The Peckish Synapse

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, OnTheReel said:

I don’t turn the key on my truck unless I’m running 30 miles. Wear metals were atrocious short tripping. Some motors handle it better than others so choose accordingly. Big V8s ain’t ideal. Especially not with GDI. Diesels should be out too. Emissions systems can’t handle it.
 

My V6 Jeep makes out just fine on the short trips however. Is it still wearing faster than if it was strictly a highway vehicle, yes. But we do the best we can.

 

I'm considering block heater. Not practical in the pickup as it has a minimum low temperature where it will even turn on without coding the EUC but the Mitsubishi has a place cast into the block for one. 

 

We have what we 'know'. What were are accustom to. That is if we drive a certain way and sample we get used to seeing a certain pattern of wear. We relate that to being "normal' and it is for that set of conditions. But how low can it go with attention to the broader view of operations?  

 

This tiny motor, big boost thing going on is hammering the "LOAD" part of the equation. In those papers I gave numbers for there is a graph that shows that there is considerable wear difference between low load down the road BMEP and WOT or sustained 4K operations under same, as in towing. There is absolutely a trade made between wear and thermal efficiency and the consumer is not winning that trade. 

[Grumpy Bear]

If a person judges a powertrain as good if it is still moving then Dizzy at 300K then one would say whatever I've done was a success and no need to do better. But the truth is this motor is junk and has been junk since before 100K if success is judged by oil consumption and usable power and 'trust' $$$$ spent keeping it no better than 'functional'. Both ways are but 10% to 30% of an OTR's MINIMUM expected life span. Making it sound as if they are the same is dishonest. 

 

Arguments otherwise are not arguments of the physical facts but rather arguments of personal viewpoints and limits of personally  acceptable standards. There isn't a method I know of that will allow comparing the two. 

 

If I require flawless paint that means nothing is set on the car period. If you are good with using your hood as a workbench then we can't argue one method is better than the other. And yet, we are both happy with the result.  

 

Pepper is now 2.4X further down the road than Dizzy's failure point. Failure being the milage she started to use an unacceptable amount of oil. I've spent nothing on Pepper in non-routine motor maintenance. I've spent thousands on Dizzy. I'd drive Pepper to wherever the mood strikes me and Dizzy to under a 50 miles one way. But hey, that's my standard.   

Edited October 21, 2025 by Grumpy Bear

[Atlas]

Short-tripping an EV doesn't lead to excessive wear metals nor does it degrade the life of engine lubricants. 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

 

Another Wear Study

 

 

There is little difference in wear absolute between 170/180 F and 212 F. There is zero difference in heat up times between the two thermostats to 170/180 F. Colder thermostats do not significantly increase wear. They do lower oil oxidation rates. 

 

What is the viscosity of an SAE 0W20 at 40 C/104F? And an SAE 5W40? Contemplate the difference in wear between that caused by running at 100F vs the few centistokes difference in viscosity at 212 F or a single centipoise at 150 F (ring area) and tell me with a straight face running a 5W40 increases bore or bearing wear based on it's viscosity. 

 

Corrosive wear at 60 F isn't a function of viscosity.  https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/info-hub/4-ways-engine-wear-tear-occurs.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

tell me with a straight face running a 5W40 increases bore or bearing wear based on it's viscosity. 

Are you making up a counter argument? No one has ever said running that causes more wear. It’s just not the viscosity some engines call for. 
You do a fine job arguing with yourself. Meds, remember the meds Marty. 

[Atlas]

22 minutes ago, customboss said:

Are you making up a counter argument? No one has ever said running that causes more wear. It’s just not the viscosity some engines call for. 
You do a fine job arguing with yourself. Meds, remember the meds Marty. 

 

To his point, when talking about oil viscosity on the internet, some people will say "use what the manufacturer recommends." And for the low viscosity recommendations, like 0w8, 0w16, etc, some people will defend that with "modern engines with microscopic tolerances/clearances need the thinner oil, which is why manufacturers recommend low viscosity oils. Thicker oils can cause more wear!"

 

In the latest SNAFU from GM with a bunch of 6.2's failing, they went from recommending 0w20 to 0w40 in the affected engines. That's just one data point that says, for that engine, using a low viscosity oil may not be for reasons of precision machining and clearances between parts.

[customboss]

2 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

To his point, when talking about oil viscosity on the internet, some people will say "use what the manufacturer recommends." And for the low viscosity recommendations, like 0w8, 0w16, etc, some people will defend that with "modern engines with microscopic tolerances/clearances need the thinner oil, which is why manufacturers recommend low viscosity oils. Thicker oils can cause more wear!"

 

In the latest SNAFU from GM with a bunch of 6.2's failing, they went from recommending 0w20 to 0w40 in the affected engines. That's just one data point that says, for that engine, using a low viscosity oil may not be for reasons of precision machining and clearances between parts.

The crankshaft’s were defective. The 0w-40 is a false bandaid that allows GM to show directional progress to courts and stave off lawsuits. Make ignorant on internet feel better, maybe.  Period. Doesn’t stop a failure on an effectively machined engine or crankshaft.  

[Atlas]

2 minutes ago, customboss said:

The crankshaft’s were defective. The 0w-40 is a false bandaid that allows GM to show directional progress to courts and stave off lawsuits. Make ignorant on internet feel better, maybe.  Period. Doesn’t stop a failure on an effectively machined engine or crankshaft.  

