Oil additives in 0w20

[Pipefitter248]

Thanks everyone I changed my oil this morning and added no additives. Only running 8 quarts of ow20 pennzoil platinum

[Rick Hunter-Wolff]

My 17Silverado 5.3 developed the dreaded lifter tap at idle. With nothing to lose, I did the Utube hack. Removed a liter of oil and added a liter of ATF ( GM, of course). Three weeks later: did complete oil and filter with my usual Dexos 0/20. All quiet. 260,000 kilometers

[Adm12]

I’m anASE Certified GM Heavy End Mechanic…I’ve R&R’d so many engines and from MY EXPERIENCE…engine that have had pins oil in them or one of the biggest failing engine engines. Lots of scoring lots of metal shavings pins all its terrible oil. The next terrible oil is Quaker State. Do not use either of those. I’ve torn down a couple of engines with mobile one. One of the main reasons for failure on AFM engines is waiting too long for oil changes. If you will change your oil at 5000 miles with mobile one you will never ever have an engine problem on an AFM engine. STP oil treatment is one of the greatest things ever invented. It contains ZDDP. The MAIN function of ZDDP is it costs critical engine parts and provides a very slight coating on all your engine parts eliminating wear…this is EXTRAORDINARY for AFM lifters and cams…. ALSO, THROW THAT PENNZOIL AWAY!! That is the WORST OIL you could possibly use…might as well put 8 quarts of water in your engine…secondly, Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer clogs oil pumps. 
use Mobil 1, 0/20W oil with 2 bottles of STP Oil Treatment, change your oil every 7500-10,000 miles, DON’T DELETE just change your oil BEFORE IT BECOMES DIRTY AND THICK and you will NEVER have an engine issue.

[tbarn]

Penzoil for decades. Never an engine issue.

[Z45]

Quote

STP oil treatment is one of the greatest things ever invented. It contains ZDDP.

You were making some sense to me about oil in the yellow bottle until you said the above.  I would never put ANY oil additive in my engine, its foolishness.

 

Pennzoil I would never use. Had a fleet vehicle and could only go to quick lubes that took our fleet card. The convenient shop near my home was a Pennzoil. My suburban was using 2 qts of oil per change of 5,000 miles and I put on 2500 miles a month (GPS DOT Surveyor). I found a different shop that would accept the fleet card and they carried Havoline. Went 5,000 miles and only down 1/2 qt. Never put in Pennzoil again and it never used more than a qt in 5,000 miles. 

Edited February 3, 2025 by Z45

[Black02Silverado]

Considering how much better oil has become, it still amazes me that one would spend the extra money on an additive instead of just putting in a high quality synthetic.  Marketing is sure is working for those additive companies it seems.

[diyer2]

No need for additives IMO.

There's a sucker born every minute. Old saying.

I add

There' an idiot born every 61 seconds.

[Grumpy Bear]

5 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

Considering how much better oil has become,

 

Can you quantify this statement?

Specifics please. 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

"Better" is a funny word. Implies improvement in excellence or improvement in quality. Some issues with this idea are 1.) both excellence and quality are normally subjective and abstract terms. 2.) Better is transitory by definition if you keep mind that BEST is the goal. i.e. there is always something better??? 

 

One can eliminate some of the fuzzy logic for this word by establishing a standard or reference. Problem with that method is that it, by definition as above, 1.) is a snake eating its own tail.  Transitory once the standard is met and a new standard defined. 2.) The standard itself is arbitrary and not often definitive. 3.) Unless the subject of better is limited to a single attribute it's meaning becomes compromised. 4.) The standard for better can and will become subject to ideologies driven by regulation, profit, power, market share, brand recognition, blah, blah, blah. 5.) Something as complicated as oil has a myriad of attributes that are, more often than not, in direct opposition to each other. 

 

IF better bends it's will to #4 above, the entire vocabulary becomes corrupt. i.e. it looses meaning, becomes dilute and functionally unresponsive. So...

 

6 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

Considering how much better oil has become,

 

 Again, quantify please and be specific. 

[KARNUT]

20 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

"Better" is a funny word. Implies improvement in excellence or improvement in quality. Some issues with this idea are 1.) both excellence and quality are normally subjective and abstract terms. 2.) Better is transitory by definition if you keep mind that BEST is the goal. i.e. there is always something better??? 

 

One can eliminate some of the fuzzy logic for this word by establishing a standard or reference. Problem with that method is that it, by definition as above, 1.) is a snake eating its own tail.  Transitory once the standard is met and a new standard defined. 2.) The standard itself is arbitrary and not often definitive. 3.) Unless the subject of better is limited to a single attribute it's meaning becomes compromised. 4.) The standard for better can and will become subject to ideologies driven by regulation, profit, power, market share, brand recognition, blah, blah, blah. 5.) Something as complicated as oil has a myriad of attributes that are, more often than not, in direct opposition to each other. 

 

IF better bends it's will to #4 above, the entire vocabulary becomes corrupt. i.e. it looses meaning, becomes dilute and functionally unresponsive. So...

 

 

 Again, quantify please and be specific. 

Gee Grumpy I used STP before synthetic, Amsoil. Even slick 50 comes to mind. So you don’t think oil has improved since then? When did it quit getting better. I thought you liked Restore and Protect from Valvoline? Maybe you should specify. 

Edited February 3, 2025 by KARNUT

[Grumpy Bear]

6 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Gee Grumpy I used STP before synthetic, Amsoil. Even slick 50 comes to mind. So you don’t think oil has improved since then? When did it quit getting better. I thought you liked Restore and Protect from Valvoline? Maybe you should specify. 

 

Were you feeling ignored? Thanks for the interjection....

 

No, i don't, but as Nick thought it funny, I'll let him go first. I see he's reading but not replying.

 

I'll offer this much as a dough starter. We HAD very good bases more than 50 years ago. We don't use them and it isn't because someone found them deficient. They found them less profitable. It was what the Castrol/OXM war was fought over. Since then marketing has smeared them with misinformation and disinformation which I have repeatedly pointed out over the years I've posted here and substituted some very good bases with much cheaper and less effective ones once the LAW and SCIENCE was rewritten to allow pleather to be called leather and reformed oils to be called synthetic while keeping Joe Schmoe in the dark. 

 

m-POA and GTL are newer and largely unremarkable. The former because few use it and the later because of limited supply, narrow viscosity range and there are others that perform better. We have classes of renewables the API fights tooth fang and claw. Add regulators reversing 50 years of additive technology and no clear replacement....yea. We peaked a few decades ago. The rest is smoke and mirrors. In example, Dexos1Gen3 cleanliness standards for the license are a fractional improvement that any polar oil has been beating by twenty fold for about 70 years. Straight up dog and pony show silly. 

 

Mobil 1 at one time was a world benchmark. Now it's competing at Wally World on it's laurels. Priced and performing like most other Big Box Store oils. 90% of which I wouldn't run half the OEM severe schedule. It is pitiful. Almost criminal. 

 

 

 

[diyer2]

Here we go again. 

[KARNUT]

I have a very unique test I’ve run on my avalanche. I didn’t pay much for it, had it 5 years now. I wouldn’t really care if the engine failed. It would be a good excuse to modify. The wife wouldn’t blink an eye because it’s cheaper than another truck. The test. So far I’ve used several different brands of oil. Doing it myself Amsoil. Valvoline, Mobile One and the dealer. The oil pressure gauge starts to drop at idle and cruising after 4K miles. Not much but noticeable. The color on the dipstick stays clear, almost invisible. I change it shortly after. 

[Grumpy Bear]

On 2/4/2025 at 7:06 AM, diyer2 said:

Here we go again. 

 

It would be easier if the search feature was used. But alas, no joy so, they keep asking and I keep answering. 

 

It seems there is a belief that IF you ask the question often enough the answer will change. 

[Grumpy Bear]

Manipulative Behavior I

(Crafty Acts)

 

 

Let's start with something truly simple. 0W20...Why?

 

Is it because it abates wear better? Improves reliability? Makes it more dependable? C'mon kids, you can do this.....

 

I'll assume you came to the right conclusion. Fuel Economy. Good for you.... Next question...

 

Then why not 0W16 or 0W12 or 0W8 or 0W4 or simply SAE 0? Why stop at 0W20? 

 

Wear? Yes! Wear!!

 

The industry is trying very hard to find mechanisms in metallurgy to REPLACE viscosity and AW additives and a few like Toyota think they have this nailed. Spray bores and DLH ring coatings, alternate cam core metals, etc.

 

A few lines back I mentioned AW additives. Which direction have they been going since...say....API service class SH (mid 1990's)? Cut in half! Sulfur? Nearly nonexistent. 

 

How's that working out? As a whole how is the reputation of the auto manufactures doing on cam/lifter failures? Bearing failure? Bore polish? Ring failure, mainly in that self same DLH coating? If you are not honest with this question you just don't want an answer or strain one more thought. That's fine. Stop here and check out. 

 

************************

You still here? 

 

Question. Are you old enough to remember the introduction of smog pumps (EGR) and Gen I cat converters? A system regulation FORCED on  the OEM's BEFORE they had the technology to be successful doing it. And kids old enough to remember, how did that work out for the consumer? What's that? Tanked motor life? For over a decade? While they fumbled around in dark trying not to go broke? Fun times. How about those a bit older. Unleaded Fuel? Valve failures for what seemed like forever before they stumbled onto hard seats. Why? Cause someone "THEY" said you could reduce lead and not effect the mechanical integrity of the unit. More pain and fun. How about my fathers generation. The silent ones. GM took whale oil out of AFT as did Chrysler do to regulation and substituted an untested chemical replacement not thoroughly vetted to what result? Warranty claims that crippled GM and shut down Chrysler for some time. 

 

And now as we have a new generation we get to repeat what we repeat every twenty years or so. 

 

Before the technology exists we are removing the two things that keep wear at a level that promotes reliable, durable life for a REASONALBE period of time. 

 

VISCOSITY and AW additives.

 

What's that? "THEY" say we have this technology and are using it? Yea, go back to the top section and re-ask those questions presented there. 

 

Then come back and chastise me some more.