How Does One Make Money Plowing Snow?

[C2500]

I have the opportunity to purchase a plow setup for my 2500HD for a reasonable price. The problem as I see it is how can you make any money plowing? Most of the plow trucks I see in my area are ragged out old half ton trucks and they charge accordingly. My buddy is the manager of a local IGA and I asked him what he pays to get the lot plowed. He replied that over the last 2 years, he has had a guy do it for $75 a pass. Another friend of mine owns a small carry out and he has found someone to do it for $20 and a bottle of booze. When I drive into town, it seems as if every old piece of crap truck (and even an old short school bus) has a plow strapped to it and it appears this excessive competition has really driven the rates down to the point that I can't see how people with a nice plowing rig can make enough money to justify the expense.

 

I live in southwestern Ohio but I assume this is the situation in a lot of places so how does one make money plowing?

 

P.S. Sorry about the typo in the title. I tried to edit it and it wouldn't let me.

 

 

Thanks

[Kodiak450]

What kind of area is the place you are talking about? My service area is all upper class (not suggesting you have to service upper class to make money). I've plowed in middle class areas and made lots of money. Get yourself advertised in the local yellow book and internet, I get alot of work from both. Everyone comes from a start and your business builds over time. If you go yellow book, I suggest bold heading, and make sure you get on top of list by adding A or multiple A's before company listing. When I bought my first plow, I was making a minium of $1000 with the accounts I acquired. You'll loose some and gain some every year, just gotta know your price and what others are charging in the area. I never heard of an IGA, so I am assuming it is like a 7/11 or a quik check? The term pass usually means plowing a path to open up flow of traffic, I personally don't use the term myself. If someone is actually plowing that lot for $75, it sounds way under priced imo. Then again I do not know what size it is, or location class. I charge a minium of $45 for small driveways (about 2-3 car lengths in length). On average, most of my driveways are $65 and up, some $450 ones. Also do private roads which go anywhere from $450- $1700. Commericial lots, industrial lots, small strip malls, all high 3 figures and up. Salting all the above all at additional cost. To sum it up in a nut shell, if I were to go out and buy a brand new western pro plus 8.0, it would pay for itself plus profit at the end of my last account per storm. Keep in mind, I have an established business and not much competition that advertises in my area, so I can get alot of calls per storm form people that are not contracted with a snow plowing company. It takes time to figure the market, and what other companies are charging. When I moved out west of my state, it took me some time to figure the prices out as back east I was making more plowing, for less area (mainly because it was within 20 miles of NYC and alot of people that live in that area, work in or by the city.

 

You can't really go on what other companies charge from a different geographical area, as it all depends on the wealth and economy of the area you are interested in plowing. I'm sure if I were to move out to Alaska, I wouldn't be making thousands of dollars per storm as it is a different area out there. Being very rural, and the feet of snow on average that the state gets every year. Many people probably invested in their own plows and take care of the plowing themselves. Sort of like trying to sell a snow thrower in Florida, there is no market for it. The northeast is a very wealthy, populated area, so us NE guys are going to do very well. And also other areas that are near a populated area (especially a major city) they too should do well. Get out in the boonies, you wont make as much, espeically if everyone has a plow.

 

With older trucks that look like they belong in a junk yard an have plows on them. Some companies will have these trucks as they are required to have a plow truck on commericial lots like BJ's, costco, Depot, Lowes, ect, as part of the contract. And would rather not have their nicer plow trucks broken into, vandalized, ect. I know of a walmart back east that requires the contractor to have a plow truck on their lot all season long. The truck in question doesn't even run, he put an old POS plow on it and tows the truck there and has it parked all season. His company is pretty dam big and he makes over a million a year if not more between snow plowing and his lawn business along with construction. I personally don't get involved with those big commericial lots, I have done sub work for companies plowing big commericial lots for $200 an hour using my truck, but $200 an hour is not enough for me at this point in the game as I make much more then that if I were to add it up at the end of the day.

 

If I were you, and you are on a budget starting out (which there is nothing wrong with that) everyone has to start some where. If you could afford it, take out an add in your local yellow book for under $400 a year. If thats too much, you could do fliers, but it is consuming going door to door. Get yourself listed on a major search engine like Google. You can get a basic free listing. Maybe post some fliers in super markets, post offices, places where people shop. Be prepared for your competition to either post a flier over yours, or worse tear it down. If your local townships permit it, you can get signs made and post them at intersections (some guys do that here) I personally don't because most people aren't gonna pull over to find a pen and paper to write down a number, they'll look in the yellow book, or do a google search. Get magnets or lettering on your truck (most states require commericial plates) and registration if you letter your truck, cause it is considered a commericial vehicle. Sometimes you also get lucky with wave downs during storms, storms that are a foot or more and people do not want to shovel it. If you do get a wave down, do an exceptional job, even clear snow away from their mailbox out on the road. They see you do a great job, you might be able to get them for a contract. Regarding contracts, you can't be picky on a certain area you only want to plow, you gotta travel and expand out to make money and get your feet wet when starting off. I use to plow places that were 40 miles away from my home base and did it for years! Now I can safely be choosy and stay local cause of all the contracts I have. It is better to be local, cause you are able to get your contracts plowed out in a timely manner. When theya re spread out, you can't be everywhere at once and hope that the contracts you get don't have to be cleared out by a certain time.

