Oil catch can

Grumpy Bear · December 10, 2021

3 hours ago, M1ck3y said:

?... That was meant to be a compliment

What you did was avoid my request to spell out what it was we were agreeing to. You replied, yes, and avoided the question. You seem quite the poly-tish-n.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

Transient · December 10, 2021

9 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Edited December 10, 2021 by Transient

Happy man · December 12, 2021

Regardless of who is right or wrong I just put a UPR catch can on my new '21 Denali 5.3L while I am spending coins on a new ride. It was a plug n play model and has a drain valve on the bottom of the can for easy drains. I also installed a controversial FilterMag on my oil filter to catch any ferrous metal sludge the filter is unable filter out. I can't see what the harm is in installing these two items. From what I have researched they make good sense to me to have and are easy to install/remove. The best part is they make me feel good and involved having installed them myself. The main reason I installed the catch can was because I drive short distances and don't keep the truck running long enough to evaporate any condensation collected. The truck is also not daily driven.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Happy man

M1ck3y · December 13, 2021

4 hours ago, Happy man said:

Regardless of who is right or wrong I just put a UPR catch can on my new '21 Denali 5.3L while I am spending coins on a new ride. It was a plug n play model and has a drain valve on the bottom of the can for easy drains. I also installed a controversial FilterMag on my oil filter to catch any ferrous metal sludge the filter is unable filter out. I can't see what the harm is in installing these two items. From what I have researched they make good sense to me to have and are easy to install/remove. The best part is they make me feel good and involved having installed them myself. The main reason I installed the catch can was because I drive short distances and don't keep the truck running long enough to evaporate any condensation collected. The truck is also not daily driven.

Thats great! I believe people should modify whatever they like. I actually have a catch can I haven't installed because I don't have the right mounting bracket. But I also have a k2 and winter here like's to make the truck puke up oil for some reason.

I just want to point out that any condensation you collect in the can isn't from the crankcase. The can itself forms condensation on the inside and heat cycles exasperate the effect. This would happen with most any metal container you put under the hood of a vehicle.

Grumpy Bear · December 13, 2021

8 minutes ago, M1ck3y said:

I just want to point out that any condensation you collect in the can isn't from the crankcase. The can itself forms condensation on the inside and heat cycles exasperate the effect. This would happen with most any metal container you put under the hood of a vehicle.

Experiment for you Mickey. Put a catch can under the hood, hoses hanging, and lets us know how much moisture you trap. Take as much time as you like.

M1ck3y · December 13, 2021

Just now, Grumpy Bear said:

Experiment for you Mickey. Put a catch can under the hood, hoses hanging, and lets us know how much moisture you trap. Take as much time as you like.

Nope

Grumpy Bear · December 13, 2021

1 minute ago, M1ck3y said:

Nope

:crackup:

M1ck3y · December 13, 2021

28 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Ah... I see what your pointing at. I apologize, that was poorly written.

Doesn't change the fact that the condensation us not likely from the crankcase though.

Edited December 13, 2021 by M1ck3y

Happy man · December 13, 2021

11 minutes ago, M1ck3y said:

Thats great! I believe people should modify whatever they like. I actually have a catch can I haven't installed because I don't have the right mounting bracket. But I also have a k2 and winter here like's to make the truck puke up oil for some reason.

I just want to point out that any condensation you collect in the can isn't from the crankcase. The can itself forms condensation on the inside and heat cycles exasperate the effect. This would happen with most any metal container you put under the hood of a vehicle.

That makes sense to me. Is this a bad thing for the truck? I believe there is also condensation from the cold engine being generated during warm up. I am hoping the oil vapors are also collected to prevent long-term carbon buildup on the valves. I saw a bunch of oil on the OEM hose connector on the valve cover end when installing this can. I'll pull this can quick if someone makes an argument that makes more sense than those that argue for the necessity of a catch can. I will be checking the "clean side" of the can after some runtime to see if it is clean. It better be or else...

