Looking at 3 1/2" or 4" lift. Question for the experts!

['17 Sierra]

I've done numerous searches here and I've looked at Fab Tech, Super Lift, RC, BDS, Zone. I don't do much off roading but I do like that height of a lift. the 3 1/2 Super Lift looks like what I want as far as the amount of lift and I really want to keep the geometry as stock as possible. Also want to not stress the CV's and U-Joints and it looks like most of these have a small diff drop too, which is good. What is the best one to maintain reliability? I won't go radical with tires either but K02's slightly larger than stock is a possibility. I probably will need spacers for offset to prevent rubbing (like 1/4") and I see Borla is recommended for that. Just looking for input here...

Thanks guys,

John

[jimmyboy8301]

As far as a “true” lift your best options are the Zone 4.5” or BDS 4”. They’ll keep all the angles stock and will maintain excellent ride quality.


2017 Chevy Silverado LTZ Z71 6.2L
4.5" Zone w/ Bilstein and Fox
22x10 American Force Grips
33x12.5 Nitto Ridge Grapplers
Instagram @wildchevys

[diegosaurus]

I recently discovered that fabtech gen 2 knuckle lift claims not to widen stock track width.

[Sean D]

Go with cst spindle lift it exactly what you are  asking for.

 

https://cstsuspension.com/207-lift-kit-2014-2018-1500-2wd.html

[Nasty]

37 minutes ago, Sean D said:

Go with cst spindle lift it exactly what you are  asking for.

 

https://cstsuspension.com/207-lift-kit-2014-2018-1500-2wd.html

Hes 4wd so that wouldnt work to well

[EDL]

Whatever you decide, just know that lifting is going to cause more wear on the drive line, even with a diff drop.  For 4" or less, it will be minimal, and you can keep your CV angles close to stock, but that doesn't address transfer case and rear angles.  Above 4" and things start to get worse quickly. 

 

If you increase tire diameter, depending an how far you go, you also have to consider regearing the diffs, otherwise you put a lot of strain on the transmission.  A size or two larger than stock isn't an issue, but if you step up to 35's, regear the diffs. 

 

Offset of wheels, never, ever, ever use spacers.  Those damn things are dangerous.  Puts a lot of strain on the spindles.  Get properly offset wheels instead.  DAMHIKT.

[jimmyboy8301]

Whatever you decide, just know that lifting is going to cause more wear on the drive line, even with a diff drop.  For 4" or less, it will be minimal, and you can keep your CV angles close to stock, but that doesn't address transfer case and rear angles.  Above 4" and things start to get worse quickly.    If you increase tire diameter, depending an how far you go, you also have to consider regearing the diffs, otherwise you put a lot of strain on the transmission.  A size or two larger than stock isn't an issue, but if you step up to 35's, regear the diffs.   

Offset of wheels, never, ever, ever use spacers.  Those damn things are dangerous.  Puts a lot of strain on the spindles.  Get properly offset wheels instead.  DAMHIKT.

 

 

 

If you buy a quality spacer such as BORA that’s hub/lug/wheel centric you’re fine absolutely nothing to worry about. A lot of people that don’t know better see “wheel spacers” and think of the devil lol.  And as far as drive line wear, again if you have a quality lift nothing to worry about. If you get a 4” lift and try to add a 3” spacer then you’ll have issues. Like anything else , use quality parts and common sense and you shouldn’t have any issues. I’ve had 7 lifted trucks, all with quality parts and not one issue.

 

 

2017 Chevy Silverado LTZ Z71 6.2L

4.5" Zone w/ Bilstein and Fox

22x10 American Force Grips

33x12.5 Nitto Ridge Grapplers

Instagram @wildchevys

 

 

 

[EDL]

Centricity isn't the issue with a spacer.  When you move the wheel out from the hub you apply more leverage to the spindle and ultimately, the bearings as a result.  Worst case scenario, you put a ridiculous amount of space and snap your spindle (ask the ricers about that), but usually what happens is you wear out wheel bearings sooner.  Very small spacers, like 1/8" or 1/4" at most might not be that bad, but anything over 1/4" is asking for trouble or more quickly worn bearings.

 

Quality lifts don't fix drive angle issues in all aspects.  Certain angles can't be adjusted for completely.  In the case of IFS and CV's, if you drop the diff the same as your lift (if possible due to cross member clearance), you can keep stock angles there.  You still have to address ball joint angles too, which the aftermarket A-arms do to a great extent.  The angles from the transfer case is a different matter.  Typically, from the t-case to the rear diff there aren't any vibration or binding issues in the u-joints because of the long distance (except in extreme lift situations).  From the t-case to the front diff is a different matter due to the much shorter distance.  You can also drop the t-case some, but if you try to drop the t-case, say 6" on a 6" lift, you have plenty of other things to address (shift levers, or anything that reaches from the t-case into the cabin).  Drops also add longer moment arms and thus affect torsional rigidity without further modifications. 

 

You can address drive angles at the rear diff by twisting the axle so that the input yoke is angled to meet the shaft, but the t-case will always be one of the main issues (although there are aftermarket t-cases that have angled outputs for this purpose, you're talking some serious big $$$ for them).   

 

If you stay at 4" or less on a lift, you can get by quite easily and still have a decent daily driver.  Go over 4" and you're going to have to address other drive line angle issues that most bolt-on lift kits don't.  You'll also be replacing bearings and u-joints, and possibly CV joints more frequently and depending on tire size, if you don't regear your diffs, you're going to go through transmissions more often as well.    How you drive your lifted truck matters too.  if you off road it, romp around on it a lot, or tow a lot with it, you'll definitely be replacing parts a lot more frequently.  If it's a street queen and doesn't get driven too hard or frequently used to haul heavier trailers, they'll last a bit longer.

[jimmyboy8301]

If you’re running a 6” lift at 6” you’ll be fine. The TRE, CV, Upper and Lower BJs are still within operable range. The transfer case and rears should still be fine also. Most 4-6” kits only drop the front diff 4”. Push the kit beyond and that’s where issues start. Spacers on the front of course aren’t a great idea, however on the rear to even track width is fine. Again, use common sense, if you have a 1.5” rear spacer and are running x14 wheels it may not be the best idea. I wouldn’t run over a 2” spacer and i wouldn’t run wider than x12 wheels.

 

 

2017 Chevy Silverado LTZ Z71 6.2L

4.5" Zone w/ Bilstein and Fox

22x10 American Force Grips

33x12.5 Nitto Ridge Grapplers

Instagram @wildchevys

 

[Jon A]

Increased load on the bearings comes from the offset--the location of the tire (and the load from it) relative to the bearings.  It makes little difference to the bearings whether that is achieved via a spacer or a wheel with the offset built into it.

[Nasty]

17 minutes ago, Jon A said:

Increased load on the bearings comes from the offset--the location of the tire (and the load from it) relative to the bearings.  It makes little difference to the bearings whether that is achieved via a spacer or a wheel with the offset built into it.

Its the same thing as adding a wheel with a big offset

['17 Sierra]

On 7/1/2018 at 7:54 AM, Sean D said:

Go with cst spindle lift it exactly what you are  asking for.

 

https://cstsuspension.com/207-lift-kit-2014-2018-1500-2wd.html

That's for 2WD though.

['17 Sierra]

On 7/1/2018 at 12:24 PM, EDL said:

Centricity isn't the issue with a spacer.  When you move the wheel out from the hub you apply more leverage to the spindle and ultimately, the bearings as a result.  Worst case scenario, you put a ridiculous amount of space and snap your spindle (ask the ricers about that), but usually what happens is you wear out wheel bearings sooner.  Very small spacers, like 1/8" or 1/4" at most might not be that bad, but anything over 1/4" is asking for trouble or more quickly worn bearings.

