Pennzoil Platinum vs Valvoline Extended Protection

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

In my case the Redline cST @ 100 is 14.72 vs 12.76 on the PUP. Could it be a similar (albeit small) difference between OP’s Pennzoil and Valvoline accounting for the increased noise? Or different coefficient of friction?

 

I don’t know but there are too many reports of this being the case to not think there is something going on.

 

I'm a Red Line fanboy too.  Remember?

My experience is much as yours.

Penn V Valvoline? Now that one is a puzzler. 

 

1 hour ago, FJB said:

every time I shot down my truck and let it cool down the lifters would be bleed out and they would tick until pressures again, the pennzoil never ever one did that b4 .

 

Viscosity doesn't make a lifter 'bleed' during cooldown. Leakage does. When it wears enough that it leaks bad enough then viscosity MAY influence leakage 'rate' WHILE running. At that point..... Remember Rhoads Lifters?? Slack being taken up is what causes a audible sound. Sitting overnight oil drains back and depending on chemistry some oils will 'wet' the metal for long periods of time (leave a thicker film like Red Line) and some others will not. [lifter to lobe] But that has more to do with the oils polarity not it's viscosity OR addition of tackifiers (Lucas Oil Stabilizer). Thinking out loud here..... 

 

So.... seems this would be a @customboss type question as polarity is base oil or carrier oil property. Stuff you don't see on anyone's UOA. 

[customboss]

FJB, since Grumpy summoned me I tried to remember from my formulating days what you might be seeing. Without seeing YOUR engine in analysis with a good full breadth of ISO certified oil testing like Nick  of Synthetic Advantage offers its hard to say why one chemistry works nicely for you and the other allows noise.  

 

Dexos is a baseline quality spec. GM got tired of API certs allowing deposits and shearing of vis. Its better than API mins. 

API specs are also baseline and everyone who competes at big box stores blends to a minimum. 

ILSAC is a little better than API but they merge in testing alot.  

Boutique oils can be better and may show it in testing but I understand why some company using advanced base oils is not gonna formulate to a minimum, Amsoil, Redline, MPT and some of Royal Purples stuff.  Renewable Lubricants inc and BioSynthetic do really advanced work that rivals most oils with vegetable and other exotic to the oil industry bases and both are USA originally mom and pop work.  

 

Here's what I know about the oils mentioned in 5w30 viscosity.  

 

Valvoline EP is running very heavy cuts of Grp III and an exotic small cut of GRP 5 it contains >5% VII 

Pennzoil Platinum  may be using almost no VII and using their GTL GRPIII+  cuts like a GRP IV or V  synthetic could. Worst case its VII is 1% maybe. 

Redline is using a mix of GRP IV and V with  a little  < 4%  VII  Its base oils will solve out fuel deposits on metals like lifters and high temp valvetrain contacts points.  

Just as a comparison the Mobil 1 Advanced formula the dealer just installed in my Trail Boss 4 turbo is >8% VII and its noisier than the Amsoil OE I used for nearly 7500 miles that was smooth and quiet.  OE probably contains > 6% VII. 

 

VII is not bad necessarily if stable and long lasting but if its cheaper and loses its design elasticity it will thicken or thin the oil needlessly.  Some fuels dilution can react with these VII polymers and make worse deposits that make valvetrain noisy. 

 

Some really advanced lubricants from ExxonMobil are using 10-12% VII but its almost considered a base oil vs OCP and STAR formulations of VII. 

 

Here's where it gets really interesting. 

 

Shell lubricants can use salycilated additives that do really good in a PCMO and Shell owns the technology.  Infineum is co-owned by Shell and Exxon Mobil but supposed to stay at arms length in intellectual property.  

 

https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/passenger-cars/investing-in-technology

 

Pennzoil is owned by Shell so is Quaker State, Rotella, and they exclusively use these additives in most of their formulations and even in the lower cost ones. 

 

For instance Shell Truck and SUV GAS 5w30 ( a cheaper way to get Pennz Platinum performance)   formulation uses a pretty high treat rate of VII  >8% but its also loaded with this salicyilated additive system.  So for a GRP III+ GTL cut it performs well in real world. 

 

I think FLB is seeing or hearing the delta via infinieum or shell patented salicylates additives system because his engine needs it to clean or keep clean high temp contact areas. 

 

Why Rotella GRP II+ HD oils perform fairly well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[customboss]

4 hours ago, elcamino said:

A license is a revenue stream.

and a min standard for a OEM. 