 

Agreed. But 0w40 may be better suited in that engine to slow wear overall versus 0w20. Not that it would have saved the engine from failure because of a defective crankshaft, but it could slow wear overall.

 

When GM announced the change in recommended oil viscosity, Mobil 1 ESP 0w40 and 0w40 Supercar were virtually impossible to either a) find in stock, b) buy at a reasonable price for almost 2 months.

[KARNUT]

4 minutes ago, customboss said:

The crankshaft’s were defective. The 0w-40 is a false bandaid that allows GM to show directional progress to courts and stave off lawsuits. Make ignorant on internet feel better, maybe.  Period. Doesn’t stop a failure on an effectively machined engine or crankshaft.  

The big three have a history of this. You just have to go on YouTube and check out vehicles of the late 70s on. It doesn’t seem to change. They’re responsible of popularity of Honda, Toyota. Boring but reliable vehicles. The big three built vehicles that were seriously unsafe and unreliable. They all (the big three) have periods of genius. Then they screw it up. 

[customboss]

59 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

The big three have a history of this. You just have to go on YouTube and check out vehicles of the late 70s on. It doesn’t seem to change. They’re responsible of popularity of Honda, Toyota. Boring but reliable vehicles. The big three built vehicles that were seriously unsafe and unreliable. They all (the big three) have periods of genius. Then they screw it up. 

Usually their suppliers screw up. Outsourcing saves $$$$ 

[KARNUT]

32 minutes ago, customboss said:

Usually their suppliers screw up. Outsourcing saves $$$$ 

That’s not it. They know about a problem. Do a cost analysis on whether to fix a problem or chance litigation then go with whatever is cheapest. Most of the time they go with litigation. Sometimes discovery sinks them. The Pinto for example. Discovery on that one was brutal. Let them burn. They went with litigation. The 6.3 disaster. Heavy weight oil, sure. 

[Atlas]

59 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

That’s not it. They know about a problem. Do a cost analysis on whether to fix a problem or chance litigation then go with whatever is cheapest. Most of the time they go with litigation. Sometimes discovery sinks them. The Pinto for example. Discovery on that one was brutal. Let them burn. They went with litigation. The 6.3 disaster. Heavy weight oil, sure. 

 

Every automaker makes those kinds of decisions. Toyota and Honda and Kia and VW and Isuzu, and, and, and have all had their major blunders throughout time. I'm not here to defend any one of them, just to say they all do it, because that's what capitalism demands.

[KARNUT]

11 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

Every automaker makes those kinds of decisions. Toyota and Honda and Kia and VW and Isuzu, and, and, and have all had their major blunders throughout time. I'm not here to defend any one of them, just to say they all do it, because that's what capitalism demands.

Toyota had a problem with their new V-6 engine. They fixed the problem promptly. Just a month ago I got a letter from Honda extending the warranty on my Odyssey to 160K miles. Some engines use oil. It didn’t say they were failing. Just using oil. Mine doesn’t. Hyundai had a problem with some 4Cylinder engines. I asked about it at the dealership. It didn’t affect me, I was curious. They had a few in stock for warranty replacements. Word gets around. 

[Atlas]

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Toyota had a problem with their new V-6 engine. They fixed the problem promptly. Just a month ago I got a letter from Honda extending the warranty on my Odyssey to 160K miles. Some engines use oil. It didn’t say they were failing. Just using oil. Mine doesn’t. Hyundai had a problem with some 4Cylinder engines. I asked about it at the dealership. It didn’t affect me, I was curious. They had a few in stock for warranty replacements. Word gets around. 

 

Perhaps you forgot about the "unintended acceleration" recall from Toyota that resulted in a $1.2 Billion deferred prosecution agreement for concealing safety issues.

 

Maybe you also forgot about Hyundai's fire issues and how they got the hammer after a whistleblower came forward with proof that Hyundai knew about the issues from 2011-2023 but didn't do much about it until a class action suit. Or the fact that for a long time they were the most stolen car ever because of security vulnerabilities which the manufacturer refused to address until...the hammer came down.

 

Honda? Vast numbers of transmission recalls, fuel pump recalls, fire issues with hybrids, to name a few. But don't forget the $100 Million settlement over what Honda knew about Takata airbag defects and failed to recall its vehicles. Many other automakers started their recall as a result of the investigations into Honda and what they were concealing.

[KARNUT]

44 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

Perhaps you forgot about the "unintended acceleration" recall from Toyota that resulted in a $1.2 Billion deferred prosecution agreement for concealing safety issues.

 

Maybe you also forgot about Hyundai's fire issues and how they got the hammer after a whistleblower came forward with proof that Hyundai knew about the issues from 2011-2023 but didn't do much about it until a class action suit. Or the fact that for a long time they were the most stolen car ever because of security vulnerabilities which the manufacturer refused to address until...the hammer came down.

 

Honda? Vast numbers of transmission recalls, fuel pump recalls, fire issues with hybrids, to name a few. But don't forget the $100 Million settlement over what Honda knew about Takata airbag defects and failed to recall its vehicles. Many other automakers started their recall as a result of the investigations into Honda and what they were concealing.

I saw a test about the Toyota issue. Something about the mat catching the pedal if it’s wadded up. The brake could easily overpower the engine. Heard nothing about Hyundai firers I’ve had 4 different models, still have two. The air bag problems were across several brands. It seems everyone has transmission issues one time or another. Defects happen. I get a weekly magazine that keeps informed of the latest. They have a weekly Saturday show too. The CarPro radio show. Check it out. You can get it on IHeart.