Oil change intervals

diyer2 · October 6, 2018

Doublebase.

Grumpy Bear uses Red Line High Performance oil. Low NOAK.

This seems to be working well.

Doublebase · October 6, 2018

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

Doublebase.

Grumpy Bear uses Red Line High Performance oil. Low NOAK.

This seems to be working well.

Red Line is definitely considered top of the line oil. I wonder if the NOACK level of redline has helped?

diyer2 · October 6, 2018

I would think so.

Great oil it seems but to pricey for me.

1 minute ago, Doublebase said:

Red Line is definitely considered top of the line oil. I wonder if the NOACK level of redline has helped?

Grumpy Bear · October 6, 2018

2 hours ago, Doublebase said:

So what you're saying is, is that carbon buildup on DI engines either doesn't happen, or is not an issue. And you're saying that issues with DI engines do not exist.

I would not let oil go past 7,000 miles on an interval with DI. These guys are telling me that the particulates they are finding in the ring lands because of direct injection is worse than they see on Diesel engines. The rings are getting stuck and the consumption is through the roof. And they are very much participating in intake removal and valve cleaning, do to misfires, power loss...from carbon build up.

Please excuse the heavy editing of your post. We are looking at two different issues here. Correct? 1.) Valve deposit build up on the manifold side and 2.) stuck rings.

Never said build up was not an issue. Never said stuck rings was not an issue. I said it hasn't been an issue in my vehicles. Two of these well past the OMG it's gong to drop dead any minute 30K maker.

The question no one is asking is...…..?????

dyier2 gives a clue:

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

Doublebase.

Grumpy Bear uses Red Line High Performance oil. Low NOAK.

This seems to be working well.

Did you read my post titled Omeprazole? In one of the off topic threads I started. It was on the misconceptions people have about almost everything in their lives about products with the ability to alleviate some condition they find objectionable. In short, people don't take omeprazole to alleviate heartburn; it's taken so they can continue doing what their body is telling them is harming them. There's a Zantac commercial running as we speak telling people to take their product to prepare for heartburn taco night. Idiots!

It's no different with how we use machines or care for them. We want what we want regardless of the evidence that tells us otherwise.

While you, Doublebase, and I and many others are exacting in our maintenance habits the vast majority of owner/operators are not and it is from that pool of the ignorant and arrogant that the reality of the rumor becomes a fact.

I don't just use the best oil and filter I can afford. I change it like it's cost is irrelevant. I take Omeprazole and then add an additional layer of protection by staying away from those things that was hurting me to begin with. I use good oil and treat it like it isn't and drive like it's the last truck/car/bike/lawnmower I will ever buy....because.....it just might be. Guess what? It works and has for five decades.

My method and my choice of products is not the only answer. dyier2 gets great results using oil and filters that cost 1/3 of my cost and yet changes it almost twice as often. He enjoys the task, I do not.

I can see the draw to a catch can. But I also know that they do nothing for the rings. I also know that I don't have to trap what I don't allow to get in the manifold. My habits prevent as much 'gunk' as the device does. I know oil burner ring issues are soot related not GDI related.

I also posted a video at one time on GDI and how the newest generations of the architecture time the injection in a way that vastly reduces valve backside build up. The majority of the carbon build up comes from chamber side...not the manifold side. A condition called reversion the can boys don't talk about. ALL ICE motors suffer from it. Dry runner injection aggravates it but isn't the cause. It got laughed off and dismissed by those who need a reason to justify taking tummy pills and eating battery acid together.

Whatever. Quit the worry about being laughed at. Tongue in cheek go about your business. You will have the last laugh. Patients grasshopper.

Grumpy Bear · October 6, 2018

A thought that will make you smile Doublebase. I've used these products nearly 30 years and my standard change interval was always 7,500 miles. GDI being new to me and being a human I pay attention to the issues surrounding this tech and made a decision to shorten my intervals to 5,000 miles based on nothing but my gut and fear of the unknown. No big "S" on my chest.

Did a workup once, it's here on site somewhere, that showed that a $30K trucks cost over 5 years was $90-$100K ALL UNAVOIDABLE cost considered and left a residual value of $5k. I can buy a lot of oil and filters and antifreeze and gear oil and, and...and for the difference. If it will double the life of my equipment, and it has repeatedly, that saves another $100K.

BTW, if NOACH is your primary concern you could use Amsoil SIGNITURE SERIES as well. Another oil that I would consider. Likely can buy it cheaper from Nick right here on this site too. He's a supporting vendor who gives of his time knowledge freely.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Grumpy Bear

BigBlueLB756 · October 6, 2018

Patience; older life is no more than balancing side effects.

Affects us all.

Doublebase · October 6, 2018

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

A thought that will make you smile Doublebase. I've used these products nearly 30 years and my standard change interval was always 7,500 miles. GDI being new to me and being a human I pay attention to the issues surrounding this tech and made a decision to shorten my intervals to 5,000 miles based on nothing but my gut and fear of the unknown. No big "S" on my chest.

Did a workup once, it's here on site somewhere, that showed that a $30K trucks cost over 5 years was $90-$100K ALL UNAVOIDABLE cost considered and left a residual value of $5k. I can buy a lot of oil and filters and antifreeze and gear oil and, and...and for the difference. If it will double the life of my equipment, and it has repeatedly, that saves another $100K.

BTW, if NOACH is your primary concern you could use Amsoil SIGNITURE SERIES as well. Another oil that I would consider. Likely can buy it cheaper from Nick right here on this site too. He's a supporting vendor who gives of his time knowledge freely.

