6.0 oil change interval

[Cowpie]

1 hour ago, EZTundra77 said:

They dont analyze Redline.  The Volatility of the pennzoil is definately lower.  But the TBN is also lower. I believe that TBN is always lower on conventional.  the Viscosity Index index is much lower on the pennzoil vs Mobil 1.  It seems like you found a great conventional motor oil for your wife's caddy.  Certainly not trying to get you to switch.  But after reading this PQIA study, I think full synth. is worth the extra dough

 

The key is knowning what the various parts of the add pack do.  TBN is a relative number. It offers a general overall view of the motor oil’s ability to control acids, but that is about it.  A high TBN oil can go longer in terms of controlling acids, but will the polymeric viscosity modifiers also hold up as long as the TBN?  What of particulate buildup over time and wear metals?  TBN does nothing for that. TBN or even the base oil will not help if fuel or coolant dilution happens.

 

do you know what molybdenum and boron are for in an add pack and how they work together?  Neither has any relation to TBN but are very beneficial.   One of the key additions to a strong add pack.  How about zinc in conjunction with phosphorus?  Again, neither are a factor of TBN but are required in any group of motor oil..... synthetic or conventional, gas or diesel rated. 

 

And there is calcium and sodium in varying degrees depending on the proprietary formulation. Those do affect TBN.

[EZTundra77]

45 minutes ago, Cowpie said:

The key is knowning what the various parts of the add pack do.  TBN is a relative number. It offers a general overall view of the motor oil’s ability to control acids, but that is about it.  A high TBN oil can go longer in terms of controlling acids, but will the polymeric viscosity modifiers also hold up as long as the TBN?  What of particulate buildup over time and wear metals?  TBN does nothing for that. TBN or even the base oil will not help if fuel or coolant dilution happens.

 

do you know what molybdenum and boron are for in an add pack and how they work together?  Neither has any relation to TBN but are very beneficial.   One of the key additions to a strong add pack.  How about zinc in conjunction with phosphorus?  Again, neither are a factor of TBN but are required in any group of motor oil..... synthetic or conventional, gas or diesel rated. 

 

And there is calcium and sodium in varying degrees depending on the proprietary formulation. Those do affect TBN.

Sure.  I admittedly dont know the specifics about add packs.  I know they're important.  But I do know a little about viscosity index and such a difference seems noteworthy.  

 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, Cowpie said:

Only if you want to pay for my fuel!   Let's see..... I spend about $60,000 a year on diesel fuel alone.  A heavy truck engine uses about 1-1.5 gallons of diesel per hour idling.  Saving every bit I can makes a difference.  I only leave the truck running in the most extreme of cold conditions, and that is only to keep diesel fuel from gelling or freezing in extreme cold.  Even then, all of my vehicles have oil pan warmers on them.  If my pickup, the wife's Cadillac, or my compact tractor is going to sit shut off in extreme cold, the pan warmer keeps the oil flowing like a warm summer day at startup. Even the syntethic oil that gets used in the pickup.  And since it is argued that 90% of engine wear occurs at start up, why wouldn't anyone use oil sump warmers whenever possible?   Yet hardly anyone does.  They really don't use much electricity.   Folks will drop thousands of dollars on useless crap on their vehicle but wouldn't shell out a C-note or even less for good oil pan warmer if their life depended on it.  Such is the American mindset.

 

Using sensible practices is why when I lived in the interior of Alaska for 10 years, I only used a conventional 10w30 year round.  How is that possible at -55F?   By using block heater, battery warmer, and oil sump warmer.  My 1979 Ford Bronco 351M lasted all of those 10 years and I sold it eventually when I moved to Colorado later.    Worse that vehicle ever experienced was a real cold snap of -72F (we never used the wind chill nonsense the goes on down here in the lower 48, only actual temperatures). Started right up with instant oil pressure.  

Cliff:

 

A few questions please. 1.) Automatic transmission pans as well? 2.) How much wattage is 'enough' to warm the pan(s) but not so much as to raise the oil temperature say over 212 F ish. 3.) Stick on pad type not immersion, correct? 4.) Have a favorite vendor (brand)?

 

This has been on my to do list for a while for Pepper as she sits outside 24/7/365 and I'm betting that winter fuel consumption would be lower by a considerable margin if she were plugged in the night before. 

 

Thanks in advance for any insights

 

Regards

Marty

[diyer2]

I had a engine  block heater on a previous truck.

Similar to this

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/kats-circulation-tank-heater-12010/11290109-p?c3ch=PLA&c3nid=11290109-P&adtype=pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxsC0mcyi4AIVxbfACh2OYwCEEAQYAyABEgKI5fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Hooks into your heater hoses.

Easy install and removal or repair compared to a block heater that requires removal of a freeze plug.

Heats the whole engine.

Faster warm up than an oil heater IMO.

With today's synthetic oil not as much concern.

Trans heater a personal choice.

 

Another choice for a block heater.

Never had one.

https://www.powermasterinc.com/hot-start-tps-heaters?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw9r888ai4AIV1brACh2C4QvvEAAYASAAEgJ4tfD_BwE

 

 

 

 

[Cowpie]

Marty, I bought local when in Alaska.  Down here I have gotten my pads from Wolverine Heater.  But now I see they are defaulting on the website to Phillips&Temro which is the manufacturer.   You can look on these sites and see what the dimensions of various pads are, the amount of oil they are designed to warm up, the wattage they use, etc.   They are stick on pads meant only for metal sump pans.  

