Gas Guzzler Legislation - 2009

unit731 · June 15, 2009

This idea has been floating around for years.

Give a tax credit (real money) off a new car or truck if you trade-in your old gas guzzler. And with this new 2009 proposed legislation, MPG must be increased on new vehicle. Technically, you pay for new vehicle and receive a tax credit on income taxes later.

Texas has this in their state.

Not liked at all by the antique and classic car groups and good junk yard parts (from junked cars) are not available as cars are crushed.

Is this a good idea or another US government giveaway?

Forgot Link:

LINK

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VMax2007 · June 15, 2009

Mmmmmm...Pie! I like pie.

txab · June 15, 2009

FREE CARS FOR EVERYONE!

This is a voucher program. The only tax credit would be for buying a hybrid, not for dropping off a clunker. They will pay the most for the newest "clunkers", the least for the oldest. Seems to make more sense to pay more to get the oldest more polluting cars off the road. I have also seen a version of this that cars could be late 80's models and qualify.

From Dianne Fwonknstein's website

Washington, DC – A measure introduced today by U.S. Senators Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Susan Collins (R-Maine), and Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) would establish a national voucher program to enable and encourage drivers to voluntarily trade in their older, less fuel efficient car, truck or SUV for a more fuel efficient vehicle.

Specifically, the so-called “Cash for Clunkers” program would reimburse drivers with a credit of $2,500 to $4,500 for drivers who turn in fuel-inefficient vehicles to be scrapped, and purchase a more fuel efficient vehicle. The traded-in vehicles must have a fuel economy of no more than 18 miles per gallon, be in drivable condition, and have been registered for at least the past 120 days. Vouchers could also be redeemed for transit fares for participating local public transportation agencies. The program would operate for four years, from 2009 – 2012, and is expected to encourage the early retirement of up to one million vehicles per year.

“Last Congress, we successfully enacted legislation – which I authored with Senator Snowe and others – to improve the fuel efficiency of America’s fleet of new cars, trucks and SUVs by at least 10 miles per gallon over 10 years. But we face real challenges with trying to encourage drivers to trade in their older, less fuel efficient vehicles – particularly in this tough economic climate,” Senator Feinstein said.

“This bill will help address that problem. It will create a voucher program to reimburse drivers who trade in their old cars, trucks and SUVs with a coupon of $2,500 to $4,500, depending on the fuel efficiency of the purchased car. If enacted, this bill would be an important part of helping getting America’s struggling automobile industry back on its feet – and help consumers who are concerned about covering the cost of buying a more fuel efficient vehicle. I’d like to thank my colleague Senator Salazar for his leadership in helping to craft some of the bill’s key concepts,” Senator Feinstein added.

“This legislation would give consumers an incentive to turn over their old, inefficient vehicles, saving 80,000 barrels of motor fuel every day,” Senator Collins said. “Taking these cars and trucks off our roads and highways would help reduce our dependence on foreign oil, decrease greenhouse gas emissions, and stimulate the economy. In addition, it would help boost demand for manufacturers of newer, efficient models and bring in new business for car dealers who are struggling in the current economy.”

Senator Schumer said: “For Americans who have a clunker sitting in their driveway, this is an even better trade-in offer than they could get from any car dealership. Our proposal will take inefficient cars off the roads in exchange for a down payment on a newer, cleaner vehicle. Car owners also have the option of swapping their old car for vouchers to ride their local bus or subway for free. This is a classic win-win that can provide stimulus for the economy and make long-term gains for the environment.”

When implemented, as estimated by the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy, the program would:

* Save between 40,000 to 80,000 barrels per day of motor fuel by the end of the fourth year, (based on an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 vouchers issued per year).

* Reduce greenhouse gas emissions between 6.6 million metric tons to 7.6 million metric tons, or the equivalent of removing 1.1 million to 2.2 million vehicles from the road in one year, (based on an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 vouchers issued per year).