 

The plow you are thinking of buying, what brand is it and how old? And how much?

[Doug_Scott]

why does walmart want a plow parked in the lot all winter?

[Superperv23]

I'm not into plowing but that was an interesting read Hen Avenger, well done.

[RaddHazzard]

why does walmart want a plow parked in the lot all winter?

 

I would assume so there is no excuse as to why the lot didnt get plowed. Having a plow on site guarantees it will be plowed and no "the truck got stuck en route ten miles away."

[sahls01gmc]

Well said Hen Avenger, I couldn't have stated that any better.

 

There is a whole lot to plowing, it isn't as easy as showing up with a plow and making money. Although, you seem to have gotten yourself to that position over years of hard work.

 

I'm in the process of going out on my own, and although it's a gamble with the weather, I feel confident enough to make enough money the first year to keep above and keep me going to next year, and keep building from there.

[sonjaab]

IGA........Independent Grocery Alliance

A large grocery store partner/alliance.

 

 

Most large mega store lots have those giant payloaders with pusher

boxes on site either because its required by the contact and/or its

a PIA to move them from site to site.

Heck.............you just can't run one up the road with a 20 foot

pusher box attached!

 

Wally world and other big box retailers now use national service

providers to low-ball/bid out the stores snow/landscaping services

to unsuspecting contractors !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Read the stories of woe about low prices, non/slow payment, full

shifting of total liability from the store to the plowing contractor

for any slip and fall, 10-20% deduction/holdback for total payment

and other fancy tricks the nationals use to screw the contractor outta

their money and the list is endless..................

Quite the change from a few years back...............

 

Lots of rolling wrecks doing smaller lots/driveways in my area for

a few bucks/pizzas/six packs killing prices !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Read all about it"

http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums

[C2500]

I appreciate all of the responses. I checked out the "Letstalksnow.com" and a couple of other sites and I have decided to not mess with it, at least for this year. It appears that the "lowballer" problem exists everywhere. People with junk equipment and no insurance can always do it for less and it appears that many potential customers can't tell the difference. They just look at the price.

 

 

Hen , thanks for your well-stated response, especially. The plow setup I was looking at is a 8' Fisher straight blade and mount. It's a few years old but appears to be in good shape. The owner is asking $1200 which seemed reasonable to me. But, as I stated before, I think I am going to pass and revisit the issue another year.

[Kodiak450]

I appreciate all of the responses. I checked out the "Letstalksnow.com" and a couple of other sites and I have decided to not mess with it, at least for this year. It appears that the "lowballer" problem exists everywhere. People with junk equipment and no insurance can always do it for less and it appears that many potential customers can't tell the difference. They just look at the price.

 

 

Hen , thanks for your well-stated response, especially. The plow setup I was looking at is a 8' Fisher straight blade and mount. It's a few years old but appears to be in good shape. The owner is asking $1200 which seemed reasonable to me. But, as I stated before, I think I am going to pass and revisit the issue another year.

 

Thats a really good price for a fisher thats only a few years old, I'd buy it! Providing you are getting the mountaining carton and all electrical with it.

 

Other factors getting into the business is studying the weather patterns. Are you in an area that gets enough snow on average a year? It gets extremely risky if you are in an area say like DC, where they average about only a foot a year. However, the last two winters have been spectacular for them as far as getting hammered with snow, but also unusual. $1200 does not take long for someone starting off in the buiness to make that back pretty quickly. At worst case scenerio if you dont have any type of advertising and are relying on wave downs, you might break even by the end of the season. I would not recomend anyone to approach this practice if starting up in the business. I know new plow set ups are alot more money these days, but they are also built better imo then the previous generations.

 

To answer the question about walmart requiring a plow truck on their lot all season, the answer is what was said. They wont peice of mind and no excuses why their lot wasn't taken care of in time.

 

Son: My brother went to a convention recently and they had venders with plow implements for heavy machinery and they had a box plow where you can add 2' sections to make it really wide or really small if you removed them. I thought that was a really cool concept as you have the ability to plow large lots, and the flexibilty to get into tight areas where a plow that size would not fit. You probably seen it before, or heard of it, but it was a first for me hearing and seeing about it.

