Jump to content

Lifter noise and oil pump replacement


Recommended Posts

I'm a New Guy, I have a 06 Avalanche 4X4 with the 5.3 flex engine. I got lifter noise, did all the cleaning tricks got no joy.

Now I'm ready to replace the pick up tube O ring and while there the oil pump and timing chain and sprockets.

Does anyone here have any experience with this? I have a Haynes book; I got it up on stands and I removed the L/H tire today.

Tomorrow it's the stone shield under the oil pan, brake caliper, rotor, and hub I hope. I have to pull the inner axle and axle tube,

some miscellaneous stuff under the engine, the radiator, water pump. I have the parts, new timing gear cover, oil pick up tube

w/new o rings, timing chain set, will get a new water pump too.

If any want to help you need to live in the South Puget Sound area in S. Kitsap County!

I'm Disabled Vet getting older and it's hard for me to do this work anymore.

I used to be a Vehicle Maintenance mechanic in the USAF so I know what I'm doing, but things ain't what they used to be.

 

Edited by dna9656
add more
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you done any diagnosis on this ?

 

Have you checked your coolant level to make sure it's not going into the engine through the heads?

 

Is it a constant tick? Only when warm? Whats your oil pressure reading when cold / when hot?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/6/2019 at 8:52 PM, CarbonZ28 said:

Have you done any diagnosis on this ?

 

Have you checked your coolant level to make sure it's not going into the engine through the heads?

 

Is it a constant tick? Only when warm? Whats your oil pressure reading when cold / when hot?

 

After doing the BG (Bearing and Gear) engine flush I still had the ticking, so I did the transmission fluid in the vacuum hose that connects the valve cover (PVC)  still ticks; I did the trans fluid in the motor oil thing too, still ticks. I replaced the valve cover on the left side of the engine due to the PVC issue and while in there I located  (I thought) the rocker(s) that was ticking, blew a hot spray cleaner through the push rod, installed a Melling rocker arm on both valves (#1 cylinder) and now the ticking is worse. The ticking was intermittent (meaning it ticked when warmed up and didn't tick when warmed up) but always after the engine warmed up (of course, the oil is thinner because it's hot so I put 10W 40 in it and it still ticks) also, I read about guys finding needle bearings when draining the oil, they had to come from the rocker arms! I figured the needle bearings would roll around inside the race and when the part that was missing the needles was at the top/ bottom of the lifter that was when the ticking was heard. You can hear it at idle or on the freeway. I did a compression test, all over 200 PSI; not too bad for a motor with 170K miles on it. I figure the O ring on the pick up tube is leaking making the oil pump cavitate and not getting enough oil to the lifters. This O ring is a known weakness. So I figured to replace the O ring, oil pick up tube, timing chain set and cover, put a Melling high volume oil pump in there too. Also I'm told to replace the heater hoses while the radiator is removed. I am going to revisit the rocker issue and double check that they are properly installed before I go any further. Right now I have it on stands and the right tire is removed. Coolant is fine, no white spark plugs, no brown mush in the oil filler tube cap. Oil pressure is 40 when cold over 30 hot. Ticks only when warm. It's more like a CLACK than a TICK.

Edited by dna9656
punctuation
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the oil pump o-ring is your issue. I worked a t a dealership for 15 years and just recently switched to a performance shop. I had trucks coming in all of the time with lifter / cam / head issues. Not saying the pump o-ring is not the cause, but i don't think so in your case. 

 

Most often I found the right cylinder head had the leakage first. You will find a "706" at the edge of the cylinder head. Those are the main problem heads. On the underside of your oil cap, see if there is any milky color on it. Final check would be to pull the valve cover and look for clean spots near the head bolts. If found, you are getting coolant into your oil from that area. That flush may have done away with you seeing any of this. The coolant in through the head is a super common issue. So is a failed lifter just because it wants to and lastly, the roller on a lifter could be chunked up and you will have camshaft damage at that point as well.

 

Now, the reason i asked about oil pressure cold vs hot was to see if possibly you have a cam bearing issue but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

You said you replaced the 2 lifters for #1 cylinder? So, you pulled the one head off and replaced just the 2 lifters?