 

You can also have any pad you use on a timer.  Have it come on a couple of hours before you go anywhere in the morning and the pads will have things warmed up.

 

https://www.wolverineheater.com/collections/all-heaters

 

You probably can find similar dimension and wattage products online at Amazon or can get thru O'Reilly's or Napa under various labels such as Kat's, ZeroStart, etc.

 

The 50 watt unit on the Wolverine page probably would be great for automatic trans sump.   I never have put one on a auto trans.  When I lived in Alaska, I had a manual 4 speed in my Bronco.  I haven't really given it a lot of thought till you brought it up.

 

diyer2, what we are talking about is oil sump warmers, not engine warmers.  No one is trying to warm up an engine via a oil sump warmer.  We're talking about keeping the fluid in the sump warm.  No block heater or any other coolant circulation heater will warm up the oil in the sump except only a slight amount.  The pan will dissipate any warmth quickly.  But that is what oil sump pans are designed to do.

 

And it all depends on the level of cold one is dealing with.    I don't care what synthetic brand anyone uses, at the actual -55F temps I experienced in Alaska frequently, no oil is going to move well.   The standardized maximum CCS limit of even a 0w20 full synthetic is -35c / -31F.   This last cold snap in Illinois went below that temp.   Below -31F, even a 0w20 will exceed the manufacturers CCS maximum limits.   One would have to warm it up to get within the OEM CCS guidelines for the motor.  The oil may say it has a pour point lower than -31F, but the Cold Crank Viscosity below -31F will exceed the API and OEM CCS parameters.  You will effectively be trying to move a very viscus fluid.   Oh, something like a 5w20 or 5w30, the lower limit to meet the OEM CCS maximum is -30c / -22F.  Below that and one should warm the oil.    I am fond of 10w30 (conventional and synthetic) in many of my applications.  There we are talking about -25c / -13F, and below that the oil needs warmed to meet the proper CCS.  This is why I use heater pads extensively in the winter months.

 

Everyone has to make up their own mind and live within their comfort zone.

 

Cliff

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

GM has also in their infinite wisdom 'nutted' block heaters to not work below X temp. (Don't remember the number). Bypassing that thermostat or using a hose heater tosses a code that compares ambient and water temperatures on start up. I think it's like 30 F? Still effective in the extreme cold. Factory kit available for that. 

 

Anyway, Cliff is on the money. Not worried about water or block temperatures but lubricant temperatures. MOST of the poor winter mileage reductions can be attributed to that first 20 minutes of operation on cold start. Side note, Dad use to make a nice piece of change each winter from replacements of snapped oil pump shafts. Guys hitting the load pedal while the oil was still molasses. 

 

I'll check out those sources. Thanks both of you. 

[diyer2]

I understand the differences between heaters.

The non stamped metal oil pans of today make it hard to stick a heat pad on.

 

The block heater worked for me and with conventional oil then.

Now being retired I stay home if it's real cold, the roads are a mess or it's snowing.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, diyer2 said:

 

Now being retired I stay home if it's real cold, the roads are a mess or it's snowing.

 

Me too! 

 

It will get below zero here at least once every other year and some times for years consecutively. Teens, low twenties below but it is a rare one to hit negative 30  plus. Records in point of fact.  It got cold enough this time to make me worry if the -34 F antifreeze a 50/50 mix will provide would be enough. Mine tested prewinter about -28 F right in the premixed bottle. I didn't adjust it because....it never gets that cold here. Well my exact location hit only -26 F. A bit thin for my comfort. 

 

That had me thinking that while I no longer have the need to drive when it is that cold....what if I did? What other things could I be doing to help? New or not the starter turns at a snails pace at that temperature. Oil is like tar at 35 below even with 0W20. Battery heater, oil heater, trans pan, stiffer water mix. Yes perhaps even a block heater. 

 

Then I wondered how those who live in areas that are much worse get it done and low and behold. Cliff shows up. Our very own Ice Road Trucker. Literally!!  

[Cowpie]

Well, I do cheat a little now.   My pickup and my wife's Cadillac sit in a heated garage when not being used.  So I get to mitigate some of what I did in Alaska.  But all my commercial stuff, you bet..... oil pan warmers, block heaters, on board Xantrex battery charger, etc.  Even a fuel fired cab/sleeper heater operating when the heavy truck is shut off.  Engine stays warm.  Oil Stays warm.  The interior stays warm.  Diesel fuel stays warm.  Batteries multi phase fully charged and monitored.  All plugged in when the truck is at home.  

 

Webasto makes diesel/gasoline fired coolant heaters also.  You can have one installed on a pickup and set on a timer.  In one hour it will have the coolant at 160F.   Uses very little battery power.  Even if you left it running all the time (no need to) it would only use about 1 gallon in a 10 hr period.  So plugging in is not the only option going.  For the diesel crowd, the heated coolant could be routed to also keep DEF and fuel warm right along with the engine.  It doesn't get any better than that.

 

https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-us/heating-solutions/light-medium-duty-work-vehicles/coolant-heaters/

 

There are tons of options to get the job done.  No need to only use the old plug in heater game.