* Reduce nitrogen oxides, which cause ground-level ozone (a leading cause of respiratory health problems, like asthma), by 3,043 short tons (2,761 metric tons) by 2013, (based on an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 vouchers issued per year).

The legislation is intended to help compliment the implementation of the new fuel economy law – authored by Senators Feinstein, Snowe and others – which would raise average fuel economy standards for America’s fleet of vehicles by at least 10 miles per gallon (mpg) over 10 years or from 25 mpg to at least 35 mpg by Model Year 2020.

Companion legislation is also being introduced today in the House by Representatives Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), Jay Inslee (D-Wash.), Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), and Dennis Moore (D-Kansas).

How the legislation would work:

Eligible drivers would receive a reimbursement voucher for the purchase of a new or used vehicle with a fuel economy rating that exceeds the CAFE target for that class of vehicle by at least 25 percent. The bill also requires that the voucher be used towards the purchase of a vehicle that has an MSRP of less than $45,000, is model year 2004 or later, and meets or exceeds federal emissions standards. Vouchers could also be redeemed for transit fares for participating local public transportation agencies.

Drivers who apply for the program must ensure that their vehicles turned in for scrapping match the following criteria:

* Vehicles must be in drivable condition;

* Be currently registered in the U.S.; and

* Have a when-new fuel economy rating of less than 18 miles per gallon (as reported by the original manufacturer for purposes of CAFE compliance).

The bill specifies that during the first year of the program, vouchers will be issued for the following amounts:

* For traded-in vehicles that are model year 2002 and later, drivers would receive a voucher for:

o The purchase of a new vehicle: $4,500

o The purchase of a used vehicle: $3,000

o Transit fare credit: $3,000

* For traded-in vehicles that are model year 1999 – 2001, drivers would receive a voucher for:

o The purchase of a new vehicle: $3,000

o The purchase of a used vehicle: $2,000

o Transit fare credit: $2,000

* For traded-in vehicles that are model year 1998 and earlier, drivers would receive a voucher for:

o The purchase of a new vehicle: $2,000

o The purchase of a used vehicle: $1,500

o Transit fare credit: $1,500

In each subsequent year (2010, 2011, and 2012), the model years would be advanced by one year. Vouchers would be eligible for redemption for up to two years after the date of issuance, and no individual would be eligible to obtain more than one voucher in any three-year period. Dealers, dismantlers and scrap recycling facilities would also be eligible for a payment of $50 per vehicle, or an alternative amount to be specified by the Department of Energy.

mikevmax · June 15, 2009

I think it is a bad idea. It will take alot of parts and cars of the road.Someone who like to drive a older car will have a harder time finding used part and cars.

Nick The Great · June 15, 2009

They can shove the money. I'll gladly pay $3000 - $4500 not to drive a little shit-box car.

Now why my tax dollars are going to pay people to buy hybrids is beyond me. But that's gov't for ya.

dreisenauer · June 16, 2009

Not a fan. We already borrow too much money from China and we have no idea how to pay it back. National debt is 11 Trillion and counting.....

gmchevroletruck · June 16, 2009

I hope to God they don't do any of this. It's a shame. For those of us who choose to drive older vehicles, to avoid car payments and such, and in some cases prefer these vehicles for certain reasons, it will, as you say, increase the cost of replacement parts to a large degree, due to lesser supply of these parts. I would venture to guess that, even though it may not directly reduce the supply of new parts for these vehicles, it would indirectly, because if the parts suppliers realize they're not competing with the used market anymore, they have the market cornered.

Not that myself or anyone is just a huge fan of guzzling gas, in and of itself, but all things considered, it really should be the choice of the individual owner what they feel works best for them, to own

hockeypro1411 · June 18, 2009

FREE CARS FOR EVERYONE!

This is a voucher program. The only tax credit would be for buying a hybrid, not for dropping off a clunker. They will pay the most for the newest "clunkers", the least for the oldest. Seems to make more sense to pay more to get the oldest more polluting cars off the road. I have also seen a version of this that cars could be late 80's models and qualify.

From Dianne Fwonknstein's website

Washington, DC – A measure introduced today by U.S. Senators Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Susan Collins (R-Maine), and Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) would establish a national voucher program to enable and encourage drivers to voluntarily trade in their older, less fuel efficient car, truck or SUV for a more fuel efficient vehicle.

Specifically, the so-called "Cash for Clunkers" program would reimburse drivers with a credit of $2,500 to $4,500 for drivers who turn in fuel-inefficient vehicles to be scrapped, and purchase a more fuel efficient vehicle. The traded-in vehicles must have a fuel economy of no more than 18 miles per gallon, be in drivable condition, and have been registered for at least the past 120 days. Vouchers could also be redeemed for transit fares for participating local public transportation agencies. The program would operate for four years, from 2009 – 2012, and is expected to encourage the early retirement of up to one million vehicles per year.

"Last Congress, we successfully enacted legislation – which I authored with Senator Snowe and others – to improve the fuel efficiency of America's fleet of new cars, trucks and SUVs by at least 10 miles per gallon over 10 years. But we face real challenges with trying to encourage drivers to trade in their older, less fuel efficient vehicles – particularly in this tough economic climate," Senator Feinstein said.

"This bill will help address that problem. It will create a voucher program to reimburse drivers who trade in their old cars, trucks and SUVs with a coupon of $2,500 to $4,500, depending on the fuel efficiency of the purchased car. If enacted, this bill would be an important part of helping getting America's struggling automobile industry back on its feet – and help consumers who are concerned about covering the cost of buying a more fuel efficient vehicle. I'd like to thank my colleague Senator Salazar for his leadership in helping to craft some of the bill's key concepts," Senator Feinstein added.

"This legislation would give consumers an incentive to turn over their old, inefficient vehicles, saving 80,000 barrels of motor fuel every day," Senator Collins said. "Taking these cars and trucks off our roads and highways would help reduce our dependence on foreign oil, decrease greenhouse gas emissions, and stimulate the economy. In addition, it would help boost demand for manufacturers of newer, efficient models and bring in new business for car dealers who are struggling in the current economy."

Senator Schumer said: "For Americans who have a clunker sitting in their driveway, this is an even better trade-in offer than they could get from any car dealership. Our proposal will take inefficient cars off the roads in exchange for a down payment on a newer, cleaner vehicle. Car owners also have the option of swapping their old car for vouchers to ride their local bus or subway for free. This is a classic win-win that can provide stimulus for the economy and make long-term gains for the environment."

When implemented, as estimated by the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy, the program would:

* Save between 40,000 to 80,000 barrels per day of motor fuel by the end of the fourth year, (based on an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 vouchers issued per year).

* Reduce greenhouse gas emissions between 6.6 million metric tons to 7.6 million metric tons, or the equivalent of removing 1.1 million to 2.2 million vehicles from the road in one year, (based on an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 vouchers issued per year).

* Reduce nitrogen oxides, which cause ground-level ozone (a leading cause of respiratory health problems, like asthma), by 3,043 short tons (2,761 metric tons) by 2013, (based on an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 vouchers issued per year).

The legislation is intended to help compliment the implementation of the new fuel economy law – authored by Senators Feinstein, Snowe and others – which would raise average fuel economy standards for America's fleet of vehicles by at least 10 miles per gallon (mpg) over 10 years or from 25 mpg to at least 35 mpg by Model Year 2020.

Companion legislation is also being introduced today in the House by Representatives Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), Jay Inslee (D-Wash.), Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), and Dennis Moore (D-Kansas).

How the legislation would work:

Eligible drivers would receive a reimbursement voucher for the purchase of a new or used vehicle with a fuel economy rating that exceeds the CAFE target for that class of vehicle by at least 25 percent. The bill also requires that the voucher be used towards the purchase of a vehicle that has an MSRP of less than $45,000, is model year 2004 or later, and meets or exceeds federal emissions standards. Vouchers could also be redeemed for transit fares for participating local public transportation agencies.

Drivers who apply for the program must ensure that their vehicles turned in for scrapping match the following criteria:

* Vehicles must be in drivable condition;

* Be currently registered in the U.S.; and

* Have a when-new fuel economy rating of less than 18 miles per gallon (as reported by the original manufacturer for purposes of CAFE compliance).

The bill specifies that during the first year of the program, vouchers will be issued for the following amounts:

* For traded-in vehicles that are model year 2002 and later, drivers would receive a voucher for:

o The purchase of a new vehicle: $4,500

o The purchase of a used vehicle: $3,000

o Transit fare credit: $3,000

* For traded-in vehicles that are model year 1999 – 2001, drivers would receive a voucher for:

o The purchase of a new vehicle: $3,000

o The purchase of a used vehicle: $2,000

o Transit fare credit: $2,000

* For traded-in vehicles that are model year 1998 and earlier, drivers would receive a voucher for:

o The purchase of a new vehicle: $2,000

o The purchase of a used vehicle: $1,500

o Transit fare credit: $1,500

In each subsequent year (2010, 2011, and 2012), the model years would be advanced by one year. Vouchers would be eligible for redemption for up to two years after the date of issuance, and no individual would be eligible to obtain more than one voucher in any three-year period. Dealers, dismantlers and scrap recycling facilities would also be eligible for a payment of $50 per vehicle, or an alternative amount to be specified by the Department of Energy.

Since when the hell is 18 MPG a gas guzzler? ...These people would have a field day with my truck... I wonder if they'll give us more money for worse MPG cars that we trade in.

fbachman · June 18, 2009

I believe the origin of this idea stems from Europe. England currently has such an implemented so-called "clunker credit", and Germany is either beating it around, or has already introduced it. In England they are claiming that it has boosted new-car sales significantly, though I have no way or data to know if that's true.

Now, generally, in Europe folks migrate towrads fuel efficient cars ANYWAY because of HIGHLY taxed fuels, rediculous gas-guzzler taxes (as THEY define gas-guzzlers) and insurance rates that are based on official HP and displacement (at least Germany does that and have for years).

The NEtherlands are actually kicking around an idea right now to tax vehicles based on a per-mile-driven charge.

LOADS MORE GREAT IDEAS FOR OUR FRIENDS IN DC TO IMPLEMENT.

beboswell · June 19, 2009

So how are all those guys that work for me supposed to get that equipment to the job behind those Prius'. I hear they don't tow much! Oh, I forgot. We'll be able to buy those OUTSTANDING Fiat products.

pennzoil29 · June 19, 2009

I call

unit731 · June 19, 2009

So how are all those guys that work for me supposed to get that equipment to the job behind those Prius'. I hear they don't tow much! Oh, I forgot. We'll be able to buy those OUTSTANDING Fiat products.

Yes, Fiat does have trucks.

LINK

OkstateSD · June 19, 2009

I'm actually considering this. I have a Jeep SRT8 that has an EPA 14mpg highway rating and am a couple grand upside down on. I can get almost any truck I want and get enough in gov't credit to offset my negative equity. Then take $8k off the sales price and 0% financing and I'm lookin good!

beboswell · June 19, 2009

Yeah, I knew Fiat makes trucks. I'm just being a smart ass. ( Hard to beleive, huh? ) I just have a problem with the government getting this involved in promoting certain types of products, or services. It's not their job!! If they want to stimulate the economy by getting people to buy cars, then great. Give incentives to buy WHICHEVER car the person wants, not just certain ones they want them to buy. Although in my opinion they should only give incentives to buy American cars, but then I'm an incurable patriot. It bothers me when a man pretending to be the President that represents all of the people in the country stands up in front of the world and says that Chrysler made inferior vehicles that nobody wanted to buy when he was driving a 300M during his campaign until someone called him on it. GM, Dodge, and Ford built trucks and SUV's because that's what we wanted and that's what we were buying. The financial problems were due to management issues, not vehicle issues. I employ 76 people and if I mismanage my business 76 people are unemployed, no if's and's or but's. I'm responsible for me. Now there's a concept!!

