Navigating senior years.

[KARNUT]

My family business has two eye opening experiences with lawyers. One breach of contract lawsuit. Another deceptive trade practice. The first was won, we were over billed. The second the same to the point (our) lawyer went after our business. We had to file chapter 11 to stop him. Later prevailed recovering most of our winnings. With the stress and years of setback to our business. My opinion is most lawyers are more evil than whatever your opponent may have done to you. We were damaged more by our lawyers than our opponents we sued. Luckily we did find a good group in the end that saved our business. 

Edited December 29, 2024 by KARNUT

[Donstar]

One of our45+yr old offspring spends all money and credit in advance.  Tomorrow rent is due and we know we will be getting a desperate plea for "help" today.  This call to the bank of mummy and daddy is a financial strategy that has continued since this "child's" teen years.  We often receive the tough love type advice from others but this typically comes from people who have not experienced a comparable situation.  We also have children who all reached total independence at the appropriate stage of development.  We can't take credit or blame for the financial situation of 40+ year old adults. Years ago I would have mocked such late in life parenting but shared DNA is very, very powerful when homelessness  and/or self harm are also suspected to be on the table.  We do know there could be an appearance of elder abuse so we keep siblings and others informed of our efforts to keep this particular child from getting to a point of no return.   The first people I think of when I come across a group of homeless people are their parents. Every man and woman sleeping on the street have either devastated or dead parents.  It will be the latter if any of my children find themself sleeping on the street!

[KARNUT]

I get that call periodically from our second daughter. We helped her get her current home only to stop the increasing rent problem. And to build equity for her later. And it saves us money. Our help is usually 5 to 10K a year. Being frugal ourselves the trade off is driving older cars. Her two older kids contribute to money problems with failure to launch. Yes I had the discussion with them all. Finally I decided I rather them visit then constantly causing stress for both with my advice. There could be worse things. I know my wife’s parents as well as my own would have said figure it out. That doesn’t count car help. I even got one out of repossession, boy that was expensive. I told her never do that again. I’m driving it now. It does get frustrating because I see the waste. Her mother does her taxes. She with child support, tax rebates and her job. She actually makes good money. Ok I’m getting frustrated. I’ll repeat there could be worse things. I do have a good life. The other two kids are just fine. Two out of three ain’t bad.

[TrueBlue]

We try as parents to raise them the same. But being individuals, our kids grow into different beings. The consistent parenting works for some children, not so much for others. Some are happy, some not. Some responsible, some not. What most of them will fail to grasp, until they are walking in our shoes with their own kids is that it is us who continue to bear the burdens, emotionally above all else, of their decisions in life. We are fortunate in having raised two kids who are both hard-working and responsible. Both nearing 30 now and, both as yet, single. Don't know if I'll live long enough to see grandkids, I was nearly 40 when our first was born, but I am very thankful that we are blessed on the scale of results of parenting. If we had raised three, who knows how the third one would have turned out.

Edited December 31, 2024 by TrueBlue

[Grumpy Bear]

Dad had a rule that if you found yourself in jail for something you did not do, he'd say, "Make me your first call. If you did it, don't waste the dime." That man gave us every tool we needed before we were 15 to survive and he expected us all to use them. 

 

Point being training, intention and circumstances are indeed meaningful. Ditto helping out those old enough to be on their own that are not otherwise handy capped. Mental or physical. Stupidity and lazy isn't a handy cap. Keep jumping into the deep end and I'll let ya sink. Steal from me and we are done. Yep even kids. 

 

If it is indeed just a matter of 'time and unforeseen circumstances' I don't have a issue helping right the ship but it comes with a repayment plan. It isn't a handout. Doesn't matter if they can never make good on it due to continued verifiable "beyond their control' circumstance.  Let's them 'save face', retain their self esteem and keeps pick pockets out of mine. I had a rascal or two.   After the first go, they may come with hat in hand but in the other is a written executable game plan. All have repaid and none have dipped that well a second time. Good kids one and all. 

