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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

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Posted

Picking the meat of the bones.

 

I hope in that first video you may have noticed the statement that when synthetic bases are selected over conventional that you have higher viscosity indexes and thus the low temperature viscosity is lower and the HTHS is higher with the synthetic for the same grade. 

 

If you did, GOOD and WARNING.

 

The idea was that due to these conditions LESS VII's could be used the get the same GRADE. But this is only a possibility and not an absolute. If fact rarely the case and the greatest difference (viscosity wise) between SOME boutiques and a commercial oil.  

 

DEXOS1 oils of any generation are also 'Energy Conserving" oils. The HTHS is at the MINIMUM and obtained JUST LIKE A CONVENTIONAL by use of VII's. This allows an even lower CCS and pumping numbers exceeding the requirements by a large margin while sacrificing the HTHS. 

 

And average boutique will use a more viscous base, exceeding the HTHS requirement and IMPROVING the CCS enough to meet the spec. These oils will need LESS VII and leave less ring deposits. 

 

An exceptional boutique will blend several bases to create an even higher VI using even less VII and a wider range with an even higher HTHS and greatly enhance cleanliness. Some of the multigrades will contain neither a VII or a PPD. Fact is PPD's don't even work in these bases as they contain ZERO paraffin. 

 

One I have in mind favors the Energy Conservation end of HTHS for a grade; that is, the minimum and concentrates on other means to inhibit deposits & wear and enhance cleanliness and still claims extended change intervals. Choices of more stable additives, in example, VII. 

 

This could get to be a long ramble, but VISCOSITY is the focus I'm trying to hold. How much and how it is obtained and KEPT. 

 

:rant:

 

 

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Grumpy Bear
Grumpy Bear

Give it some thought     You just saw a motor (my post above) with failed pistons/rings at nearly twice this milage on standard OEM OCI's look as good as the photo on the left whi

VicFirth
VicFirth

I'm seeing more reviews of Valvoline Restore & Protect clean extremely well.  I'm curious if the chemistry they're using makes it into other grades.  If this oil does what it is supposed to do, it

txab
txab

Ok, just double checking since you say your brain is busted sometimes. 😆  Wanted to make sure this wasn't some figment of your imagination   3 cases FTMFW!

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

Notice how oxidation resistant Mobil 1 is.  (5:40)

 

Don't give up there. Continue past 6 minutes. Note ring grooves and third land then go back to the comparator charts for reference. Now go back to the first video where he talks about the cause of ring deposits and see how that fits with this video.

 

Remember, he is a sponsored channel. Remember as well the claim is against the lowest benchmarks in there are. API/ILSAC. Not that they are a cinch to pass, just the lowest standard. 

 

Remember as well that oil has to perform well in ALL phases, not just the one being showboated.  

 

Lastly remember that most of these tests are on new oil and that matters for many, but not all things. 

 

 

  • Thanks 2
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, VicFirth said:

 

Notice how oxidation resistant Mobil 1 is.  (5:40)

 

 

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.fe2fcc09f036708c211f15ac08d58a9c.png

 

 

So what’s the common denominator for making deposits in the first two tests? 

Same variable ( that has a tremendous affectation ) in the Toyota dyno test? 
 

FUEL 

 

What leverages the fuel impact in Toyota dyno test. Multiport and DI injectors. Not just DI like most cars. 
Fuel burn, delivery, EGR, and PCV have more effect on engines today than engine oil!!

 

  • Thanks 1
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted

IMAGINE offering oil analysis services and testing for 45 years that focused on engine performance NOT oil brand! To bad you missed it cause it’s gone now. 

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted

Grumpy didn’t keep up with his tune on his beloved 4.3 GM V6 but the bandaid was redline oil. If he had kept optimum tune over its many miles it wouldn’t have mattered what oil brand he ran. 
My point is he was ignorant of that fact until he tested with my former company. 
It’s not a hit on Grumpy. He’s one of the sharpest here mechanically. 
Im hoping in future we get on board diagnostics so we all KNOW in real time we need to correct tune asap. 
 

 

KARNUT Senior Enthusiast

KARNUT

Posted
Posted

Sometimes I think all this fussing and cussing about oil analysts and brands is like cutting your lawn with scissors and a ruler. I don’t live in an exclusive subdivision because of the restrictions and HOA. My OCD would cause me to have a heart attack. I don’t do oil analysts because it would show a slow decline of my engine. The only reason I go to my doctor yearly is because of my blood pressure medication. That involves blood work. Now I get to watch the decline of my organs. Yeah. Ultimately I’ve never lost an engine in a regular passenger vehicle before the vehicle was retired for another reason. Sure there’s outliers. But ultimately the good brands of vehicles will easily go 200K miles. 10 to 15 years of driving. Years passed normal payments. Long enough to be able to pay cash for the next vehicle. Fun to debate about for some. Make a difference, not much.

  • Like 2
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Sometimes I think all this fussing and cussing about oil analysts and brands is like cutting your lawn with scissors and a ruler. I don’t live in an exclusive subdivision because of the restrictions and HOA. My OCD would cause me to have a heart attack. I don’t do oil analysts because it would show a slow decline of my engine. The only reason I go to my doctor yearly is because of my blood pressure medication. That involves blood work. Now I get to watch the decline of my organs. Yeah. Ultimately I’ve never lost an engine in a regular passenger vehicle before the vehicle was retired for another reason. Sure there’s outliers. But ultimately the good brands of vehicles will easily go 200K miles. 10 to 15 years of driving. Years passed normal payments. Long enough to be able to pay cash for the next vehicle. Fun to debate about for some. Make a difference, not much.

The work I did was not focused on end users or individuals. I worked R&D for meeting best practices and making the best product possible. Sharing here is just showing how the sausage is made. Some folks don’t want to know just eat the delicious sausage. Vic, Grumpy, onthreel and others are interested. Eat your sausage and enjoy. 😉 

  • Like 1
KARNUT Senior Enthusiast

KARNUT

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, customboss said:

The work I did was not focused on end users or individuals. I worked R&D for meeting best practices and making the best product possible. Sharing here is just showing how the sausage is made. Some folks don’t want to know just eat the delicious sausage. Vic, Grumpy, onthreel and others are interested. Eat your sausage and enjoy. 😉 

There are some people who don’t have a clue. They read and join sites like these for information. Suddenly there’re told the manufacturer is lying to them you must change your oil every 3K miles or she’s going to blow. In most cases if your target is 150K miles and 10 years. Normal following the manufacturer will get you there. Their reputation is at stake. At worst the severe maintenance schedule will be enough to get you to the 200k mark. Normal drivers would take 15 to 20 years to get there. 3/4 of the drivers in my family go to a quick lube place using the oil minder. They usually keep their vehicles 5-8 years. Honda and Toyota mostly never a problem. Even my grandson who has our first Hyundai a 2005. He does nothing for maintenance barely oil changes. She’s still going. The cars falling apart but it still runs good, amazingly. Realistically most people who are more diligent with vehicle service have the time to fuss. To the rest a vehicle is an appliance they don’t have time to fuss. 

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

There are some people who don’t have a clue. They read and join sites like these for information. Suddenly there’re told the manufacturer is lying to them you must change your oil every 3K miles or she’s going to blow. In most cases if your target is 150K miles and 10 years. Normal following the manufacturer will get you there. Their reputation is at stake. At worst the severe maintenance schedule will be enough to get you to the 200k mark. Normal drivers would take 15 to 20 years to get there. 3/4 of the drivers in my family go to a quick lube place using the oil minder. They usually keep their vehicles 5-8 years. Honda and Toyota mostly never a problem. Even my grandson who has our first Hyundai a 2005. He does nothing for maintenance barely oil changes. She’s still going. The cars falling apart but it still runs good, amazingly. Realistically most people who are more diligent with vehicle service have the time to fuss. To the rest a vehicle is an appliance they don’t have time to fuss. 

 

I don't think anyone has said that. 🤨 Didn't even imply it. 

 

I'm getting the idea you feel these 'clueless people' should rely on "You filtering their information"? Ya know, so they know the 'real story'? You will tell them how long and for how long to keep it? What service and fluid to use and who to listen to? Who to avoid? And clueless is anyone that doesn't listen to you????? Note: these are ALL questions. Not a single statement is made. 

 

If I understand correctly, you feel only catastrophic failure is the only possible result to a lubrication failure? Also, a question. 