 

Quality lifts don't fix drive angle issues in all aspects.  Certain angles can't be adjusted for completely.  In the case of IFS and CV's, if you drop the diff the same as your lift (if possible due to cross member clearance), you can keep stock angles there.  You still have to address ball joint angles too, which the aftermarket A-arms do to a great extent.  The angles from the transfer case is a different matter.  Typically, from the t-case to the rear diff there aren't any vibration or binding issues in the u-joints because of the long distance (except in extreme lift situations).  From the t-case to the front diff is a different matter due to the much shorter distance.  You can also drop the t-case some, but if you try to drop the t-case, say 6" on a 6" lift, you have plenty of other things to address (shift levers, or anything that reaches from the t-case into the cabin).  Drops also add longer moment arms and thus affect torsional rigidity without further modifications. 

 

You can address drive angles at the rear diff by twisting the axle so that the input yoke is angled to meet the shaft, but the t-case will always be one of the main issues (although there are aftermarket t-cases that have angled outputs for this purpose, you're talking some serious big $$$ for them).   

 

If you stay at 4" or less on a lift, you can get by quite easily and still have a decent daily driver.  Go over 4" and you're going to have to address other drive line angle issues that most bolt-on lift kits don't.  You'll also be replacing bearings and u-joints, and possibly CV joints more frequently and depending on tire size, if you don't regear your diffs, you're going to go through transmissions more often as well.    How you drive your lifted truck matters too.  if you off road it, romp around on it a lot, or tow a lot with it, you'll definitely be replacing parts a lot more frequently.  If it's a street queen and doesn't get driven too hard or frequently used to haul heavier trailers, they'll last a bit longer.

Thanks for the detailed reply. You and I are on the same page regarding driveline angles, CV and U-Joints. I plan on keeping the same tire size maybe a bit wider because I don't plan on doing a new gear. I don't want to overload the E-steering either. I have a 2" level now; front only and any wider tire will rub due to geometry change the level has caused (front hubs are closer to the frame now). I get a slight rub at full lock backing up with stock tires and wheels. That's the reason I mentioned 1/4" spacers and I do realize the impact that has on the spindle moment/fulcrum.

[EDL]

I damn near bought a Rocky Ridge model, they are sweet looking, but I'm a bit older now (54) and practicality, comfort and less wrenching are beginning to take precedent over the cool factor :-)

 

With the exception of maybe two other trucks I've ever had (and I've had a lot of them) I've lifted them from wild to mild.  A lot of the old timers back in my youth would tell me the same things about angles and gearing and such, but I knew it all and ignored a lot of the advice.  My wallet and my ego paid for it too.

 

It certainly is an individual opinion thing, but if I were to lift my 2018, I'd do a 4" front and 2.5" rear and replace the 22" wheels with 20" properly offset to handle a 305/60R20 AT tire.   Offroaders snub their noses at large wheel diameters and low sidewall heights, and understandably so, but my truck would be a street queen, so I prefer to opt for the better road handling and less sidewall flex.  I'd drop the front diff as far as practical to get as close to stock as I could (maybe even stock would be possible with some tinkering and custom built cross member).  If money were no object, I'd do like I did on the 6" lift I put on my Ram 2500 and get aftermarket rear springs curved for the lift I wanted and avoid blocks completely (eliminates axle wrap under hard acceleration and suspension surging on the road).  After installing that, I'd start looking at front shaft angles from the t-case and see if a case drop is needed.  Also, those tires are about half inch under 35" diameter, so I'd consider regearing the diffs as well. 

 

Electric steering is something I've never dealt with on a lift, all my lifts have been on hydraulic boxes and I usually just buy a Redhead aftermarket box and add a steering brace (a solid set up). 

 

Here's a pic of my 04 Ram 2500 with 6" lift (picture is from 2013).  I put Zone 6" springs and control arms on the front, bilstein shocks, aftermarket tierods with Moog ball joints (greasable), aftermarket adjustable track bar (heim joints), dual steering dampers, Redhead steering box, steering brace, long stainless braided brake lines.  Rear got aftermarket curved leafs (no lift blocks), long stainless brake lines.  Rear axle twisted to meet drive shaft angle (shock mounts relocated for the twist).  T-case got a 3" drop and I fabricobbled my own extensions for the t-case shifter and gear selector.  All u-joints replaced with Spicers.  Diffs regeared to 4.56.  Tires are 35x12.50x17 Khumo Roadventure MT's.

Edited July 3, 2018 by EDL