Leveling AT4 so many choices...

[newdude]

14 hours ago, JT2000 said:

See that’s what I thought, but RCs level doesn’t need it and the shops have not had trouble. I asked RC why their kit was the only one and they stated it was in the design and install. I called RC direct is the only reason I know.

 

 

Eh.  I still wouldn't trust the stock UCAs on a leveled Trail Boss/AT4.  And GM is going after warranty on them as well.  

[JT2000]

11 hours ago, newdude said:

 

 

Eh.  I still wouldn't trust the stock UCAs on a leveled Trail Boss/AT4.  And GM is going after warranty on them as well.  

I hear you, but RC said the AT4s UCAs are longer than the regular trucks and are fine with their kits. I would think they would know, but I am a new to all this.

[masterblaster1]

Following

[Dirk13]

On 7/24/2021 at 7:53 PM, JT2000 said:

I hear you, but RC said the AT4s UCAs are longer than the regular trucks and are fine with their kits. I would think they would know, but I am a new to all this.

Just think about it for a moment. The rough country kit is ONLY spacers for the strut. It does absolutely nothing to change any geometry. It just makes the front of the truck sit a little higher in the range of travel when at rest. 
 

Would love to hear how they “designed” a strut spacer kit to improve ball joint angles or whatever else. It’s not possible. They have done nothing to change anything from stock related to the geometry of the arms/ball joints/knuckles. If the stock at4 arms are still good with their lift then they are good for any companies strut spacer that gives as much lift or less.
 

Whether or not the stock arms are still good with added lift for leveling I do not know. Looks like there are more companies offering new arms for leveling an AT4 than not. Does that mean they are actually needed or is it just companies trying to sell products?

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Dirk13
Removed wrong information

[JT2000]

25 minutes ago, Dirk13 said:

Just think about it for a moment. The rough country kit is ONLY spacers for the strut. It does absolutely nothing to change any geometry. It just makes the front of the truck sit a little higher in the range of travel when at rest. 
 

Would love to hear how they “designed” a strut spacer kit to improve ball joint angles or whatever else. It’s not possible. They have done nothing to change anything from stock related to the geometry of the arms/ball joints/knuckles. If the stock at4 arms are still good with their lift then they are good for any companies strut spacer that gives as much lift or less.
 

It is true that the AT4 arms are different (to accommodate for the factory lift). Whether or not they are still good with added lift for leveling I do not know. Looks like there are more companies offering new arms for leveling an AT4 than not. Does that mean they are actually needed or is it just companies trying to sell products?

 

 

Yeah I know next to nothing on this subject. Could be companies trying to make money. But yeah unless the dude from RC doesn’t know what he’s talking about I don’t know. A lot of shops in my area are doing it also with no issues.
 

Most UCAs aren’t to bad on price so if needed I would change. Are the knew UCAs a lot different than mine?

[newdude]

9 hours ago, JT2000 said:

 

Most UCAs aren’t to bad on price so if needed I would change. Are the knew UCAs a lot different than mine?

 

 

Yes.  Revised and proper geometry for the ball joint which is crucial.  

 

[81mmcat]

might be getting an AT4 what you guys think about 1/2 to 3/4 level on stock a arms?

[Gangly]

12 hours ago, Dirk13 said:

 

It is true that the AT4 arms are different (to accommodate for the factory lift). Whether or not they are still good with added lift for leveling I do not know. Looks like there are more companies offering new arms for leveling an AT4 than not. Does that mean they are actually needed or is it just companies trying to sell products?

 

 

Incorrect, the part numbers are the same.  The AT4's front suspension is the exact same as a stock 4x4 suspension minus the strut.  Again, for those that don't know, the only difference in the front suspension on the TB/AT4 vs a base model 4x4 is the struts.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Gangly

[Gangly]

10 minutes ago, Gangly said:

Not true, part numbers are the same.  The AT4 suspension is the exact same as a stock 4x4 suspension minus the strut.

 

On 7/24/2021 at 6:53 PM, JT2000 said:

I hear you, but RC said the AT4s UCAs are longer than the regular trucks and are fine with their kits. I would think they would know, but I am a new to all this.

 

Either RC lied to you or you might have misunderstood.  Either way, the UCA's are no different on any of the GM 4x4 model variants from top to bottom trim levels, its the CV's(drivetrain, not suspension) that are longer on the TB/AT4 models..

Edited July 26, 2021 by Gangly

[Dirk13]

36 minutes ago, Gangly said:

Incorrect, the part numbers are the same.  The AT4's front suspension is the exact same as a stock 4x4 suspension minus the strut.  Again, for those that don't know, the only difference in the front suspension on the TB/AT4 vs a base model 4x4 is the struts.

My bad

[Gangly]

10 minutes ago, Dirk13 said:

My bad

No worries, it gets very confusing sometimes.  Especially with GM since they like to do minor, or singular enhancements, to a vehicle and advertise them as though its an all new beast.  

 

A good way of looking at the TB/AT4 is to see it as a Z71/X31 but with taller shocks.  As far as suspension is concerned that's the difference other than the additional blocks in the rear.  Drivetrain wise it gets extended CV's. 

 

The TB/AT4 is a solid package if you want a factory lifted vehicle, and most people enjoy the Ranchos on the TB/AT4's as opposed to the Ranchos on the Z71's or X31's which tend to be weaker and occasionally leak at very low mileages (I noticed my fronts leaking around 15-20k miles). 

 

If your looking for a factory lift and never changing it, the TB/AT4 is a good factory option, though much pricier than aftermarket components of better quality.  It rides good on road and has comfortable ride characteristics.  If you plan on using the truck off road quite often, or doing an aftermarket suspension on your truck, you might find the capabilities lacking in which case you might be better served by purchasing a 4x4 or Z71 package, put a high quality suspension on it, and save a couple grand. 

 

[newdude]

GMs stance:

Quote

 

All upper control arm warranty claims are now routed through the Warranty Support Center. You will need to inspect and photograph the suspension area of vehicles that have upper control arm failures.  Look for any lift kit, leveling kit, or aftermarket suspension parts. If found, the repair is not warrantable. The owner, upfitter or installer of the kit becomes responsible for the damage.  GM has inspected parts from over 200 upper control arm ball joint failures and every one had a modification that caused the failure. The most common cause was lift or leveling kits on trucks equipped with RPO Z7X suspension, which is the Trail Boss or Sierra AT4 package. The ball joint angle on rebound is close to its limit with this suspension and any additional rebound travel will damage the ball joint. Failure is typically seen within 20,000 miles of installation of these modifications.  This is usually noted as noise from the ball joint but can lead to front suspension collapse. The concern is more likely to be seen on the right side because more road inputs like sewer drains, potholes and curbs will be on the right side.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by newdude

[JT2000]

3 hours ago, Gangly said:

Incorrect, the part numbers are the same.  The AT4's front suspension is the exact same as a stock 4x4 suspension minus the strut.  Again, for those that don't know, the only difference in the front suspension on the TB/AT4 vs a base model 4x4 is the struts.

I was told the UCAs on the AT4 are longer.

[JT2000]

3 hours ago, Gangly said:

 

 

Either RC lied to you or you might have misunderstood.  Either way, the UCA's are no different on any of the GM 4x4 model variants from top to bottom trim levels, its the CV's(drivetrain, not suspension) that are longer on the TB/AT4 models..

Yeah he lied or just didn’t know what he was talking about. Like I posted he said I would have to change anything with their 2” level kit and scything would be fine. I asked him about other kits saying to change UCAs he said don’t believe everything you read online. Almost also made it sounded like other companies wanted more money.

 

So I’m dumb with this stuff. Should I get a level with new UCAs or get new shocks lol I want good advice.

[Gangly]

2 hours ago, JT2000 said:

Yeah he lied or just didn’t know what he was talking about. Like I posted he said I would have to change anything with their 2” level kit and scything would be fine. I asked him about other kits saying to change UCAs he said don’t believe everything you read online. Almost also made it sounded like other companies wanted more money.

 

So I’m dumb with this stuff. Should I get a level with new UCAs or get new shocks lol I want good advice.

With the AT4 I would recommend new UCA's if you are gonna do a spacer larger than 1.5" or a suspension increase of greater than 1.5".  Whether you do a spacer kit or a suspension alteration to get the additional 1.5" above the AT4 stock ride height is up to you.  I would suggest you think about your stock suspension and decide whether or not you like the stock ride characteristics or want something different.  If the stock ride is comfortable and to your liking, go with a spacer kit.  If you want a more controlled ride(less roll, bounce, and sway) go with an aftermarket suspension kit but understand that it will generally feel stiffer, or more "planted" like an HD truck but with much better manners.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Gangly