I will add that this particular catch can installs on the passenger side of the truck. So, the hoses are of substantial length. I am thinking this will give the oil vapors or water vapors (if any) time to return to an oil or water type consistency. I am thinking this will aid the filter to better filter the oil or water from the air. Also, by design the catch can has a long can and it would be quite hard for any liquids to exit back out of the can. I am not an expert but am all ears to common sense and best practices. I always keep an open mind as well. Thank you for your input!

Grumpy Bear · December 13, 2021

2 hours ago, Happy man said:

I'll pull this can quick if someone makes an argument that makes more sense than those that argue for the necessity of a catch can.

On 12/9/2021 at 4:54 PM, customboss said:

Absolutely! What people are thinking is oil condensate is fuels dilution. Use a better oil, tune your engine up. Generally only need for blow-by capture or catch cans are racing entities who have highly modified crankcase pressures, flows, piston speeds, low tension rings etc.

Believe it or not I used to analyze what most think is oil and majority was fuels residuals and associated condensation attracted to that fuel. The oil and carbon will color what is seen in a catch can but its minority oil tested across many OEM's for competitive comparison.

1.) Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry. It' how @customboss knows the contents of the can and it is the minority oil tested across many OEM's for competitive comparison. It's almost entirely carbon colored water and the lightest ends of gasoline. He didn't work in a lab He owned it An actual tribologist.

2.) Lightest component of a conventional motor is is C13 with a boiling point of 455 F. It's actually C18 in attempt with a BP of over 600 F but the cut is never pure. The ASTM D86 IBP of gasoline is roughly 75 F. The vapor in the crankcase can not be higher than the bulk temperature of the bulk oil temperature which is rarely over 250 F. You do the math. I was an actual refiner.

3.) Complete combustion of gasoline nets only water and CO2. Combustion is never perfect so the ring blow by gasses are primarily water and gasoline.

4.) The heaviest ends of gasoline that make past the rings and are to heavy to be a vapor at 250 F remain in solution in the oil thus your UOA report will show it as a percentage of the motor oil bringing us full circle to the GSMS test in point #1.

5.) What do you think freezes in the catch can? THINK...freezing point of gasoline? Freezing point of motor oil. Freezing point of water? If you have residual water in the oil... a UAO will show you do....then common sense tells you that the majority of liquid can not be fluids with higher boiling points? What has a lower boiling point than water? Gasoline and alcohols.

6.) IF you actually have large amounts of oil in the can then you have MAJOR motor issues that need addressing, not band-aiding. Send the can contents to a qualified lab (UOA) and ASK someone that isn't guessing in a forum.

7.) Explain large amounts of oil in a catch can with no oil consumption?

When would you like me to stop?

Transient · December 13, 2021

6 hours ago, Happy man said:

That makes sense to me. Is this a bad thing for the truck? I believe there is also condensation from the cold engine being generated during warm up. I am hoping the oil vapors are also collected to prevent long-term carbon buildup on the valves. I saw a bunch of oil on the OEM hose connector on the valve cover end when installing this can. I'll pull this can quick if someone makes an argument that makes more sense than those that argue for the necessity of a catch can. I will be checking the "clean side" of the can after some runtime to see if it is clean. It better be or else...

I will add that this particular catch can installs on the passenger side of the truck. So, the hoses are of substantial length. I am thinking this will give the oil vapors or water vapors (if any) time to return to an oil or water type consistency. I am thinking this will aid the filter to better filter the oil or water from the air. Also, by design the catch can has a long can and it would be quite hard for any liquids to exit back out of the can. I am not an expert but am all ears to common sense and best practices. I always keep an open mind as well. Thank you for your input!

I'm a simple man with no knowledge on this subject. I'm just sitting by watching what people are saying. Here's what I think. The catch can is made of metal. When it heats and cools condensation is created. The can is connected to the engine via air hoses. Those houses might be able to carry the condensation to the engine. Could it be enough to hydrolock the engine? I don't know, nor do I want to be the person that finds out. I'd like to see what Mickey thinks.