 

Rocker arm trunion failures are rare on your 5.3. That can be seen with a basic visual with the valve covers removed. The rocker will be a little crooked looking and then when you look closer, you will see that it's missing the cap on the side. Again, easy visual. 

 

Not trying to tell you that you are doing anything wrong, i mean preventative maintenance with a new oil pump is not a bad idea anyway, but just trying to help you pinpoint a "fix" for your issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are doing the pickup tube, then the pan will be off and you will be able to see any type of debris, so that would be a plus. Also, the high volume pump could be beneficial if the lifters are just weak as it will keep a higher supply of oil through them.

 

Just make sure there's no coolant in there because that could end up wiping out bearings and turn a somewhat minor issue into a huge one. 

Edited by CarbonZ28
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your response! NOTE my bad; I replaced the 2 ROCKERS, NOT the lifters. Had I gone in to replace the lifers I would have replaced all of them and the cam and bearings. That's some thing I have never done.

I had the engine running while the valve cover was off; I'm thinking if a roller on the bottom of a lifter were "chunked up" as you say the rocker action would have appeared uneven I didn't notice anything like that, all seemed to be operating in a smooth, rhythmic manner.

So what is the fix for a head that leaks coolant? Is it a gasket issue or getting the head welded or is it replaced?

I can see the needle bearings inside the removed rocker, tomorrow I will post pictures of them.

The thing about a high volume oil pump that bugs me is that the oil is STILL going through the same passages (their size didn't change so how can they carry more oil at the same pressure?) I get it if the oil doesn't FILL the galleys with the standard volume pump, then the High Vol. pump would make sense to me. I know high volume oil pumps have been used for ages...

I will check the coolant issue out tomorrow after work.

If I can avoid tearing into the engine that would be great! I'll sell the parts  on C/List or on line, store them till I really do need them so I'm going to revisit the rockers and be double sure they are correct, check the head bolts under the cover, look for that number you mentioned, look for goo under the oil cap, and check the spark plugs.

I appreciate your input, keep it coming!

Edited by dna9656
Correct the post
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, txab said:

Thank you very much! very informative! So Is Castec some over seas cheapie MFR or what? Crap castings and they are not liable? I was hoping to see a sealing procedure like JB Weld or something Bellzona maybe; but you'd never get the oil out of the casting at home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, CarbonZ28 said:

If you are doing the pickup tube, then the pan will be off and you will be able to see any type of debris, so that would be a plus. Also, the high volume pump could be beneficial if the lifters are just weak as it will keep a higher supply of oil through them.

 

Just make sure there's no coolant in there because that could end up wiping out bearings and turn a somewhat minor issue into a huge one. 

No pictures today, the Chrysler's alternator gave up the ghost today, it started Sunday but I wanted to be sure and I became so, stopped at the Auto Zone to get the part and the car would not start for the testing! I got home and (as you prolly know) the dang drive belt is the worse thing about the whole job! It's a Sebring with a 3.5 V-6 in it. VERY crowded!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/6/2019 at 9:44 PM, CarbonZ28 said:

I don't think the oil pump o-ring is your issue. I worked a t a dealership for 15 years and just recently switched to a performance shop. I had trucks coming in all of the time with lifter / cam / head issues. Not saying the pump o-ring is not the cause, but i don't think so in your case. 

 

Most often I found the right cylinder head had the leakage first. You will find a "706" at the edge of the cylinder head. Those are the main problem heads. On the underside of your oil cap, see if there is any milky color on it. Final check would be to pull the valve cover and look for clean spots near the head bolts. If found, you are getting coolant into your oil from that area. That flush may have done away with you seeing any of this. The coolant in through the head is a super common issue. So is a failed lifter just because it wants to and lastly, the roller on a lifter could be chunked up and you will have camshaft damage at that point as well.

 

Now, the reason i asked about oil pressure cold vs hot was to see if possibly you have a cam bearing issue but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

You said you replaced the 2 lifters for #1 cylinder? So, you pulled the one head off and replaced just the 2 lifters?

 

Rocker arm trunion failures are rare on your 5.3. That can be seen with a basic visual with the valve covers removed. The rocker will be a little crooked looking and then when you look closer, you will see that it's missing the cap on the side. Again, easy visual. 