 

 

[Donstar]

Most parents will will do their best to raise their cubs to be self sufficient and to make positive contributions to society.  Whether we are successful or not, we will instinctively strive to protect our children.  Bravado and tough love may help guide us but when these don't work, we need to try alternatives. 

[customboss]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Dad had a rule that if you found yourself in jail for something you did not do, he'd say, "Make me your first call. If you did it, don't waste the dime." That man gave us every tool we needed before we were 15 to survive and he expected us all to use them. 

 

Point being training, intention and circumstances are indeed meaningful. Ditto helping out those old enough to be on their own that are not otherwise handy capped. Mental or physical. Stupidity and lazy isn't a handy cap. Keep jumping into the deep end and I'll let ya sink. Steal from me and we are done. Yep even kids. 

 

If it is indeed just a matter of 'time and unforeseen circumstances' I don't have a issue helping right the ship but it comes with a repayment plan. It isn't a handout. Doesn't matter if they can never make good on it due to continued verifiable "beyond their control' circumstance.  Let's them 'save face', retain their self esteem and keeps pick pockets out of mine. I had a rascal or two.   After the first go, they may come with hat in hand but in the other is a written executable game plan. All have repaid and none have dipped that well a second time. Good kids one and all. 

 

 

Good Lord we AGREE! Happy New Roman New Year 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, Donstar said:

Most parents will will do their best to raise their cubs to be self sufficient and to make positive contributions to society.  Whether we are successful or not, we will instinctively strive to protect our children.  Bravado and tough love may help guide us but when these don't work, we need to try alternatives. 

 

Don't remember where I heard this but a quote of sorts. "Parenting is the process of letting go". Ultimately this is true no matter how we do it. Most children will outlive us. That is the hope, right? The ultimate letting go. We care for them when they can't care for themselves. They might reciprocate. If we can, we leave them a bit of something material when we are gone. But we will leave them something regardless of what may be available materially and we only get so much time to do it. Our imprint. The one we put on them as children. Yes, we are created 'free moral agents' and can choose to ignore or misuse or apply that imprint but imprint it will. Just like the color of their shining little eyes.

 

Once on their own I am compelled to be responsible TO them but no longer FOR them. I can chose other, yes and often do but keeping the head right keeps the decisions proper and moral. IMHO anyway. I'm no shrink or therapist. Got a drawer full of those I broke  

[diyer2]

Repeated financial support becomes a habit, habits don't cure themselves. 

[ManyCamaroz]

When my father-in-law's dementia started getting increasingly worse and shortly before his death, he wanted to start giving his hard earned money to people in the grocery store line, etc. I tried explaining to him that people will take him for granted if he allows them to do so. I told him many unfortunate people just can't get a break no matter how hard they try. Others though, are in their current bad situation due to poor judgement/decisions that they've made through the years.

 

I don't helping a man that is down. I do not want to help a man that is too lazy to help himself.

Edited January 1, 2025 by ManyCamaroz

[Donstar]

Teen years are mother natures way of making the weaning process easier.    The transition to adult independence is  pretty natural for most.  We hear, and sometimes witness, the exceptions to this process.  Mental illness, drugs trauma etc. skew the playing field.  I also carry a mantra like,  "I don't mind helping a man that is down. I do not want to help a man that is too lazy to help himself."   This works for most, until it doesn't.  None of us would sit back and watch a person die from self harm and/or overdose especially if it was your child.  We've had such an experience and all of the tough love in the world wouldn't save this child. Several days of him clinging to life in intensive care this past fall gave us another opportunity to  leave this earth knowing our offspring are safe.  We know that we may not be successful but I'll bury some of my macho beliefs and give up some of my toy money before I bury a son.  We also know there are services to help and we take advantage of what is available.  We all know how available these services are as evidenced by the homeless crisis in our towns and cities.

