Non-dexos oil

[KARNUT]

50 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Well written and received.  

 

I have been slowing down a bit as I age but I still enjoy driving just for the sake of the drive. Due to that I tend to put on allot of miles in a very short time. 18 months on Raven and already at 41K. Pepper is a decade old right under 200K and even Dizzy, same age as Pepper is now nearing 300K. We drive allot. 

 

I bring this up because I think context matters to all of us. I a world where I drove 10K or less a year I'm certain my maintenance would be different than when I drive 20 to 30 K a year. I know this is factual because we own two Buicks, a 2009 with 50K on it and her 2014 sitting at 20K. Rarely leave the garage and when they do, it is cross country. 

 

Terry used to say something that was a nail struck square. "Hand in Glove". 

 

Practical example. On my 20-30K a year vehicles I reach for the top shelf, Continental, Pirelli for tires and I'll get speedy doing it. On the garage queens they get Mastercraft. Tires data out before their down to 8/32". Pretty much just holding the car up and still a good enough tire to run cross country on. Raven gets Falken. LRR tire suitable for her 50 mph life and more local service. Few good choices in the 165/65R14 line LOL

 

So I agreed with Customboss in this regard. Hand in glove. It has to work for you. 

 

That said, I favor the machines best practice and I think I've shown that it can pay off, at least in the context of my personal service universe. 

 

 

With the exception of trips 3-4 times a year now about 1000 miles total each. Everything I need is within 8 miles. I drive daily to one of 3 walking trails. Each about 8 miles one way. 

[No F-bdy Bs]

On 4/1/2026 at 9:57 AM, Z45 said:

The Dexos licensing system is voluntary certifications that only set minimum quality standards!  If good enough is what matters, then buy oil with the dexos logo and help GM make more money.  

 

Before you think its not a profit making scheme for GM, read this

 

 

I'm pretty sure everything GM does is for profit. Doesn't change the fact that somehow in 2026, so many people can devote so much mental bandwith to something as simple as engine oil. 

 

Go blindly pick any decent synthetic. Dexos or otherwise, change every 5k,and convince me there's a real world difference. 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, No F-bdy Bs said:

I'm pretty sure everything GM does is for profit. Doesn't change the fact that somehow in 2026, so many people can devote so much mental bandwith to something as simple as engine oil. 

 

Go blindly pick any decent synthetic. Dexos or otherwise, change every 5k,and convince me there's a real world difference. 

 

Interesting word "Real", isn't it? 

 

"Difference" is almost as much fun.

 

 

Before any bandwidth was spent on "something so simple as engine oil" a guy would have to know what is real to you; how much of that real it takes to make a difference to you.  But you kind of let that cat out of the bag.

 

"Go blindly pick any decent synthetic. Dexos or otherwise..."

 

It's that word otherwise...  You lumped all lubricants suitable for an engine into a single bracket like we do the word metals in the periodic table. 

 

Nearly 75% of all the elements in the Periodic Table are classified as metals. is there no difference? Perhaps you would like to rewire your home with lead and remove the copper. Use uranium instead of gold in your teeth. There all metals, right? No difference? 

 

The problem here is that you know the difference in metals but not in oils and believe that because you are versed in one you are master of all and enough so to disparage those who actually do and enjoy the exchange. Wonder how you will receive a reply in kind? 

 

[KARNUT]

6 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Interesting word "Real", isn't it? 

 

"Difference" is almost as much fun.

 

 

Before any bandwidth was spent on "something so simple as engine oil" a guy would have to know what is real to you; how much of that real it takes to make a difference to you.  But you kind of let that cat out of the bag.

 

"Go blindly pick any decent synthetic. Dexos or otherwise..."

 

It's that word otherwise...  You lumped all lubricants suitable for an engine into a single bracket like we do the word metals in the periodic table. 

 

Nearly 75% of all the elements in the Periodic Table are classified as metals. is there no difference? Perhaps you would like to rewire your home with lead and remove the copper. Use uranium instead of gold in your teeth. There all metals, right? No difference? 

 

The problem here is that you know the difference in metals but not in oils and believe that because you are versed in one you are master of all and enough so to disparage those who actually do and enjoy the exchange. Wonder how you will receive a reply in kind? 

 

I think Valvoline Restored and Protect probably put the notion of all the same to bed. If nothing else. I haven’t read anything challenging their claims.

[OnTheReel]

6 hours ago, No F-bdy Bs said:

I'm pretty sure everything GM does is for profit. Doesn't change the fact that somehow in 2026, so many people can devote so much mental bandwith to something as simple as engine oil. 

 

Go blindly pick any decent synthetic. Dexos or otherwise, change every 5k,and convince me there's a real world difference. 

Mental bandwidth to optimize and protect the second largest purchase most people will ever make in their life is bandwidth well spent in my book. Plus, it’s called a hobby…sheesh.

PS: it being 2026 means it’s more important than ever. Vehicles have never cost more, engines have never been more complex, loans terms have never been longer, and vehicles have never been worse quality (JMO on the last part but there’s evidence to prove it)…

[diyer2]

I tend to agree with no fbdy bs, I have used off the shelf oil and got my vehicles to high mileage by just changing the oil more frequently. 

[No F-bdy Bs]

Right. 

Read what I said. 

I didn't say there's no difference in OIL. 

 

I said, there's no real world difference in what oil you use, provided it's a quality synthetic, with OCI done at the correct time. 

 

I'm sure you can pull some down in the weeds readings showing where Xx brand shows Xx ppm @ 100,000mi whereas THIS brand only shows Xx ppm. 

That's fine if you need a hobby, and engine oil happens to fill that void in your life, but is there any result that shows a noticeable difference in day to day operation of the vehicle for your average owner? 

[Atlas]

Fleets were a use case mentioned above where folks might want to get the most mileage out of their vehicles.

 

Except that's not often reflected in the real world, fleet management is more an exercise in financial, asset management, than it is doing what's absolutely best for the equipment. Primarily because fleet vehicles are retired before the end of their useful lives. One, to control costs like the vehicle falling apart around a maintained engine/trans, and parts availability for when things go wrong. Two, because of capital leasing, the asset gets depreciated over an expected lifespan and then it gets sold and written off the books.

 

There are cases where fleets run the absolute piss out of their vehicles until they turn to dust. The USPS is a great example. I've not known USPS vehicles to receive any special treatment or oils, it's all low-cost bidder stuff. I'm not sure their "run to failure" replacement interval is the best idea, but it's what they have to do because it's a critical service that is wildly under-funded.

 

I've known a few fleet managers, and vehicles you'd expect to be taken care of to a high standard. Police, fire, airport vehicles. Material and part costs are typically a bigger consideration than LS' considerations on what makes for the best oil.

 

I think all this does is drive home the point that oil-sciencing (research) is important, but squeaking every last mile out of an engine is probably more of a personal pursuit/goal. Unless you're in the mail delivery business?

 

I can think of some high-mileage Semi's but the heavily worn stuff usually ends up down at the port pushing cans around, and held together by bailing wire.

Edited April 4 by Atlas

[Grumpy Bear]

4 hours ago, diyer2 said:

I tend to agree with no fbdy bs, I have used off the shelf oil and got my vehicles to high mileage by just changing the oil more frequently. 

 

Do ya remember me saying you could use anything you like if the OCI is appropriate to the oil and the service? Or remember my telling the group that dad put many a Ford over the half million mark on Group II oils of his day by simply changing it ever 1 to 1.5K? Hand in Glove and you sir are the posterboard for that.  

 

23 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I think Valvoline Restored and Protect probably put the notion of all the same to bed. If nothing else. I haven’t read anything challenging their claims.

 

^^^^^^

This

 

3 hours ago, No F-bdy Bs said:

I said, there's no real world difference in what oil you use

 

Let me show ya something. Look at the middle three. Temp curves at the same conditions using three different oil of different base oil composition. Arrhenius Rule (Physics) Cooler oil last longer. Longer lasting oil is a real world benefit. 

 

 

Aniline Point

 

Aniline point determines not just the oils ability to hold additives in suspension or solution but is a big factor in the engines cleanliness. Example below the chart

 

 

Real world difference

While this is between conventional and a Group III/Bio-ester the same thing happens as  you climb the aniline scale.

 

 

Lastly

This one is the difference between a PAO and a Group III SYNTHETIC

Clearly a real word difference. Motors like oil always but wont always get it in colder environments

 

Believe it or Not Mr. Ripley

[Grumpy Bear]

 

[No F-bdy Bs]

, and as if to illustrate my point. 

 

When you factor in the same thermostat, the delta between the highest and lowest temp was 5deg.

 

Again,charts. Yes, you can show endless data showing whatever, and you can torture the tests until they produce whatever outcome you want. 

 

Ultimately, take 2 correct weight, Dexos oils. Any 2.

Do the first oil/filter change at 750mi, the 2nd at 2,000, and every 5,000 thereafter and show me a real world difference to the owner over 250,000mi.

