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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

 

It is NOT doctored.  This is from a Toyota forum.  The virgin oxidation for this oil is 23.  HPL oxidation values tend to jump into the 40's and 50's.  I do not see this same pattern in other UOA with other brands.   

 

I do not use this lab, I use OAI. 

 

As far as this oil cleaning, we don't know.  Oil filter was cut open and no signs of any carbon material.  

Vic you are thoughtful and interested and we all value that.  OAI from Amsoil ( @Black02Silverado)  is a good go-to now since high quality lab work and detailed interpretation are gone for the consumer minority who gives a S-H-I-T. 

 

Since retiring I have been sending my thousands of costumers over 45 years to Nick @Black02Silverado hes honest and over 20 + years of our friendship and common disabled veteran background he knows more than he realizes. 

 

HPL is using some very oxidatively active base oils I suspect to get that GRP III HVHI they also use to last.  

 

No oil can counter large volumes of nitrous oxides riding in the oil. THEY are the PRECURSER to real auto oxidation which is a chain you will not break.   

ALL automotive oil formulators are struggling with fine soot from DI AND NITRATION, there are no ANTI NITRANTS that are cheap effective or available yet.  Why I harp on it. Changing the oil is the best option for this Yaris 4 popper.  THEN tune it up. 

He's wearing the engine needlessly by not correcting the tune = airflow,spark,timing ******, EGR, valve action and efficiency, crankcase venting, PCV etc.  

 

Note there are engines recently that use NO EGR because of the improved design.  Not spark but compression from FENDT tractors, German and Argentinan engineering ( think Nazi engineering brought back from 40's) 

 

TBN is not gonna ****** nitration. 

 

R.....E....T...A....R...D  being blocked jebus on a white horse 

Edited by customboss
****** blocked
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Grumpy Bear
Grumpy Bear

Give it some thought     You just saw a motor (my post above) with failed pistons/rings at nearly twice this milage on standard OEM OCI's look as good as the photo on the left whi

VicFirth
VicFirth

I'm seeing more reviews of Valvoline Restore & Protect clean extremely well.  I'm curious if the chemistry they're using makes it into other grades.  If this oil does what it is supposed to do, it

txab
txab

Ok, just double checking since you say your brain is busted sometimes. 😆  Wanted to make sure this wasn't some figment of your imagination   3 cases FTMFW!

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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, customboss said:

Vic you are thoughtful and interested and we all value that.  OAI from Amsoil ( @Black02Silverado)  is a good go-to now since high quality lab work and detailed interpretation are gone for the consumer minority who gives a S-H-I-T. 

 

Since retiring I have been sending my thousands of costumers over 45 years to Nick @Black02Silverado hes honest and over 20 + years of our friendship and common disabled veteran background he knows more than he realizes. 

 

HPL is using some very oxidatively active base oils I suspect to get that GRP III HVHI they also use to last.  

 

No oil can counter large volumes of nitrous oxides riding in the oil. THEY are the PRECURSER to real auto oxidation which is a chain you will not break.   

ALL automotive oil formulators are struggling with fine soot from DI AND NITRATION, there are no ANTI NITRANTS that are cheap effective or available yet.  Why I harp on it. Changing the oil is the best option for this Yaris 4 popper.  THEN tune it up. 

He's wearing the engine needlessly by not correcting the tune = airflow,spark,timing ******, EGR, valve action and efficiency, crankcase venting, PCV etc.  

 

Note there are engines recently that use NO EGR because of the improved design.  Not spark but compression from FENDT tractors, German and Argentinan engineering ( think Nazi engineering brought back from 40's) 

 

TBN is not gonna ****** nitration. 

 

 

 

Thank you, I appreciate your comments.  👍

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted

Clear varnish and shellac type deposits can deplete the oil additives and base oils while looking relatively clean but still deplete and auto-oxidize the oil if nitration is grossly elevated.  @Grumpy Bear gets it partially right, not a slam but he trys.  

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, customboss said:

Can't fall out of my wheel chair because you said nothing meaningful really.  Where is the FTIR abs reading for oxidation in this data on the Yaris?  

Consider this yammering masses.  Some oxidation is actually cleaning NOT harmful.  If the viscosity is stable then most likely its not harmful.  What IS HARMFUL is the nitration.  Tune the engine whoever the owner is.  Will any of you cheapassees buy a good oil analysis on YOUR equipment here?  Quit pulling up unknown source data because it could be doctored. 

 

 

You are babbling like the village idiot. READ the report RICHARD. ASTM 7414 method is????? FTIR. Do you need a copy? 

D7414 Standard Test Method for Condition Monitoring of Oxidation in In-Service Petroleum and Hydrocarbon Based Lubricants by Trend Analysis Using Fourier Transform Infrared (FT-IR) Spectrometry (astm.org)

 

This report shows a 13.3% increase over the 5K mile sample How much over virgin? :dunno: Stable? Hardly. Is oxidation harmful. Oh, I don't know. How degraded do you let your milk get before you reject it? Your rejection point and the industry standards are...oh wait, that right....you think anyone in the industry not you is an idiot. 🤨

 

Even when I agree with you (Nitration on this sample) your disagreeable. Most would find my agreement "meaningful". 

 

You are NOT being helpful with your "I'm the only person in the business who knows what is REALLY going on" stance. You are being self-promoting. Last I checked, science didn't care. Motor doesn't care where the industry is going either. Cares where it is. 

 

You make me regret attempting to be nice to you every chance you get. I wouldn't let your read a cereal box. 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, customboss said:

high quality lab work and detailed interpretation are gone for the consumer minority who gives a S-H-I-T. 

 

:rollin:You mean since you retired. :crackup::crackup::crackup: Point, set and match. :nonod:

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

You are babbling like the village idiot. READ the report RICHARD. ASTM 7414 method is????? FTIR. Do you need a copy? 

D7414 Standard Test Method for Condition Monitoring of Oxidation in In-Service Petroleum and Hydrocarbon Based Lubricants by Trend Analysis Using Fourier Transform Infrared (FT-IR) Spectrometry (astm.org)

 

This report shows a 13.3% increase over the 5K mile sample How much over virgin? :dunno: Stable? Hardly. Is oxidation harmful. Oh, I don't know. How degraded do you let your milk get before you reject it? Your rejection point and the industry standards are...oh wait, that right....you think anyone in the industry not you is an idiot. 🤨

 

Even when I agree with you (Nitration on this sample) your disagreeable. Most would find my agreement "meaningful". 

 

You are NOT being helpful with your "I'm the only person in the business who knows what is REALLY going on" stance. You are being self-promoting. Last I checked, science didn't care. Motor doesn't care where the industry is going either. Cares where it is. 

 

You make me regret attempting to be nice to you every chance you get. I wouldn't let your read a cereal box. 

Dang musta struck a cord with your broken record? 
You are a sponge that drips information you shoulda retained from your internet mixed with library work. 
Love Ya , Richard 

customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

:rollin:You mean since you retired. :crackup::crackup::crackup: Point, set and match. :nonod:

No, since my dementia increased but a demented Richard is smarter than your bloviating memes. 

Edited by customboss
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

"Jezz, you think not getting caught in a lie is the same thing as telling the truth."

(Robert Redford, Three Days of the Condor)

 

 

 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted (edited)

I was watching a video last night on the geography of Israel during the time of Christ. The narrator was standing at a cistern dated from that time, drawing water. Pulling a bucket up on a rope. This well has been in constant use for two millenniums. That's impressive in and of itself. Know what was more impressive?

 

The deep grooves worn in that stone lid by that rope!

 

People discussing lubrication tend to think in the 'marketing' groomed view of the catastrophic. Pulling drain plugs from running motors. Comparing accelerated wear testing under conditions a motor in average use never sees. Concluding that the purpose of lubrication is first and foremost tasked with the prevention of catastrophic wear. It is a neat feature and one most welcomed when we have a thermostat stick closed or forget to top off the oil. But it isn't the primary job. 

 

That is to slow the rate of wear to a point it becomes imperceptible over a long enough period of time to be useful to the user. In the ideal it would prevent the rope from wearing a groove in stone. 

 

Marketing, driven by WHATERVER forces are attempting to reset expectations for the definition of "normal". They even have Tribologist hoodwinked. Ones that do it for hire anyway. Or are they? 🤔 

 

As it happens, two nights ago I was talking with dad. As you are aware by now, he is 96. Farm boy, horseman. Military assignment motor pool. Armored division. Used that skill for 70 years to supplement the household income repairing anything with a motor in it. He's seen allot. 

 

So, I put the question to him, "Of all the vehicles you've ever owned or cared for, how many were oil users"? This would be hundreds for frame of reference. Two dozen or more of personal ownership and dating back to the late 1920's. I like to fish in deep waters. 😉

 

 "One he replied", adding "Only one and it never leaked or smoked. A 38 Ford Flathead coupe". 

 

"How many have you had over 500K miles?" I followed. 

 

"A few".  A big smile. 

 

Two of these I grew up with. 

 

Using oil isn't normal. It is the result of choice. Consequences.

 

Some by the manufacture. Some by the user and some by so called oil professionals that propagate the lies. 

 

 

Edited by Grumpy Bear
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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Oxidation - The Lubricant's Nemesis (machinerylubrication.com)

 

 

 

"The oxidized lubricants are analyzed by tests including base number, AN, FTIR oxidation or viscosity change. This evaluation further indicates the lubricant's oxidation state."

 

"A common method for studying oxidation is to trend its progression. Oxidation results can be followed by measuring the increase in the acid number of the fluid (or the loss in base number in engine oils caused by the formation of acids), viscosity (caused by the formation of condensation products), FTIR carbonyl oxidation (the ketones, aldehydes, esters and acids formed form the oxidation reactions) and insoluble products."

 

"Although oxidation has been studied for more than 140 years, it remains to be fully understood. Fluid chemistry, reaction temperature and reaction conditions are varied in testing experiments in an attempt to predict the in-service behavior of the lubricant.

 

Tests have been designed to measure oxidation reserve (the amount of protection remaining) and oxidation progress (the amount of oxidation that has occurred). Both testing methods have their advantages, and the effectiveness of these tests depends on the operation of the in-service fluid. The better that a test can measure what is occurring, the more information is available concerning the life of the fluid."

Edited by VicFirth
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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, VicFirth said:

Oxidation results can be followed by measuring the increase in the acid number of the fluid (or the loss in base number in engine oils caused by the formation of acids)

 

My preferred method. And no, I don't care if I don't ring every last mile out of the oil. I'm not protecting my oil budget. I'm protecting my equipment. That said I also pay attention to the oxidation numbers and 100 C viscosity. If I take care of the first the rest never becomes an issue. 

Edited by Grumpy Bear
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OnTheReel Senior Enthusiast

OnTheReel

Posted
Posted

Arrhenius equation. Keep it cool. Greatly reduces rate of oxidation and extends the life of even the cheapest oil. Unfortunately that strategy is at odds with the current fuel economy goals/ mandates. 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

Pay attention to the subtle phrases and the interactions. Especially the difference between the formation of 'ring deposits' and the formation of 'sludge'. It's simplistic but....

 

 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

Note the role viscosity plays in wear VERSES the role ZDDP plays in wear, when and how. Then tell me where what I've written is not true. Again, this information is in the phrases you are likely to not pay much attention to. 

 

It has been said, "You are an idiot if you don't read a newspaper. You're a bigger idiot if you believe everything you've read in it". 

 

 

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