[Big_Kahuna]

21 minutes ago, customboss said:

FJB, since Grumpy summoned me I tried to remember from my formulating days what you might be seeing. Without seeing YOUR engine in analysis with a good full breadth of ISO certified oil testing like Nick  of Synthetic Advantage offers its hard to say why one chemistry works nicely for you and the other allows noise.  

 

Dexos is a baseline quality spec. GM got tired of API certs allowing deposits and shearing of vis. Its better than API mins. 

API specs are also baseline and everyone who competes at big box stores blends to a minimum. 

ILSAC is a little better than API but they merge in testing alot.  

Boutique oils can be better and may show it in testing but I understand why some company using advanced base oils is not gonna formulate to a minimum, Amsoil, Redline, MPT and some of Royal Purples stuff.  Renewable Lubricants inc and BioSynthetic do really advanced work that rivals most oils with vegetable and other exotic to the oil industry bases and both are USA originally mom and pop work.  

 

Here's what I know about the oils mentioned in 5w30 viscosity.  

 

Valvoline EP is running very heavy cuts of Grp III and an exotic small cut of GRP 5 it contains >5% VII 

Pennzoil Platinum  may be using almost no VII and using their GTL GRPIII+  cuts like a GRP IV or V  synthetic could. Worst case its VII is 1% maybe. 

Redline is using a mix of GRP IV and V with  a little  < 4%  VII  Its base oils will solve out fuel deposits on metals like lifters and high temp valvetrain contacts points.  

Just as a comparison the Mobil 1 Advanced formula the dealer just installed in my Trail Boss 4 turbo is >8% VII and its noisier than the Amsoil OE I used for nearly 7500 miles that was smooth and quiet.  OE probably contains > 6% VII. 

 

VII is not bad necessarily if stable and long lasting but if its cheaper and loses its design elasticity it will thicken or thin the oil needlessly.  Some fuels dilution can react with these VII polymers and make worse deposits that make valvetrain noisy. 

 

Some really advanced lubricants from ExxonMobil are using 10-12% VII but its almost considered a base oil vs OCP and STAR formulations of VII. 

 

Here's where it gets really interesting. 

 

Shell lubricants can use salycilated additives that do really good in a PCMO and Shell owns the technology.  Infineum is co-owned by Shell and Exxon Mobil but supposed to stay at arms length in intellectual property.  

 

https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/passenger-cars/investing-in-technology

 

Pennzoil is owned by Shell so is Quaker State, Rotella, and they exclusively use these additives in most of their formulations and even in the lower cost ones. 

 

For instance Shell Truck and SUV GAS 5w30 ( a cheaper way to get Pennz Platinum performance)   formulation uses a pretty high treat rate of VII  >8% but its also loaded with this salicyilated additive system.  So for a GRP III+ GTL cut it performs well in real world. 

 

I think FLB is seeing or hearing the delta via infinieum or shell patented salicylates additives system because his engine needs it to clean or keep clean high temp contact areas. 

 

Why Rotella GRP II+ HD oils perform fairly well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for the info, I am not familiar with any of this, but I can offer to the fellow truckers what I hear see and fill, IMO pennzoil performs way better than that valvoline, at list in my ram hemi , that truck runs great with pennzoil, I also put that valvoline in my wife's grand cherokee L that have 3.6L pentastar v6 and also I can hear that motor is little noisier on startups .

[customboss]

1 minute ago, FJB said:

thanks for the info, I am not familiar with any of this, but I can offer to the fellow truckers what I hear see and fill, IMO pennzoil performs way better than that valvoline, at list in my ram hemi , that truck runs great with pennzoil, I also put that valvoline in my wife's grand cherokee L that have 3.6L pentastar v6 and also I can hear that motor is little noisier on startups .

My point is the Pennzoil that is quieter for you is using the  salicylated  additive system.  The infineum link talks about HD and Marine but applies to passenger car oils too. 

 

Valvoline has always tried for formulate using low treat rates of additives and get the best mix of base oils for the application.  If anyone ever used the older Valvoline Durablend it was a very good formula with very little additive and a GRP II GRP I mix. But it preformed very well in shorter intervals. But it made more noise in engines we tested.  

 

Hope that helps.  Brand means little, chemistry is what ya want to focus on but they hide it really well!  LOL  

 

 

[diyer2]

I still stand by my comment made in my thread Castrol Edge VS Amsoil OE. 