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, No F-bdy Bs said:

, and as if to illustrate my point. 

 

When you factor in the same thermostat, the delta between the highest and lowest temp was 5deg.

 

Again,charts. Yes, you can show endless data showing whatever, and you can torture the tests until they produce whatever outcome you want. 

 

Ultimately, take 2 correct weight, Dexos oils. Any 2.

Do the first oil/filter change at 750mi, the 2nd at 2,000, and every 5,000 thereafter and show me a real world difference to the owner over 250,000mi.

 

5,000 miles? Why not the book 7,500 miles? Either way, do I get to pick the "real world" service? 

 

You think I 'tortured' Pepper to 'get a result'. Anyone want to field that ball? 

 

Math not your long suit? Arrhenius Rule describes the exponential relationship between the rate constant of a chemical reaction and temperature. Then perhaps I should have mentioned the differences in the "Oxidation Onset Temperature" as well. Arrhenius is what happens AFTER the onset temperature is breached and POA/POE is quit a bit higher than a Group II/III Full Synthetic. So 5 F is huge in that context. 

 

I can show you real world in the video below BUT will it matter to you? I get the feeling your idea of a tangible result is something like, "It uses less than a quart in a thousand miles, doesn't over heat and it still running". Good for you.

 

Just short of 200K on Pepper and that motor uses no oil.        

 

This motor in the video lived on Toyota Synthetic from it's first day and is his wife's personal ride. Take note of what it had to clean up not how clean it became. The varnish is the result of following OEM recommendations using their synthetic oil. Note before and after pistons from mule engines in Valvoline's lab. 

 

Stuck rings. It's what happens on OEM intervals and shelf/OEM Synthetic oils. Doesn't happen to motors using PAO/POE-(AN) blends on sane OCI's. Stuck rings is something most people notice only in oil consumption and are GROOMED to see it as NORMAL. It isn't. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by Grumpy Bear

[Chuck FB]

2 hours ago, No F-bdy Bs said:

, and as if to illustrate my point. 

 

When you factor in the same thermostat, the delta between the highest and lowest temp was 5deg.

 

Again,charts. Yes, you can show endless data showing whatever, and you can torture the tests until they produce whatever outcome you want. 

 

Ultimately, take 2 correct weight, Dexos oils. Any 2.

Do the first oil/filter change at 750mi, the 2nd at 2,000, and every 5,000 thereafter and show me a real world difference to the owner over 250,000mi.

 

To your point of Dexos oils and then those oils that are perhaps considered slightly above but are not Dexos certified. An example and I might be able to go back and find it but it was a half ton chev truck owner in a comments section of a oil related video that had his truck from new and it has the 5.3 engine. He as he saw it meticulously changed the oil himself every 5000 miles using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and thought he was doing an excellent job of maintaining the oil quality he was using as well as the OCI. I don't recall the exact miles on his truck but it certainly was no where near 250000, I believe just over half of that in total. For some reason he decided to switch over to the Valvoline R&P 5W-30 and had ran it for 5 OCI and it was that fifth OCi that he had a photo of his filter after about 4300 miles. The filter media was a dark brown and could see fine brown deposits in the bottom of the pleat grooves and it certainly did not look like what one normally sees on a used oil filter. That R&P had been removing a massive amount of built up deposits on the inside of that engine, who's to know what the status had been of the oil control rings and the drain holes in the piston when he switched over to the R&P. I was shocked at seeing that as there has been a lot of positive talk about the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and in that sense that its considered slightly above the Dexos spec. The gist is that whatever is in the Valvoline R&P is helping reverse deposits and would stand to reason that if an oil with those additives was used from the start the deposits would be far less. Time will tell with the Mobil oil they just came out with as its being marketed on a somewhat similar theme to the R&P, or put another way it would suggest that not all the commonly obtained oils and that includes Dexos certified oils on the shelf are created equally. One thing is for sure, all the oil companies sure push to create fantastic claims for their oils and where does the truth end and the bs line begin, case in point are the mileage protection distances on some major brands and being in Canada, an example is Castrol Edge Titanium in the gold bottle with a "32000 km protection" 

[Z45]

Like the 1976 headline states;;;

 

 

Edited April 10 by Z45

[Grumpy Bear]

35 minutes ago, Z45 said:

Like the 1976 headline states;;;

 

 

 

Did you know that first formulation was a PAO/Group I blend? A pure PAO won't hold the average SAE add package. 

 

OCI claims were made on end user cost analysis not on performance. Early on PAO was silly expensive.