a little bit about your report and just ask him why anyone should use anything different from Blackstone. He is the true master of this field, I am merely a parrot compared to him. Terry and I have no affliation, I would suggest you not mention my name to him, lol.

Scott Kegarise - 847-352-6780. Does a ton of fleet vehicles and trucks for multiple cities/states around the country.

mookdoc6 · June 14, 2017

No one really knows lol

ASTM is the procedure in which the way the test is performed, ISO certification is an independent audit that you're following that procedure. I won't go too much in depth on them, usually their spectro work lines up with our, 3-4 few time's they've been off. Labs have problems and no one is perfect, but, being ISO certified, it gives you more trust in the results.

What is a reasonable amount of money? paying $43(with return shipping) for a Blackstone analysis leaves you completely blind.

Here are a few options amongst my competitors.

Dyson Analysis "Basic" $80 - Includes ICP(elements) + FTIR(to see active additives, timing conditions, A/F ratios, life) + TAN + TBN + GC(only way to see true % of gas in oil) + KF(only way to see true % of water and other factors in oil) + Viscosity 40,100 & Index.

Analabs IN SCHAUMBURG, IL. Do not use any other analabs, you don't even want to know why lol.

Scott Kegarise - ICP + TBN + Viscosity 100 - $11. He can do TAN, Flashpoint, Vs40, Index, KF and I believe FTIR, just don't know his prices on the other stuff.

I would suggest calling Terry first, 903-413-2071, talk to him a little bit about your report and just ask him why anyone should use anything different from Blackstone. He is the true master of this field, I am merely a parrot compared to him. Terry and I have no affliation, I would suggest you not mention my name to him, lol.

Scott Kegarise - 847-352-6780. Does a ton of fleet vehicles and trucks for multiple cities/states around the country.

Daniel,

Thanks, I will look into it! I am quite familiar with ASTM, Specs, BOP'S & Sop's....certified vs qualified etc. I have seen people mention Dyson before......I myself being a "Noob" to oil Analysis am open for discussion. I myself believe that somebody needs much experience in this area and 1qty report is just that 1qty report. Thanks! much appreciated. Mook

danielLD · June 14, 2017

If there is someone that can prove to you that, 1 report is all you need, it's Terry Dyson. I mean it in all honestly, give that man a call, I promise you, you'll come back tonight with your mind blow with what he can do. Worst case is you learn something you never knew and I promise you after listening to him you'll never look at UOA the same. You might also, tell me I'm full of shit and I'd have to laugh since I know where that would have come from. lol

danielLD · June 14, 2017

Here is a reference of new M1EP 5W20. Between all the viscosities little ever changes, so the elements, BN, AN and FTIR values are pretty much the same even on 5W30, etc. Thought you'd enjoy it. Mobil 1 EP Reference..pdf

Mobil 1 EP Reference..pdf

Nanotech Environmental · June 14, 2017

Not to discount much of the input & knowledge etc.in this thread, but I've never done an oil analysis on any of my vehicles. Personally, never found the need for it.

sdeeter19555 · June 15, 2017

Wow, I'm out...some of the statements here are just WRONG.

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mookdoc6 · June 15, 2017

Wow, I'm out...some of the statements here are just WRONG.

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I would have to agree!

TxTruckMan · June 15, 2017

I still don't understand why people pay $45 to save $35 worth of oil...

StretchASU · June 15, 2017

Anyway...back on topic...$60 oil change and rotate at the small town dealer near the house.

sdeeter19555 · June 15, 2017

I still don't understand why people pay $45 to save $35 worth of oil...

If you do extended oil changes its worth it...the main thing is that "extended" means different things to different people. I extended all the oil changes on my 5.9 Cummins, most were around 30k miles when I dumped, some were 45k. At 3 gallons of oil and 7500 mile recommended change intervals, it paid for itself quite quickly.

And a typical UOA was $15 to get the results needed to determine if you could keep going. Once you know the limits that you could safely reach (say 50k miles and the oil is still good), then you can stop the UOA in future oil changes (you know you're good for 50k, so 30k and 45k will be safe) unless you change something (oil type or brand, bypass filter, etc.). I had 300k on that truck and it didn't use a drop of oil between changes, and that was running mostly CI-4+ and CJ-4 conventional Rotella. I ran the last truck on Schaeffers synthetic 5w40 and rarely changed oil, changed filters (full flow and bypass) every so often, but not the sump.

So it has its place, moreso in the commercial world. Some of us just can't leave well enough alone, and like to experiment.

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mookdoc6 · June 15, 2017

commercial world it probably has it's merits no doubt. I just wanted to see if 0W-20 was still excellent at 10K and as you can see it's A-OK and as for the other nonsense it's all expected.

Your ingression Pure Dirt! This engine has been absolutely pounded! Your going to kill it in no time! The copper is way to HIGH...spun Bearings like tomorrow after you pull it out of the garage.....Blah,Blah your Chromium is way to HIGH!

Look at the report.....The oil is exceptional at 10K that is my point! I will continue "same exact situation and post for you all to see next 10K" Shocking......Copper will drop, AL will stay the same and for the grand total of SI which could be confused with NA? it will be anywhere from 10-30 ppm who knows, who cares? It's not coming from ingression anyway......I will post after that another 10k change and will show you the significant drop in SI and explain why.......maybe Dyson will scold me but I need multiple reports/trending to MAKE EDUCATED DECISIONS! MOOK-OUT

All of this over.....3-5mls of crap in my 8qts.....gotta love this amusement!

danielLD · June 16, 2017

Mook,

it's funny how you have not called Dyson, you are not an industry pro, you trust blackstone and then you come back and make your statements. So tell me how much active additive is in your oil? TBN is not additive, so please tell me?

You guys are really funny, you can run an engine like shit for miles and miles. I put it this way, some people in life will become fat and live a 60-70 year life. some will eat healthy and live an 87 year life. Some will eat healthy and die at 25 because a bus ran them over.

Personally I'd rather try and make it to 85, then to be fat and just make it to 60-75, but I could be killed by a bus tomorrow.

Mook, I'm to the point where I don't know if I should continue, you clearly know NOTHING about UOA. A great analogy was once told to me, it's funny how in the medical world results are released to the doctor, the doctor makes recommendations and then the patient does as told. In the UOA, the results are given to the patient, he then interprets the results and tells the doctor what is wrong. lol

And then Terry used to tell me he was tired of proving himself, now I see what he was talking about. people behind a keyboard who think they know something when they don't, oh lol.

I dare you to call Terry, what do you have to lose? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? Of course basic psy. tells me you won't call out of a fear that you are wrong and I am right.

Oil analysis is not about prolonging oil life, but you guys have only ever used Blackstone, so you've never seen anything better. Ever wonder why they can not get certified and are not allowed to submit for government work........?

I suppose no one even looked at the report where they said "it looks like this engine sheers oil, but that's ok as there's not much wear" what a load of BS, couldn't even tell the oil was fine. I had to be the one to tell the customer your getting the wrong oil from your dealer. After 6 e-mails back and forth, accusing me of this and that, he called the day after to apologize. The dealership confirmed they had been putting in 5W20 instead of 5W30. They're making basic mistakes like that, what else are they doing?(oh wait, I know, they're ****ing people over)

sdeeter, please tell us what statements are wrong. very interested.......