Air filter, cabin filter, fuel induction service needed???

JimCost2014 · October 14, 2019

On 10/14/2019 at 1:08 PM, dukedkt442 said:

That’s all the reason I need to never do an induction or valve cleaning. Why? “Because they say it couldn’t be done.” Cue the Bandit-Snowman memes.

Sometimes you just have to go "Eastbound and down" on some of the recommendations.....

16LT4 · October 15, 2019

2 hours ago, JimCost2014 said:

Sometimes you juts have to go "Eastbound and down" on some of the recommendations.....

If I went anymore East I’d be in the Atlantic.

Anyone have engine dyno slips pre and post valve cleaning? Or is this just more Internet forum, weekend warrior hyperbole?

Doublebase · October 16, 2019

On 10/14/2019 at 10:28 AM, Nitrousbird said:

You are not getting the proper synthetic oil for $11 at 5 quarts. I do my own oil changes too but isn't that cheap to do it right.

You sure could this year...Pennzoil was running a rebate early in the year (buy it at Walmart for 22, get a 10 dollar rebate). I jumped on that. Pennzoil Platinum for $12? No brainer. Then Rotella ran a rebate right after...goes till the end of the year...same rebate. I've been using that for the past five months. I'll do one more before the year is out. And Mobil 1 also was running the same rebate (that ended in September).

So it is very possible to pay $11-$12 for 5 quarts on a brand name Dexos approved synthetic, especially this year. I'm sure it's better than whatever house brand they're throwing in it at the dealer. Now if we're talking about Amsoil or Redline, that's a different story (you're not going to get that stuff for $12 bucks). But any of the off the shelf name brands usually run some sort of rebate every year, you just have to know it's there (check on bob is the oil guy - they have a section on their site that tells you when the rebates are running). And you do get your rebate checks...it's not a scam...all of the oil companies have sent me checks (Mobil was the slowest, Rotella/Shell was by far the fastest). But just don't do what I did once this year...leave two checks from Pennzoil in your kitchen drawer and forget to cash them...and that's why they run the rebates...they know most aren't going to bother and the other half are going to forget to cash the checks:(

Bob2C · October 16, 2019

You sure could this year...Pennzoil was running a rebate early in the year (buy it at Walmart for 22, get a 10 dollar rebate). I jumped on that. Pennzoil Platinum for $12? No brainer. Then Rotella ran a rebate right after...goes till the end of the year...same rebate. I've been using that for the past five months. I'll do one more before the year is out. And Mobil 1 also was running the same rebate (that ended in September).

So it is very possible to pay $11-$12 for 5 quarts on a brand name Dexos approved synthetic, especially this year. I'm sure it's better than whatever house brand they're throwing in it at the dealer. Now if we're talking about Amsoil or Redline, that's a different story (you're not going to get that stuff for $12 bucks). But any of the off the shelf name brands usually run some sort of rebate every year, you just have to know it's there (check on bob is the oil guy - they have a section on their site that tells you when the rebates are running). And you do get your rebate checks...it's not a scam...all of the oil companies have sent me checks (Mobil was the slowest, Rotella/Shell was by far the fastest). But just don't do what I did once this year...leave two checks from Pennzoil in your kitchen drawer and forget to cash them...and that's why they run the rebates...they know most aren't going to bother and the other half are going to forget to cash the checks:(

Been doing the rebates for years. As soon as the checks come I deposit them. Never missed one. Can’t tell you how much I saved doing my own maintenance and buying oil on rebates throughout the years. Never had an issue with any of my cars.

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Doublebase · October 16, 2019

On 10/14/2019 at 3:51 PM, durandetto said:

The fuel induction cleaning is super important on these engines. This is what my valves look like on my '15 with 70k on it and I just ran a couple cans of BG intake cleaner through it last week. Better to start now and stay on top of it. I bought my truck with 67k so I have to make up for lost time.

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Pretty easy to take the intake off? I think what I might consider doing in the future is just removing the intake and perform a manual cleaning of the valves...maybe at 60,000 miles.

I run a catch can - you should see what I pull out of that thing - and I do run an "induction cleaner" through my PCV valve hose every 10,000 miles, however I have ZERO confidence that cleaner does one ounce of anything. Zip. Nada. Nothing. Honestly the only reason I do it is because it makes me feel good and it's free. That's it.