You seem to value maintenance and take pride in prolonging the life exptency of a vehicle, I do too.

You mentioned in another post that you can control what goes into your intake (probably by driving your vehicle responsibly and maintaining it correctly). You're going to disagree with me here, but I'm going to tell you that you can't. That you will be shocked at just what is going into your intake, through the PCV valve system, in a direct injection engine.

I too thought I could just "take it easy" on my gas pedal, maintain my new truck and I wouldn't experience half the stuff others do. Wrong. My 2018 Silverado - with only 15,000 easily driven, well maintained miles - experiences what I'd call pretty substantial oil/mist/fuel/blowby, entering my intake through my PCV system. I installed a catch can and I have been somewhat shocked at what it is catching. And I'm not talking water, I'm talking oil that looks as if it's been diluted with fuel (probably because it is ).

I was in a variable valve timing class last week, I asked the instructor what he thought of oil catch cans. He said he absolutely recommends them on any direct injection vehicle. That he has one himself. Then half the hands in the class went up, and they had the catch cans too. I've had mine for the last 2,000 miles or so.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Doublebase

Grumpy Bear · October 6, 2018

Doublebase wrote: (Quote)You mentioned in another post that you can control what goes into your intake (probably by driving your vehicle responsibly and maintaining it correctly). You're going to disagree with me here, but I'm going to tell you that you can't. (End Quote)

Let's try it this way Doublebase: That sir is a macro photo of my PCV hose interior. That's the engine side and the other end looks identical. Look carefully at the bottom of the well. Look at the seal and lock. Nothing gets into my manifold that does not go through this hose from the crankcase. Agreed? It will pass for NEW it is that clean. So....what's a can going to trap? My methods are sound and work. 78,600 miles of proof your looking at.

Ask your instructor how any mist, oil, water, fuel or otherwise gets to the can without leaving a trace in the path is used to get there?

Ask him how good he thinks my ring seal is? Ask if he thinks my oil is protecting well enough and cleanly enough.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Grumpy Bear
additional content

diyer2 · October 6, 2018

Impressive Grumpy.

Grumpy Bear · October 7, 2018

4 hours ago, diyer2 said:

Impressive Grumpy.

Know what's impressive diyer2? The ring seal that permits this to be true. I'm an idiot without a clue.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Grumpy Bear

Doublebase · October 7, 2018

11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Know what's impressive diyer2? The ring seal that permits this to be true. I'm an idiot without a clue.

Well first off, grumpy, I don't think anyone is calling you an idiot, so I don't think you need to get self conscious or defensive about it. Everything is going to be ok. If not you have your methods. Lol.

The hose you show there does look very impressive. It's in a vice, correct? You removed it and placed it in a vice? Nice.

That hose - at least on the 5.3 engine - goes from the crankcase to the intake. The hose goes up. At least on my vehicle gravity easily allows any oil to flow back down into the crankcase. I have removed mine and I will admit mine does not look as clean as yours (although depending on a number of factors I imagine they wouldn't look the same).

Here's mine (top and bottom. Top is spotless. Gravity drains the oil back down to the bottom where it shows a little bit of a trace of oil staining, nothing major)

Now i I can tell you that this, this hose, looks totally different than what I catch in my catch can, and what it looked like inside my intake (prior to the catch can). I emptied my catch can last week. I'll have to post a picture of what I'll catch after 1,000 miles, on an easily driven, well maintained vehicle with 15,000 miles on it.

You evidently do have some sort of outstanding driving and maintenance methods if you are avoiding this. And to that, congratulations. You are doing something that I personally could not.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Doublebase

Centex14 · October 7, 2018

I change my oil at 6000 miles using whatever the dealer puts in. No catch can for a 117k miles. Gets beat on almost daily. No oil in the intake. Guess I’m a lucky one?

2014 z71 LTZ
Volant Intake
Borla Exhaust
Diablo
Bilstein 5100
Rough Country Level

BigBlueLB756 · October 7, 2018

Is your AFM/DOD turned off by the diablo?

Crobinson16 · October 7, 2018

18 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Know what's impressive diyer2? The ring seal that permits this to be true. I'm an idiot without a clue.

That is very true, ring seal is a large factor. What do you contribute to be the factor in your great ring seal.

Grumpy Bear · October 7, 2018

10 hours ago, Doublebase said:

The hose you show there does look very impressive. It's in a vice, correct? You removed it and placed it in a vice? Nice.

Yes in a vice. I needed both hands for the camera and lights. I wanted you to see the plastic all the way to the basement was dry as a desert bone.

Quote

At least on my vehicle gravity easily allows any oil to flow back down into the crankcase. I have removed mine and I will admit mine does not look as clean as yours (although depending on a number of factors I imagine they wouldn't look the same).

Right to the end. Okay well look again. Oil has never been in that hose. Ever. You can run a gun patch through it and come up empty. Totally dry. Totally clean.

Quote

You evidently do have some sort of outstanding driving and maintenance methods if you are avoiding this. And to that, congratulations. You are doing something that I personally could not.

Thank you. But don't sell yourself short. Anyone can. It's a matter of choice...don't you think?

3 hours ago, Crobinson16 said:

That is very true, ring seal is a large factor. What do you contribute to be the factor in your great ring seal.

Oh boy! It's a great question but it's a dangerous one to answer. People are passionate about this topic.

Let me ask two questions that may be a bit less dangerous. What makes a ring seal? If you get that one answered try the following. Which seal is more important; the one between the ring and cylinder wall OR the one between the ring and the ring land?

Edited October 7, 2018 by Grumpy Bear