 

Not trying to tell you that you are doing anything wrong, i mean preventative maintenance with a new oil pump is not a bad idea anyway, but just trying to help you pinpoint a "fix" for your issue.

OK I got the dreaded "706" on the right head. What I don't have is creamy whitish sh_t under the oil filler cap, never did. I forgot to mention what I found under the valve  (the one that has to be changed when the engine starts smokin'?) cover on the left side off; Nuthin"! no creamy whitish crap there either. I can't remember adding any coolant to it, it's been just a smidge under the joint of the overflow tank since i got it. Now the Chrysler needs coolant once a month but it has a leak but it's so small that the $700.00 the man wants to fix it is too much to pay. You can buy a lot of coolant for $700.00

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, dna9656 said:

OK I got the dreaded "706" on the right head. What I don't have is creamy whitish sh_t under the oil filler cap, never did. I forgot to mention what I found under the valve  (the one that has to be changed when the engine starts smokin'?) cover on the left side off; Nuthin"! no creamy whitish crap there either. I can't remember adding any coolant to it, it's been just a smidge under the joint of the overflow tank since i got it. Now the Chrysler needs coolant once a month but it has a leak but it's so small that the $700.00 the man wants to fix it is too much to pay. You can buy a lot of coolant for $700.00

You won't always see the milkyness on the filler neck. Your absolute best way of checking is to pull the valve cover. If you were about to pull the pan and front cover for the pump and o-ring, just pulling the valve covers should be no concern. Another bonus is you can use the handle end of a hammer and push on the rockers one by one on the side of the pushrod and see if it goes down. This would mean you have a weak lifter. If you are bold enough, you can then run the engine with the valve covers off (it's not difficult, just plug in the coil pack connector and secure the coil bracket up a little bit with a bungy cord) and with the engine running you can push on the rocker arm one by one and see if you can locate the ticking lifter. It will get quiet when you put pressure on it. It's a small task to get it checked out. a small amount of coolant could cause your issue as well as what has been mentioned in previous posts. 

 

Just throwing out my opinion, not telling you what to do, just tossing out some ideas to pinpoint the root cause of your noise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took a closer look at the rockers I removed. One has a slop in the trunion, I can move it (the part the stud goes through) with my fingers; the other seems tight but, as you know tight with your fingers isn't tight under load. Are all the re-manufactured heads available been checked out for porosity? None of the sites I have been to mention it, they say the have been vacuumed checked but they have been saying that for years on all heads, when they say they did a vacuum test aren't they talking about valve sealing? I had always assumed so. I have heard of porous transmission cases but not heads. Seems to me that this isn't an issue of wear ; it's an issue of poor quality that the manufacture should correct. I get that it would be HUGELY expensive to pay some one the labor and parts costs (those costs would far exceed the cost of the parts) so they just "stiff" the public for it. I seem to remember the bankruptcy court relieved GM of all warranty claims for certain year model vehicles. So what happened to those that bought extended warranty(s) (not third parties) from GM?  Castec sure has a crappy QA department.

Have stopped the oil pan project and am proceeding as you have recommended. I am going to pull the covers off and inspect. its been a good long time since i did the motor flushing, I'm pretty sure that if i have water leaking through the heads it'll be evident.

My spark plug wires (after market; Beldon) seem a little short to hook them up with the coil pack tied up; I think i tried that before but the wires were too short. Bungy cord I got! 

Will try again.

Pushing on the side of the rocker, is that with the engine running or stopped?

If it's a "small amount" of coolant is it something that can be lived with of is it defiantly going to destroy the engine?

I sure appreciate your help on this matter!

Edited by dna9656
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just because you have 706 heads, doesn't mean they are doomed to fail. I've got a set with over 200k on them with no issues. At work, we ran GMT800s into the ground with over 300k on them without a 706 failure. So it's the luck of the draw.

 

Since you driver side is clean, check the passenger side to be sure, but if you're not consuming coolant, I'd say your safe.

 

If you have a coolant leak into the oil, then yes damage can be done by ruining bearings etc......

 

https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/127919-castech-head-replacement-pics/

Edited by txab
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.