But I would be interested in removing the intake and doing a manual cleaning every few years - now that would be a lot more enticing if to remove the intake was a half hour job - so I'm hoping that's all it is...because it'll still take me another hour to clean the valves...maybe more. So I'd like the entire job to take 2 hours...a nice weekend/couple beers/enjoyable, type of thing. I don't want it to be a...smash my hands, crap everywhere, broken bolt, get out the torches, break out the JB Weld...type of weekend.

durandetto · October 16, 2019

Intake comes off in less than 30 min. The hardest part is cleaning the valves. All I could manage to do is spray some intake cleaner down there and let it soak. I guess with a bendable long brush you could probably do a decent job. After seeing what my valves looked like I ordered an elite e2 catch can and CSS last night.

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Grumpy Bear · October 16, 2019

On 10/14/2019 at 2:51 PM, durandetto said:

The more photos of see of motors like this 70 thousand mile unit the LESS reason I have to consider a Catch Can.

Even less reason to consider "Induction Services".

Cabin and intake filters kind of depend on the area where you drive. I get by with longer intervals than the farmers in my area that live on dirt and gravel roads. I live rual paved and 25K seems about right for both. I could actually clean the cabin filter and reinstall knocking the leaves and bees out of it. It isn't that big a job. Buying the Torx driver was harder.

Doublebase · October 16, 2019

10 hours ago, durandetto said:

Intake comes off in less than 30 min. The hardest part is cleaning the valves. All I could manage to do is spray some intake cleaner down there and let it soak. I guess with a bendable long brush you could probably do a decent job. After seeing what my valves looked like I ordered an elite e2 catch can and CSS last night.

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Thanks. I wonder if a walnut blasting kit would be worth while? I don't think they're that much and I now have a few friends that own direct injection cars (I could probably split the price with them).

I've seen a guy take an attachment to a drill (long flexible shaft with a metal brush on the end) and work it around the valves...hat would probably be a lot easier/neater/cheaper, than the walnut blaster.

Good to know it's an easy removal to get that intake off!

durandetto · October 16, 2019

The hardest part is the wire harness attached to the back of the intake cover. A couple of the bolts on the back of the passenger side are a little tricky, but not too bad. Gaskets are around $30 so not horrible. You could reuse them, but it's not worth the potential issues if one gets a small tear or something. It appears they're dealer only still and with the strike they could be hard to find.

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Doublebase · October 16, 2019

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

The more photos of see of motors like this 70 thousand mile unit the LESS reason I have to consider a Catch Can.

Even less reason to consider "Induction Services".

Cabin and intake filters kind of depend on the area where you drive. I get by with longer intervals than the farmers in my area that live on dirt and gravel roads. I live rual paved and 25K seems about right for both. I could actually clean the cabin filter and reinstall knocking the leaves and bees out of it. It isn't that big a job. Buying the Torx driver was harder.

Actually I'm surprised you don't run a can, you're very meticulous and someone that I'd consider an over maintainer of vehicles (that's a compliment). You'd be the ultimate catch can test study...you'd actually document before and after results. The cans are easy to install, relatively inexpensive, won't damage anything, very easy to maintain. Would love to see someone like you document it on your build thread.

Grumpy Bear · October 16, 2019

1 hour ago, Doublebase said:

Actually I'm surprised you don't run a can, you're very meticulous and someone that I'd consider an over maintainer of vehicles (that's a compliment). You'd be the ultimate catch can test study...you'd actually document before and after results. The cans are easy to install, relatively inexpensive, won't damage anything, very easy to maintain. Would love to see someone like you document it on your build thread.

Taken as a complement. Thank you.

A study. Well, such an endeavor would need a benchmark. Something that says it's use is meaningful or advantageous. To know what that might be I would first have to not use one and fail the benchmark then repeat exceeding by some meaningful measure past the failure.

In other words I need to continue my present course until the motor fails some expectation, then repeat and exceed the that marker by some magnitude that says the device 'adds value' for the average person.

Cleanliness, in and of itself would not qualify as such a bench mark unless it's lack hinders something operational. Such as a drastic reduction in fuel efficiency for example. Something supporters of the device claim universally. At which time we pull the manifold and document and assign 'root cause'. Restore the OEM condition, fit a can and repeat. Does that sound about right?

If so then I'm 100K into the first stage and still gaining fuel efficiency. According to the Ford Class Action Suit on EPA mileage estimates the sides have agreed on 150K as a definition of a motors "Lifetime". Guess that would mean if I make it to 150K then I've already proved there is no added value for the product. I have but 45K to the finish line.

But I can't stop until it fails or else we have nothing to gauge results? If I make to 150K without a failure then we already have our result, correct?

If there is nothing there you disagree with then let the games begin!!

Doublebase · October 17, 2019

18 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Taken as a complement. Thank you.

A study. Well, such an endeavor would need a benchmark. Something that says it's use is meaningful or advantageous. To know what that might be I would first have to not use one and fail the benchmark then repeat exceeding by some meaningful measure past the failure.

In other words I need to continue my present course until the motor fails some expectation, then repeat and exceed the that marker by some magnitude that says the device 'adds value' for the average person.

Cleanliness, in and of itself would not qualify as such a bench mark unless it's lack hinders something operational. Such as a drastic reduction in fuel efficiency for example. Something supporters of the device claim universally. At which time we pull the manifold and document and assign 'root cause'. Restore the OEM condition, fit a can and repeat. Does that sound about right?

If so then I'm 100K into the first stage and still gaining fuel efficiency. According to the Ford Class Action Suit on EPA mileage estimates the sides have agreed on 150K as a definition of a motors "Lifetime". Guess that would mean if I make it to 150K then I've already proved there is no added value for the product. I have but 45K to the finish line.

But I can't stop until it fails or else we have nothing to gauge results? If I make to 150K without a failure then we already have our result, correct?

If there is nothing there you disagree with then let the games begin!!

Stop your first stage at 100,000 miles and begin your tests there. You know your truck will make it to 150,000 miles, as you and your family have a history of high mileage vehicles.

Remove the intake (photograph), clean the valves and install the catch can. Document cleanliness and fuel economy...and then coincide them together. Remove the intake after 25,000 miles, document/photograph, then make projections based on carbon buildup (or no buildup).

You can tell us if fuel economy actually increased, decreased or did not change at all. You already have a very thorough fuel economy documented history, you can compare it to those numbers...various months...various temperatures...various driving conditions. You can debunk the claims of catch can manufacturers or prove the benefits that they claim (and perhaps add a few of your own).

At the very least it sure would be interesting, and lets face it...in vehicle ownership we all need things to be a little interesting, it keeps us going. It makes ownership more rewarding.

Grumpy Bear · October 17, 2019

11 minutes ago, Doublebase said:

Stop your first stage at 100,000 miles and begin your tests there. You know your truck will make it to 150,000 miles, as you and your family have a history of high mileage vehicles.

Remove the intake (photograph), clean the valves and install the catch can. Document cleanliness and fuel economy...and then coincide them together. Remove the intake after 25,000 miles, document/photograph, then make projections based on carbon buildup (or no buildup).

You can tell us if fuel economy actually increased, decreased or did not change at all. You already have a very thorough fuel economy documented history, you can compare it to those numbers...various months...various temperatures...various driving conditions. You can debunk the claims of catch can manufacturers or prove the benefits that they claim (and perhaps add a few of your own).

At the very least it sure would be interesting, and lets face it...in vehicle ownership we all need things to be a little interesting, it keeps us going. It makes ownership more rewarding.

From May 28, 2019 to October 10, 2019 I drove a distance of 13,381 miles, 4-1/2 months. Used 439.55 gallons of fuel for an average of 30.4 mpg. Over the last full calendar year she has posted 29.0 mpg. The CC manufactures tell us that this is not possible and that damage is reflected in MPG will happen as soon as 30K.

See our problem here? We haven't any failure to gauge any future improvement against. I have an impossible number to beat that is still on the rise given the 3% per 10,000 mile constant improvement over the full 100K. Until that stops anything we do will show an improvement. We shouldn't pay into a stacked deck. A marketer would do that. A scientist would not.

Stopping now without a corresponding bench value tells us no more than 'sweeping the floor makes the floor cleaner". We already know that.

Grumpy Bear · October 17, 2019

Additional thought. You've conceded that Pepper will likely reach 150K at least matching the industry standard motor, powertrain Lifetime.

The question is, given that stipulation, isn't will it keep her insides cleaner but rather what the added value is for adding the CC?

Doublebase · October 17, 2019

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Additional thought. You've conceded that Pepper will likely reach 150K at least matching the industry standard motor, powertrain Lifetime.

The question is, given that stipulation, isn't will it keep her insides cleaner but rather what the added value is for adding the CC?

I think I'm just looking at things in terms of much longer term than 150,000 miles . And I think that is where the value of a catch can will come into play (if there is any value and there isn't much evidence of that). I think what I'll do is try to document - with intake removed - how the valves look compared to photos I keep seeing popping up on here and other places...if it's noticeably better I'll probably keep my catch can running...and if it really isn't? I'll tear the thing off and just keep up with manual cleanings every 60k or so (I'm crazy with maintenance).