 

3 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I don’t do oil analysts because it would show a slow decline of my engine.

 

What should I make of this? What about all those results showing a happy little units doing what happy little units do? Do they not exist in your experience? Why so doom and gloom? 

 

Serious. Inquiring minds want to know! :) Answer as many as you feel you can without exploding. KIDDING. But answer please. 

Edited by Grumpy Bear
  • Like 1
KARNUT Senior Enthusiast

KARNUT

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I don't think anyone has said that. 🤨 Didn't even imply it. 

 

I'm getting the idea you feel these 'clueless people' should rely on "You filtering their information"? Ya know, so they know the 'real story'? You will tell them how long and for how long to keep it? What service and fluid to use and who to listen to? Who to avoid? And clueless is anyone that doesn't listen to you????? Note: these are ALL questions. Not a single statement is made. 

 

If I understand correctly, you feel only catastrophic failure is the only possible result to a lubrication failure? Also, a question. 

 

 

What should I make of this? What about all those results showing a happy little units doing what happy little units do? Do they not exist in your experience? Why so doom and gloom? 

 

Serious. Inquiring minds want to know! :) Answer as many as you feel you can without exploding. KIDDING. But answer please. 

I’ve had experience with hundreds of heavy equipment, almost as many trucks and cars. Raced some, built some and have even done oil analysis. The normal everyday driver really doesn’t need to bother themselves with anything but regular oil changes. And standard maintenance. And yes qualified I am to give my opinion. So you manage to get a badly designed engine to 200K miles congratulations. To your credit you say it’s not normal. As far as my filtering information. I simply referred them to the owners manual. Silly me, how dare I. 

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

I’ve had experience with hundreds of heavy equipment, almost as many trucks and cars. Raced some, built some and have even done oil analysis. The normal everyday driver really doesn’t need to bother themselves with anything but regular oil changes. And standard maintenance. And yes qualified I am to give my opinion. So you manage to get a badly designed engine to 200K miles congratulations. To your credit you say it’s not normal. As far as my filtering information. I simply referred them to the owners manual. Silly me, how dare I. 

 

Don't get touchy. :crackup:

 

Opinions don't need qualification, right?

 

260K coming up. Want to bet on 300K. 😉 

 

What isn't normal and what is common are entirely different things.

Oil consumption is very common. Just not at my house. :).  @customboss had this same motor and an entirely different experience. (If my poor memory serves) 

 

Something else opinions don't need. To be true. To be supported. Have a leg to stand on. 

 

Say ones lives above the tree line and never ventured below it. He might opine that there is no such thing as trees. It's an opinion. If he did think there where he might also believe there is no such thing as forest and if that is true, no need for ROW equipment. One with the opinion may tell another they have no need for a right of way clearing. He has an opinion based oh HIS facts but not ALL facts. At least all AVAILABLE facts. It's what a forum does. Increase the supply of relevant facts. 

 

Just say'n brother. 

 

 

Edited by Grumpy Bear
KARNUT Senior Enthusiast

KARNUT

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Don't get touchy. :crackup:

 

Opinions don't need qualification, right?

 

260K coming up. Want to bet on 300K. 😉 

 

What isn't normal and what is common are entirely different things.

Oil consumption is very common. Just not at my house. :).  @customboss had this same motor and an entirely different experience. (If my poor memory serves) 

 

Something else opinions don't need. To be true. To be supported. Have a leg to stand on. 

 

Say ones lives above the tree line and never ventured below it. He might opine that there is no such thing as trees. It's an opinion. If he did think there where he might also believe there is no such thing as forest and if that is true, no need for ROW equipment. One with the opinion may tell another they have no need for a right of way clearing. He has an opinion based oh HIS facts but not ALL facts. At least all AVAILABLE facts. It's what a forum does. Increase the supply of relevant facts. 

 

Just say'n brother. 

 

 

You’re just being ridiculous. As a rule and as prescribed by the manufacturer these are procedures. These aren’t opinions that’s their recommendation. There hasn’t been mass failures by going by those. My dentist says you need your teeth cleaned once a year. I said I read on line it’s better two times . He says in my 30 years of dentistry one time does it. Buuut if you want two that’s fine. I can make silly analogies too. 

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