[ManyCamaroz]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:46 AM, Donstar said:

Yes, almost all of us are short and good looking!  I grew a beard this fall and now I find myself even less distinguishable!  I use to tease my wife that she was impossible to find when we become separated in Costco because she blends in with all of the other senior ladies. Now my balding head and full white beard is a perfect disguise for me.  Hohoho   I muse with her if one of us accidently took the wrong person home, how long would it take to notice? 

I'd figure it out before getting out of the parking lot. I've driven millions of miles and she has driven maybe all of 20k and she still tells me how to drive. 

[ManyCamaroz]

12 hours ago, Donstar said:

Teen years are mother natures way of making the weaning process easier.    The transition to adult independence is  pretty natural for most.  We hear, and sometimes witness, the exceptions to this process.  Mental illness, drugs trauma etc. skew the playing field.  I also carry a mantra like,  "I don't mind helping a man that is down. I do not want to help a man that is too lazy to help himself."   This works for most, until it doesn't.  None of us would sit back and watch a person die from self harm and/or overdose especially if it was your child.  We've had such an experience and all of the tough love in the world wouldn't save this child. Several days of him clinging to life in intensive care this past fall gave us another opportunity to  leave this earth knowing our offspring are safe.  We know that we may not be successful but I'll bury some of my macho beliefs and give up some of my toy money before I bury a son.  We also know there are services to help and we take advantage of what is available.  We all know how available these services are as evidenced by the homeless crisis in our towns and cities.

The intention in my statement "I don't mind helping a man that is down. I do not want to help a man that is too lazy to help himself" evidently lacked clarity. I would always render help to a person in need, just not money. I've offered to buy them a meal and they declined my offer, they just wanted money. I've had others that simply demanded money. Years ago one night I had a guy ask me at a grocery store for gas money so he could get his family home in the next town about 30 miles away. I obliged him and think that I gave him a $5 bill. A week or so later at that same grocery store he approached me again with the same story. I said man I gave you money last week to get home. He didn't say anything, he just turned and walked away.

 

It's the professional beggars that I'm speaking of. I live in a nice area of town and there is a man that has been sitting on the same corner in a wheelchair everyday (except when it's raining) from sun up to sun down for at least 5-6 years. He has someone drop him off in the morning and then pick him up in the evening. The local paper interviewed him and did a story. Of coarse he claims he only gets about $20 on a good day. The local police even checked him out and the story goes per the local PD, he rents a room in a house and it stated that he makes about $1,500 a week begging on the corner. Most days he has a couple of bags with him, I can only guess to appear that he is homeless. When his ride shows up he gathers up his things and walks to the car carrying his belongings unaided.  

Edited January 3, 2025 by ManyCamaroz

[Donstar]

11 hours ago, ManyCamaroz said:

I'd figure it out before getting out of the parking lot. I've driven millions of miles and she has driven maybe all of 20k and she still tells me how to drive. 

Does she point or say click, click?    Just wondering...

[KARNUT]

51 years ago I used to scare the hell out of my then girlfriend with my aggressive driving. I asked her out a year prior to but she declined because of my driving reputation. She was on one of the  many school buses I used to pass going home from school. There were some very long straights going home from school. The buses got to where they would wait for me to leave. Really no kidding. My RX3 had a high top speed. She figured the next year that I survived I must know how to drive. In reality I had too many speeding points I was close to losing my license so I picked my speed better. I became more aware. Almost immediately I drove many miles for work. 50-60k miles a year. I still drive 30k miles a year. You learn escape routes, stay aware when driving. Im most tired from mental fatigue than driving. Always scanning, anticipating. It didn’t take long for her to recognize I am a good driver. The early days she didn’t appreciate the stoplight drags. After my first born I took it to the drag strip. Ultimately over the years my wife got more tickets than me. It was tough during the double nickel days. CB radio was a blessing. It’s when I learned the art of blending. I’m not much slower, I became wiser. So after a short time 51 years ago she never says a word. 

Edited January 3, 2025 by KARNUT