Snow Traction Devices Question

Supreme Pizza · November 29, 2018

22 hours ago, Ducky said:

I've had these on my RX8... they don't last at all.

I read the reviews before buying any for myself. I did not buy them due to the short life span.

RMR · November 29, 2018

On 11/25/2018 at 2:48 PM, Tmac Z71 said:

What do you guys do in mountain areas that have certain times where chains are mandatory?

I bought autotrac chains for mine. For hunting, leaving the paved surface, going uphill, narrow passage with certain death on either side of the road, these lightweight chains fit snug and provide confidence stopping, starting and steering. Typically only need to mount the fronts. Good idea to put them on and drive a short spell before you really need to put them on. My 265/65/18 Cooper AT3s made them tight - at first. Will be easier next time around.

For the the rest of the thread - I would likely never use chains on the pavement unless there was serious packed snow, I had to be somewhere or I intended to rescue others.

Yondu · November 29, 2018

On 11/27/2018 at 12:15 AM, swathdiver said:

Over at TireRack, KO2s and DuraTracs are about even with the overall edge by a smidgen given to BFG. FWIW, the Goodyear rates .2 higher in deep snow traction.

Mine will likely not see snow anytime soon, but the KO2s are awesome in the torrential storms we get down here in the south.

That's people opinions on them, not any valid 3rd party testing. If the k02s are not rated for severe snow duty they will be inferior in snow.

Yondu · November 29, 2018

On 11/27/2018 at 6:38 AM, Kubs said:

Keep in mind that 4WD only helps with acceleration. Good snow tires will improve braking and cornering in sub par conditions as well as acceleration.

I live in Ohio where we sometimes get a good amount of snow, but it is inconsistent. I put dedicated snow tires on my Wife's malibu, but a good set of A/T tires on my truck is all I usually ever need. If I lived where winters were more severe I would do snow tires on the truck as well.

Side note, I have not changed the tires of my '18 since I bought it back in April. I am waiting to buy a new set of wheels for new tires so this winter will be on the OE Michelin all seasons. It will be interesting to see how they do.

I disagree. 4wd also helps with turning if you're doing it right. Even if the front wheels are sliding you can give it gas and pull into the turn.

swathdiver · November 30, 2018

9 hours ago, Yondu said:

That's people opinions on them, not any valid 3rd party testing. If the k02s are not rated for severe snow duty they will be inferior in snow.

No, that's not necessarily true with regards to your last statement. Your first sentence there seems to imply that the reviews are to be ignored because they lack some sort of authority. If so, I reject such thinking.

Kubs · November 30, 2018

12 hours ago, Yondu said:

I disagree. 4wd also helps with turning if you're doing it right. Even if the front wheels are sliding you can give it gas and pull into the turn.

Nope. Simple physics. If the front tires lose grip you're not going to make them change direction by adding more force (throttle). Grip is grip no matter what direction they are moving. Tires play a much larger role.

Yondu · November 30, 2018

4 hours ago, swathdiver said:

No, that's not necessarily true with regards to your last statement. Your first sentence there seems to imply that the reviews are to be ignored because they lack some sort of authority. If so, I reject such thinking.

Agree to disagree I guess. I'll trust independent testing over peer reviews anyday. They're probably getting 5 stars for snow from people who bought them and live in Texas.

Yondu · November 30, 2018

36 minutes ago, Kubs said:

Nope. Simple physics. If the front tires lose grip you're not going to make them change direction by adding more force (throttle). Grip is grip no matter what direction they are moving. Tires play a much larger role.

Nope. I've lived in snow states my whole life and it's the way it is. A 4wd truck handles better in the snow than a rwd one anyday, everyday. But yeah, tires are the most important.

swathdiver · November 30, 2018

1 hour ago, Yondu said:

I'll trust independent testing over peer reviews anyday. They're probably getting 5 stars for snow from people who bought them and live in Texas.

How many of those peer reviews include independent testing by the tire owner? Wouldn't many hundreds or thousands of reviews tend to neutralize or correct those you accuse of voting wrongly?

Should one independent testing sponsored by tire company(s) be given more weight than thousands of consumers?

As for me and my house, all are considered. More weight is given to folks who shelled out their own money and took the time to test and then write about them for others.

Yondu · November 30, 2018

4 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

How many of those peer reviews include independent testing by the tire owner? Wouldn't many hundreds or thousands of reviews tend to neutralize or correct those you accuse of voting wrongly?

Should one independent testing sponsored by tire company(s) be given more weight than thousands of consumers?

As for me and my house, all are considered. More weight is given to folks who shelled out their own money and took the time to test and then write about them for others.

If they were as good, why are they not severe snow duty rated? Bfg decide that would be a bad rating?

Of those who rated them positively, how many drive in the snow? How many just gave them 5 stars because they're way better than the worn out all seasons they had?

If you want the real comparisons read reviews from people who have had both. I've had k0s and they were not good. I have not had k02s though. Plenty of reviews online say k02s are not great winter tires.

This is why independent testing and people who have had both is far better than generic tire rack user reviews. Tire rack themselves does testing that I would trust far more. But most people buy tires every 50-70k, whatever they buy is usually better than the old worn out whatever they had. And ilagain I ask, why aren't the BFGs rated for severe snow duty?

swathdiver · November 30, 2018

59 minutes ago, Yondu said:

If they were as good, why are they not severe snow duty rated? Bfg decide that would be a bad rating?

Of those who rated them positively, how many drive in the snow? How many just gave them 5 stars because they're way better than the worn out all seasons they had?

If you want the real comparisons read reviews from people who have had both. I've had k0s and they were not good. I have not had k02s though. Plenty of reviews online say k02s are not great winter tires.

This is why independent testing and people who have had both is far better than generic tire rack user reviews. Tire rack themselves does testing that I would trust far more. But most people buy tires every 50-70k, whatever they buy is usually better than the old worn out whatever they had. And ilagain I ask, why aren't the BFGs rated for severe snow duty?

Well, according to the reviews at Tire Rack, they are .2 less good than the DuraTracs. Why did BFG not certify them? I have no idea. I'm a southerner and care about wet traction more than snow.

Yes, people who have had both is good, we agree. KOs and KO2s are apples and oranges. I have seen a handful of posts on forums from people that did not like KO2s in snow. I have seen countless dozens who not only have positive things to say about them in snow but absolutely love them in snow. Right here on this forum even.

By the way, what tire are you running? Mine runs on KO2s.

dave07 · November 30, 2018

I ran snow tires on my truck since I owned it and switched mid winter to Falken Wildpeak AT3W, they have the severe service snow rating (mountain w/ snowflake symbol). The only difference I can see between the winter tires and the AT tires is on ice which they both suck on. I can't tell any difference in stopping /acceleration/turning on snow, slush, powder. I'm a firm believe in winter tires but these new ATs are really good.

rjpoog1989 · November 30, 2018

Since when are KO2s not rated for severe snow? Mine have the 3 peak symbol on them.

garagerog · November 30, 2018

Debate the tires all you want, to me winter traction depends more on the vehicle, case in point, a light ass Mustang V-6 will break the tires loose on dry pavement with only moderate acceleration. Back in the day when I lived in eastern Wa. state my late father had 2 of the best snow rigs I've ever driven, a 75 GMC AWD (gas hog) that had mud and snow tires, and my favorite, his 78 Tornado with 403ci, longitudinal FWD that he ran with studded snow tires during the winter. Either one would cruise at 60mph + on compact snow and of course the GMC would go thru deeper drifts, but the Toro had the steering and braking confidence that the GMC p/u couldn't match.

truckguy82 · November 30, 2018

On 11/26/2018 at 11:20 AM, crushNchowda said:

Snow tires will perform better than ANY "all season" or "all terrain" tire out there, period. Studded snow tires will DESTROY anything else in winter conditions performance & its not even close.

If you can run studded snows in your area, do a lot of driving, & live in a place that can get frigid temps & snow 4-5 months outta the year, they're a great investment. They'll last 4-6 years min depending on driving conditions/mileage & also help keep your "rugged looking" AT tires nice & nubby w/ deeper tread longer. The initial hit stinks, but ultimately gets more life outta your "regular" tire setup. Also - if mounting to steelies or a cheap wheel can keep your nice expensive stock rims from getting destroyed in the winter.

Whenever I get questions like, "why would you run snow tires on a 4x4 truck" I just roll my eyes - I've lived in new England my whole life, I would 100% of the time pick a large RWD sedan w/ studded snows over an AWD SUV or 4x4 truck running all seasons, and I did just that when my DD was a G8 GT w/ a stall/cam/headers - ran studded snows for 6 winters going up to VT ski country every other weekend.

Whenever I hear truck guys contemplating purchasing them, aside from saying what I just did above, is offer the following analogy. I have a Z06 vette - on the opposite end of the spectrum, think about how much better a max performance summer only tire would perform on that car on a road course over "all seasons"? Now imagine max performance summers vs. R compound Nitto's or Michelin Pilot cups? At the drag strip, how much better of a time could you put down running Micky Thompson DR's over "all seasons"?

Finally, while imaging just how much better the more narrowly focused racing type tires would perform over "all seasons" (& how ridiculous it would be for someone to show up to the drag strip on "all seasons") & consider that those analogies all concerned different tire types performing against each other in DRY CONDITIONS ON A PREPPED SURFACE

Now think about how much better a tire designed specifically for sub zero temps, slush/snow/ice + having damn metal studs in 'em would do vs. an all terrain or all season type on crappy ass public hwys pock marked pavement in the worst winter driving conditions.

If you think an all season or all terrain would be even comparable to true snow tires I got a bridge in Brooklyn for ya!

FWIW - even BFG K02's are not "good in the snow" relative to snow tires, they're awful. In comparison to the average AT tire? Definitely at the top of the heap. Keep in mind 1 of the biggest things a snow tire brings to the table over an AT (since sipes & tread patterns on AT tires can translate well to snow conditions many times) is the rubber compound used. Snows are MUCH MUCH more supple/soft in sub zero conditions, thus allowing them to have better grip in dry or wet conditions & allow the sipes/tread to do their job. Other all season tires have much harder rubber that, depending on the temp, may as well be solid rocks regardless of the tread pattern since the rubber has no give.

That was a log post argueing a point that nobody is talking about.

Also nobody wants to buy two seperate sets of wheels and switch them on and off every winter.

I just sold my house in VT, never felt the need for snow tires. All I really cared about is getting to my destination regardless of conditions, basically the ability to not get stuck. And our trucks with all-seasons will do that.