Mike2500HD · June 20, 2009

Yeah, I knew Fiat makes trucks. I'm just being a smart ass. ( Hard to beleive, huh? ) I just have a problem with the government getting this involved in promoting certain types of products, or services. It's not their job!! If they want to stimulate the economy by getting people to buy cars, then great. Give incentives to buy WHICHEVER car the person wants, not just certain ones they want them to buy. Although in my opinion they should only give incentives to buy American cars, but then I'm an incurable patriot. It bothers me when a man pretending to be the President that represents all of the people in the country stands up in front of the world and says that Chrysler made inferior vehicles that nobody wanted to buy when he was driving a 300M during his campaign until someone called him on it. GM, Dodge, and Ford built trucks and SUV's because that's what we wanted and that's what we were buying. The financial problems were due to management issues, not vehicle issues. I employ 76 people and if I mismanage my business 76 people are unemployed, no if's and's or but's. I'm responsible for me. Now there's a concept!!

good to hear a vote of no confidence in our all knowing government. government is the problem not the answer... ALWAYS. these people spent so much time talking down the economy during bush they destroyed all confidence in the economy despite it really not being too bad. then after they took over they tried to look like they were in control and were going to save everyone. watching Nancy Pelosi and barney frank lie through their teeth on tv every night is not at all confidence inspiring. nancy flies back and forth from d.c. to the west coast every week and has the audacity to scold the auto execs for flying to d.c in corporate jets. the polatitions all take money from special interests and then they condemn bankers for getting bonuses. government regulations forcing the banks to loan money to people who could never pay it back destroy the housing market and nearly topple the banks and the very people who caused it are in control of saving us now. government regs and union contracts kill GM and the government and the unions end up owning GM to save it...they keep shipping our jobs over seas and manufacturing to china to the point where we almost make NOTHING in the U.S. and then everyone looks at the national debt. How the hell are we ever going to pay the debt if we manufacture NOTHING? where does national wealth come from? if not from building and selling stuff? we are so totally screwed. how does it help the U.S. economy for Chrysler to be owned by Fiat? a few jobs aint going to do it. its not about jobs as much as manufacturing. we need to buy AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS... or do without. i have been trying to do so always. its become almost imposible. the government is the problem. greedy execs are the problem. none of them are doing anything to help the people. they are just continuing to help themselvs. the news is B.S. the bank foreclosures never even hit 10% and supposedly it was all those adjustable rate mortgages. but tell me why they would have gone up and screwed those people out of their houses when the prime went to 0% ??? the arms should have either stayed flat or went down. im sorry but it all seems like a flim flam deal to me. its ok for iran to have nuke power but not the U.S. ...what? we cant drill for oil in the gulf but the chinese have rigs just outside our territorial waters drilling sideways under us and stealing our oil..what?? cant drill in Alaska to save the environment but the Alaska pipeline has a perfect record of safety..what? Bush hails from Texas...bunch of idiot inbreeders there.....they have a buget surplus and growing economy..what???? obama hails from Illinois...their smarter there..more sensible and educated..bankrupt..what??? California..all the enlightened intelectuals live there...bankrupt..what???? give me a friggin break. we are sold down the river lock stock and barrel. buy guns and ammo... your going to need it. but in the mean time buy AMERICAN..or do without. your going to be without anyway so we might as well stick together and keep it. ohh yea and all the clunker law B.S. .. the Japs did that as well. but they didnt hide behind and enviro B.S. they just want everyone to keep having to buy new cars to support the economy. as your car gets older the tax increases evaporating any savings from being payed off. dont drink the coolaid...buy AMERICAN and fight everything they say is for us. wake up and see th facts. your paying for it all and getting nothing. face it were all middle class working people in here. its not about the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. the rich stay rich.. the poor get it for free.. and the middle class pays for it all. yup. im pissed off...