M1ck3y · December 13, 2021

7 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

1.) Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry. It' how @customboss knows the contents of the can and it is the minority oil tested across many OEM's for competitive comparison. It's almost entirely carbon colored water and the lightest ends of gasoline. He didn't work in a lab He owned it An actual tribologist.

2.) Lightest component of a conventional motor is is C13 with a boiling point of 455 F. It's actually C18 in attempt with a BP of over 600 F but the cut is never pure. The ASTM D86 IBP of gasoline is roughly 75 F. The vapor in the crankcase can not be higher than the bulk temperature of the bulk oil temperature which is rarely over 250 F. You do the math. I was an actual refiner.

3.) Complete combustion of gasoline nets only water and CO2. Combustion is never perfect so the ring blow by gasses are primarily water and gasoline.

4.) The heaviest ends of gasoline that make past the rings and are to heavy to be a vapor at 250 F remain in solution in the oil thus your UOA report will show it as a percentage of the motor oil bringing us full circle to the GSMS test in point #1.

5.) What do you think freezes in the catch can? THINK...freezing point of gasoline? Freezing point of motor oil. Freezing point of water? If you have residual water in the oil... a UAO will show you do....then common sense tells you that the majority of liquid can not be fluids with higher boiling points? What has a lower boiling point than water? Gasoline and alcohols.

6.) IF you actually have large amounts of oil in the can then you have MAJOR motor issues that need addressing, not band-aiding. Send the can contents to a qualified lab (UOA) and ASK someone that isn't guessing in a forum.

7.) Explain large amounts of oil in a catch can with no oil consumption?

When would you like me to stop?

I don't think we're on the same page. I agree with every single statement you made.

I was merely stating that the can itself, can create moisture due to temperature variations from heating and cooling.

When connected to the pcv system, because that's what drives the temperature difference.

How did you get to be so old without anyone popping that massive head on your shoulders? It would really do you some good.

Edited December 13, 2021 by M1ck3y

KARNUT · December 13, 2021

28 minutes ago, M1ck3y said:

I don't think we're on the same page. I agree with every single statement you made.

I was merely stating that the can itself, can create moisture due to temperature variations from heating and cooling.

When connected to the pcv system, because that's what drives the temperature difference.

How did you get to be so old without anyone popping that massive head on your shoulders? It would really do you some good.

He’s what you call a key board warrior. He’s blocked me, even though I agree with him most times. I understood what you were talking about condensation. In Texas it effects everything. You can start your vehicle in the morning and think you’re head gasket is blown. I have a dehumidifier in the garage where my wife’s Acura is. I’m not as (smart) as grumpy I got you.

Grumpy Bear · December 13, 2021

16 minutes ago, M1ck3y said:

I don't think we're on the same page. I agree with every single statement you made.

I was merely stating that the can itself, can create moisture due to temperature variations from heating and cooling.

When connected to the pcv system, because that's what drives the temperature difference.

How did you get to be so old without anyone popping that massive head on your shoulders? It would really do you some good.

10 hours ago, M1ck3y said:

Doesn't change the fact that the condensation us (does?) not likely (come?) from the crankcase though.

All the moisture comes from the crankcase. The can does not CREATE moisture.

But yes, moisture is condensed in the can due to the temperature being LOWER than the condensation temperature of water and light gas cuts.

And now you know why I highlight and bold face. You may not make it to a ripe old age if you don't learn to COMMUNITCATE a thought clearly. You state that the moisture DOES NOT come from the crankcase and is CREATED in the can. (Those are your words in these quotes...right?)

Create can mean 'to cause something to come into existence" such as divorce creates problems for children but the context of your replies states clearly that moisture does not come from the crankcase; indicating the first meaning of creation, to BRING something into existence....(Oxford Languages) i.e. God created heavens and earth Gen 1:1.

Context is the means one uses to decide which of several meanings apply when a word is used.

Slow down....take a deep breath....put the need to dress down an old man down a few degrees of importance...think it through......maybe you will realize how patient I am being. Your welcome. :rolleyes: