Ethanol Fuels

[Black02Silverado]

5 hours ago, customboss said:

This 2012 paper is confirmed by technology 10 years later. Good read. 

 

https://advancedbiofuelsusa.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/New-Ethanol-Engine-Tech-Revised-Aug-2012-Formatted.pdf

Good read for sure.

 

Now if they would have E85 at every station and make an ICE with 18:1 to be able to use it.  Now that is dreaming. 

[Grumpy Bear]

https://eflexfuel.com/us#vehicle-selection

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

https://eflexfuel.com/us#vehicle-selection

2.7 not included.

[Black02Silverado]

15 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

https://eflexfuel.com/us#vehicle-selection

Interesting, I put the info in for our 2016 Suburban and it stated not capable due to direct injection. Funny, because I converted it myself by adding the sensor, the pigtail was already there and had Black Bear Performance tune it. 

[Grumpy Bear]

It also says if you don't see you car don't give up. Call them. They have GDI packages. Sadly the search feature and their library stinks. I just ran across them. I'll bet there are more. 

[Big_Kahuna]

to bad the new models dont come with a flex fuel tune , I love to burn e85

[Grumpy Bear]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327053454_Influence_of_E85_ethanol_fuel_composition_on_engine_oil_properties

[Grumpy Bear]

Hey @customboss, the conversion kit information says that E-85 is an effective combustion chamber cleaner. Better than any fuel system cleaner. Is that true? 

 

Some sources say use an injector cleaner with E85 and others swear it will damage your equipment. 

Is there such a thing as Top Tier E85?

 

Can ya help us with the truth about E85 in regard to these topics? 

[customboss]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Hey @customboss, the conversion kit information says that E-85 is an effective combustion chamber cleaner. Better than any fuel system cleaner. Is that true? 

 

Some sources say use an injector cleaner with E85 and others swear it will damage your equipment. 

Is there such a thing as Top Tier E85?

 

Can ya help us with the truth about E85 in regard to these topics? 

Yes if liquid phase ethanol hits the carbon deposit. Depends on fuel delivery too.  Atomization etc. Normally ethanol is burned so completely that it may not have residence time for carbon deposits. What will happen is deposit formation from gasoline will be limited and eventually be burned off from use.  It will clean injectors quite effectively. 

 

The only reason to add a injector cleaner or polymeric additive would be to increase lubricity in ring area at TDC and remove gasoline deposits that ethanol won't clean because it's gone, burned clean. 

 

No TOP TIER for ethanol E85 because well it doesn't need it. It's nearly deposit free.  TOP TIER gasolines are just gasolines with additives to remove the unburned gasoline residuals. Add too much or not the correct additive and that becomes a secondary deposit former. 

 

I'm trying as  retiree......LOL  

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

Update on use of E-85 (75%)

8/3/2022

 

Over 5K miles on alky now and the loss result is 23.3% from the E-10 benchmark. That is 1% better than the math which I attribute to zero KR and slight variations in actual BTU/LB vs estimated BTU/LB of gasoline.  

[customboss]

When I run E15 ( probably 87 avg octane but listed as min 86 octane avg minimum ) here in the 22' LTD trail boss L3B the tailpipe literally cleans up, black deposits depart.  Water pours from tail pipe until that sucker gets hot enough to burn a hand or finger.  GM is running a lot of heat through that exhaust system.  I'd describe the L3B described  as a temperature optimized turbine with 4 cylinders to feed it but designed for 2 cylinders to optimize it. 

 

I was getting a clean tail pipe with CENEX gasolines that are refined very close in Kansas so its fresh and then additized with 3X the polymeric additives most likely from Afton and 3M.  I cannot tell a difference in MPG running the E15 vs CENEX. 

 

I do note a sound difference from running Amsoil vs Mobil 1.  Combustion chamber seal is a factor.  At 1600 miles on the dealer gratis Mobil 1 advanced I am thinking dumping it for some Amsoil Signature Series 5w30 from Nick at Synthetic Advantage is a great idea. 

 

Went four wheeling up to about 11,000' yesterday to find a certain bear ( yep found him) and engine was flawless, average MPG was 17+ via DIC and trans temp never went above 212 F.  In 4 L this thing is a little tractor.   I have seen youtubes of the Trail Boss with the V8's get to 270F trans temps.....  Amsoil hasn't allowed me above 214 F so far.  Considering the engine coolant is moderated at 210-212 thats probably a super reading. 

 

 

 

 

[Black02Silverado]

Super happy to have found a place here in town that has E85.  It is a mom and pop store that has Citco.  I posted about it on Facebook in the Cars & Coffee section and got a ton of angry replies.  Seems they didn't want it to get out to the general public.  Most were modded rice burners that are boosted that run it.  One even tested it a few times and said it was reading at 75 to 80 at times, which is great.  It's cost a week ago was $3.75 and regular is still at $4.05 here but just 20 miles up the road it is $3.44.  Go figure. 

[LDM]

I converted my 2018 6.2 over to be able to run E85 a couple months ago.  My first tank I ended up with 8.70 mpg, which was about 20% loss in mileage from premium.  The E85 cost about 20% less than premium at the time so it ended up being a wash in savings.  The truck definitely makes more power though, the datalogs show a good 10-15 increase in HP and TQ across the board.  This makes sense, given the HP and TQ increase the 4.3 and 5.3 get when running E85.  My last fill up a couple weeks ago I did 17 gallons of E85 and 6 gallons of regular 87 octane with 2 gallons of left over fuel in the tank, which my alcohol sensor is showing 62.7%.  Next fill up I plan on adding 8-9 gallons of regular 87 octane and filling the rest with E85 to see the difference in fuel economy with around a 45-50% alcohol content.

[LDM]

On 7/24/2022 at 2:03 PM, Black02Silverado said:

Interesting, I put the info in for our 2016 Suburban and it stated not capable due to direct injection. Funny, because I converted it myself by adding the sensor, the pigtail was already there and had Black Bear Performance tune it. 

Not sure on the new 19+ trucks but 14-18 and the 19 LD all have the pigtail plugged into a dummy connector on the frame and just need the tune changed to allow use of E85 after adding the alcohol sensor.  Wonder why they would claim DI has anything to do with it when 4.3 and 5.3 came from the factory with FlexFuel as an option during these years?  The only one that never got it was the 6.2 for some reason that I really can't understand.

[Grumpy Bear]

https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/publication/ethanol_handbook.pdf

 

 

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-the-consumer-and-fuel-retailer-choice-act

Edited October 11, 2022 by Grumpy Bear