 

The cut throats don't last long in the business. Most of these guys are weekend warriors, that will not commit to shoiwng up at 3 am to plow their customers on a regualr basis. And if they had an accident and hit a clients car, or house and no insurance, they are outta business real fast! I remember some Co. which ran an add for snow removal when I lived back on the east part of my state in Jersey. They wrote "we beat our competition" in their add. So one day I happened to stumble upon their truck while in the neighborhood servicing one of my clients. They guy had a S10 pick up and 3 snow blowers. I was like "competition?" I don't think so.

 

You are correct about alot of people not caring if the snow plowing company has insurance, but I'm sure if an incident happened where the uninsured snow plower did substantial damage via an accident, he would be screwed. Snow plowing insurance is not alot of money, it's a $300 add on to my general liablity policy. My insurance company calls it street sweeping or some strange phrase like that. Don't know why, but they just do. Also regarding insurance, I know in NJ if you put a plow on your truck and do not have snow plowing insurance, and just carry a residential auto policy and happen to rear end someone, or hit a structure, or for that matter have any type of accident which the plow caused the damage, the insurance company will drop you and NOT cover you. Then you also have to look out for certain police in different townships. They could cite you for using a residential vehicle for commericial purposes. I know of a few towns in jersey that the police used to pull people over for having an extension ladder on their residential pick up trucks and citing them for using a residential vehicle for commericial purposes. The people in question were roofers, and did jobs on the sides on weekends or after work hours. Most township police wont bother with you, but just to let you know, they could if they wanted to.

 

Getting back to starting off. I would try to acquire accounts before the season started, then base my purchase on how much potential money I would make at a minimum. Alot of people start off with snow thrower, but seeing this guy is willing to part that fisher for $1200, that is a really good price for a fisher that is only 3 years old. Fishers aren't bad plows at all either, they are built well and Western owns them too! Some people actually swear by their bottom trip edge and will not use any other brand besides fisher. Though seeing fishers here are rare, most contractors use western.

[Kodiak450]

Also a brand new 8' fisher will cost over $5k new.

[topdj]

well you need a truck that is in good shape think cream puff 2500 that gramps pulled his 25ft camper with 6 or 7 times a year.

Then find plow used in good shape, one that the person did his own driveway and a few others with. Now I gave you a challenge lol.

What ever you do you don't go buy a 50000 plow rig unless you have the work lined up .

[DALE#3]

I pay to get plowed by brother and friend depending on who's rig ain't broke,They will depends on driver obviously.They do residential mostly set up work with short drives not driving distance to do one house.Get paid before plow.Keep extra oil,hoses and pins.And 5 hour energy drinks for the long nites

[Z45]

Long time friend used to plow my drives for $600/yr. He gave it up last year. Says with all the time he spent (6am to noon at times), gas and repairs he was working for a $1 an hr. Some people just can be sob to deal with. If you charge them a monthly fee they will complain its too much and want money back if it snow too little that month. If you charge them per pass they will complain its to much. Also, make sure they pay in advance as its harder collect later on. Dave said he had some people show him precise records of how much time he spent on their drive and how much time he spent on the neighbors drive. The compared costs and called him a crook for charging them differently even though the drives were not the same size. Not to mention a few calls in the spring from people asking him when he was coming over to fix their lawn his plowed scarped.

 

Around here most all the big lots hire local construction contractors to plow them with big loaders. Small truck could not get the job done or be able to move the banks far enough.

[RLB-Motorsports]

I have lost a few smaller store lots like the dollar stores to the smaller guy who wants to get rich and under bids me after a few good snows I get calls to see if I would come back because the cheaper little guy doesn't keep the lot clean or never on time with gas prices cost of upkeep, ins. and so on and so on its hard to make money anymore unlike just 5 years ago when I was so busy I hated to see it snow even the small drive is hard to keep. What makes it worse is I live in a small town unlike a big city have to drive between jobs just makes it harder. Good luck on making money plowing snow in these times! lucky some times to break even if you have to do any repairs!

[Kodiak450]

I have lost a few smaller store lots like the dollar stores to the smaller guy who wants to get rich and under bids me after a few good snows I get calls to see if I would come back because the cheaper little guy doesn't keep the lot clean or never on time with gas prices cost of upkeep, ins. and so on and so on its hard to make money anymore unlike just 5 years ago when I was so busy I hated to see it snow even the small drive is hard to keep. What makes it worse is I live in a small town unlike a big city have to drive between jobs just makes it harder. Good luck on making money plowing snow in these times! lucky some times to break even if you have to do any repairs!

 

 

If it were me, I would charge those previous customers more money. You just became a more valuable contractor to them.

 

Repairs and breaking even? No offense, but you most not be making alot of money of repair costs are a concerned. The amount of money I make off snow plowing, I have no problems with having to shell out for repairs. Yes it can be an inconvienence, but keeping your truck in running condition is a must. Without it, you can't make money.