Amsoil OE is better oil than off the shelf oil, MY OPINION. I was never a boutique oil guy until I tried Amsoil products. I have used Amsoil in 2 motors and they both are quieter. Worth the extra cost for Amsoil OE IMO and ATV oil.

 

 

[customboss]

41 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

I still stand by my comment made in my thread Castrol Edge VS Amsoil OE. 

Amsoil OE is better oil than off the shelf oil, MY OPINION. I was never a boutique oil guy until I tried Amsoil products. I have used Amsoil in 2 motors and they both are quieter. Worth the extra cost for Amsoil OE IMO and ATV oil.

 

 

I'll prove it and confirm your observations. 

 

 

[Corey Howard]

i dont care what anybody says about any oil. I run nothing but Amsoil. the best oil made. Period. i change it every 12,000 miles and it still looks the same as i put it in damn near. my truck runs quieter the moment i put it in and it doesnt change velocity in cold or hot. the more you run it the better it runs it seems and i get it for $12.39.  so its not like it breaks the bank when i have to change the oil. Ill order it from Amsoil.com and two days later its on my doorstep. im telling you dont waste your time with anything else. everything else is junk and brandname added hype bull. trust me if you switch you will be happier than a ****** in a dog pile.

[Grumpy Bear]

19 hours ago, customboss said:

since Grumpy summoned me

 

I have a credibility to maintain and wrong answers will do nothing to promote that. So.....I call in the BIG GUNS instead of pulling something out of my..................hat.....

 

That way get to learn something new too.  

[customboss]

9 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I have a credibility to maintain and wrong answers will do nothing to promote that. So.....I call in the BIG GUNS instead of pulling something out of my..................hat.....

 

That way get to learn something new too.  

I share what I can but depending on my state of mind anymore,  has me worried about that .....

Having data from testing can really sway me on what really works and what is marketing " stuff" slapped against a wall. 

[Grumpy Bear]

10 minutes ago, customboss said:

I share what I can but depending on my state of mind anymore,  has me worried about that .....

Having data from testing can really sway me on what really works and what is marketing " stuff" slapped against a wall. 

 

Can I have an AMEN? 

[Big_Kahuna]

19 hours ago, Corey Howard said:

i dont care what anybody says about any oil. I run nothing but Amsoil. the best oil made. Period. i change it every 12,000 miles and it still looks the same as i put it in damn near. my truck runs quieter the moment i put it in and it doesnt change velocity in cold or hot. the more you run it the better it runs it seems and i get it for $12.39.  so its not like it breaks the bank when i have to change the oil. Ill order it from Amsoil.com and two days later its on my doorstep. im telling you dont waste your time with anything else. everything else is junk and brandname added hype bull. trust me if you switch you will be happier than a ****** in a dog pile.

amsoil is a good oil, but where do you get it, on their web is 17$ per quart, that is crazy for oil.

[Corey Howard]

i dont care what anybody says about any oil. I run nothing but Amsoil. the best oil made. Period. i change it every 12,000 miles and it still looks the same as i put it in damn near. my truck runs quieter the moment i put it in and it doesnt change velocity in cold or hot. the more you run it the better it runs it seems and i get it for $12.39.  so its not like it breaks the bank when i have to change the oil. Ill order it from Amsoil.com and two days later its on my doorstep. im telling you dont waste your time with anything else. everything else is junk and brandname added hype bull. trust me if you switch you will be happier than a ****** in a dog pile.

 

i get it for 12.36 from the web site but im a perfered member and ive been using for a while now the more you buy the more you save. and its worth 17

 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, FJB said:

amsoil is a good oil, but where do you get it, on their web is 17$ per quart, that is crazy for oil.

Get with site sponsor Nick @ https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/forum/139-synthetic-advantage/  I have paid less for Amsoil over the years from him than I would have buying online etc.  He just set me up for a preferred customer account and I've yet to pay for shipping.    FJB I'm betting  you'll drop that GTL based stuff pretty fast after trying Signature Series engine oils. 

[Big_Kahuna]

27 minutes ago, customboss said:

Get with site sponsor Nick @ https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/forum/139-synthetic-advantage/  I have paid less for Amsoil over the years from him than I would have buying online etc.  He just set me up for a preferred customer account and I've yet to pay for shipping.    FJB I'm betting  you'll drop that GTL based stuff pretty fast after trying Signature Series engine oils. 

I will defiantly give it a try, is amsoil even dexos approved ?