Which oil filter?

Grumpy Bear · January 15, 2021

1 hour ago, Gray Fox said:

1.) So I guess you are doing what I wasn’t going to do.

2.) So I guess you were telling me that I shouldn’t use a K&N filter.

3.) Maybe Delco will put a nut on their’s so they will come off.

1.) What is that?

2.) Nope I don't tell people what to do. I supply useful information. Do with it as you please.

3.) I have no issue removing the filter with a cup wrench. No one I know does.

PPK · January 15, 2021

This 5.3 is pretty new - 11,000 miles. Not much iron on the magnet. My other vehicle - JGC has a pentastar 3.6 and 3 or 4 times the shiny accusation of iron with 9000 miles on it with a similar magnetic drain plug.

i am thinking the design difference is in the chains. The v8 has one chain and the jeep has 6 i think. The jeep also has a lot of rollers in the valve train. Hardening is a big factor in how much iron ends up in the oil.. but so is the design.

I don’t really like the tiny filter on the 5.3 but GM might know what it is doing, too.

Grumpy Bear · January 15, 2021

A filter removes wear particles in a effort to minimize three body wear. It can not be eliminated as these particles are a result of two body wear that happens before filtration. Ergo these particles must be flushed from the source, to the pump pickup and onward. Let's just say the filter minimizes recycling them.

A filter removes the agglomerate of oil degradation which prevents thickening and restriction. Plugging things like lifter bleeds or servo passages and so on.

A filter protects smaller failures from becoming larger failures. Flaking of a cam lobe from taking out a rod bearing, i.e.

A mechanical units 'life time' is the measurement in some unit that matters to the designer before wear alters dimensions to the point they no longer function as the designer intended.

This last point (bold) depends on not just it's design but on it's care and on it's use. The engineer only has control over the first, influence over the second and hope, at best, for the last.

That same bold paragraph means that dimensions dictate things like oil pressure, thus point of supply volume, cooling and sealing. So for the engineer failure is the point of specified oil pressure or cylinder leak down or maximum temperatures.

For the end user that paragraph might mean when the compression is so low it will not start, the oil pressure takes out a major component or it boils oil or water dry.

Ergo the LEDGENDS are born. I ran a crap filter for 200K and it ran just fine.... :banghead: When in fact three of the eight cylinders are more than 20% different, it uses a quart in 300 miles, there' s a lifter tick and a rod knock but darn boys, it starts and makes it to work.

txab · January 15, 2021

Word of the day:

Agglomerate: collect or form into a mass or group

KARNUT · January 16, 2021

My first house in Texas had a well. In some areas we’d have a slight sand problem. I added a filter. I started with the most bad ass filter. It didn’t go a week clogged up. My dilemma was good filtration versus wear to appliances. The goal was decent duty cycle verses water starvation. In an engine a restricted filter would mean bypass. I imagine there is such thing as too much of a good thing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RWTJR · January 16, 2021

Why does GM recommend the ACDelco PF63E for our trucks over of the arguably better ACDelco UPF63R?

Any thoughts?

No expertise implied or expressed

Edited January 16, 2021 by RWTJR

Grumpy Bear · January 16, 2021

2 hours ago, RWTJR said:

Why does GM recommend the ACDelco PF63E for our trucks over of the arguably better ACDelco UPF63R?

Any thoughts?

No expertise implied or expressed

This is one of those times you have to ask what is meant by "Better" (and this always gets me in trouble).

Mechanical construction? Yep, hands down stronger in every way. Is it required? Not really for hauling/towing.

Filtering efficiency? :dunno: I can find no publish information on that specification. That said my gut says NO. Why? Because it is meant for service of a track day meaning flow takes priority over efficiency. That is but a guess and as a thought is but a guess I feel on solid ground. I would love to be proved in error with some data.

flyingfool · January 16, 2021

4 hours ago, RWTJR said:

Why does GM recommend the ACDelco PF63E for our trucks over of the arguably better ACDelco UPF63R?

Any thoughts?

No expertise implied or expressed

i tore apart a few AC delco cheapo $3 filters, and have to say the quality is plenty good for 5000 miles of easy daily driving . not recommended for high revving race motors. but daily truck is great

i would focus on giving the transmission more in terms support and clean fluids and a bypass filter change every 10k

Edited January 16, 2021 by flyingfool

Grumpy Bear · January 16, 2021

20 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

A mechanical units 'life time' is the measurement in some unit that matters to the designer before wear alters dimensions to the point they no longer function as the designer intended.

Wear is an inevitable outcome of use, (Tribology basics for linear bearings).

GM and others have recently started removing dipsticks from transmissions and calling them "Lubricated for Life" or "Lifetime Fluids". It a funny term without a specific definition but industry wide it means that the device will not require lubrication service over it's......wait for it......."useful service life".

Tucked away in your glovebox is the owners manual with a service schedule that will instruct you to have it's fluid exchanged at a dealer at 95K miles under normal driving or 45K under severe service conditions. Well there's a tattletail if ever one I saw.

All 2020 Chevrolet and GMC cars, vans, crossovers and light-duty pickup trucks come with our Powertrain Limited Warranty, which is 5 years/100,000 miles^†⁽²⁾ for customers^†⁽¹⁾ with a qualifying fleet account(s)^†⁽¹⁾, 5 years/60,000 miles^†⁽²⁾ for retail buyers and 5 years/100,000 miles^†⁽²⁾ for HD diesel pickups. (GMfleet)

And the last piece above indicates that the same vehicle will have a different warranty length and service schedule depending upon its.....USE....or service type. Which goes back to the first paragraph in this rant.

Wear is in greater part a function of USE!

To a lesser part functions of lubrication and filtration.

Useful service life for purposes of maintenance scheduling and warranty length is then determined by what the manufacture determines to be 'normal' and 'severe' use. Normal and severe is an indication of.......

Load and Speed

These numbers are not publicly available but they are a good deal higher than the majority of users will subject their machines to.

So that means the users that get 200K or 300K out of their machines have more to brag about in the way they USED the machine than the products they used to maintain it.

A sample calculation for a ball or roller bearing. Easiest one to get the noggin around. The L10 is the bearings 'designed service life'. P is the load and N is the speed. The lower those two numbers are the greater the length of service will be. Note the 'e'? That denotes than ANY reduction in load or speed in multiplied by a 'factor'..in the case of a ball for example, by a factor of 3. For a roller 3 to the 10th. For a sleeve bearing .....allot.

While you watch this concluding video ask yourself if it was the Schaeffer oil, the service schedule or the use that permitted this motor to go a million miles and maintain new like dimensions and cleanliness.

When Mobil did their million mile BMW on a roof top rolling road was it the oil or the use?

Edited January 16, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

flyingfool · January 17, 2021

holy smokes thats amaizing!!!!!!!!!!

Grumpy Bear · January 17, 2021

23 hours ago, flyingfool said:

holy smokes thats amaizing!!!!!!!!!!

Prisoner transport, NCY Taxi Cabs and roof top million mile motors all have something in common. Very low loads and very rarely are they ever subject to a short heat cycle.

People think a motor is up to heat when the thermostat opens. Not even close. The oil temperature must reach 175 F minimum and be held there for at least an hour. This time of year it might take 25 miles on the highway to just reach 175 F bulk oil temperature.

A real sludge maker to miss that mark repeatedly. Tis why short oil change intervals and really REALLY good oil filters are more important to the inner city commuter than the traveling salesman. Oxides of Nitrogen have a hard time getting into the oil if it's temperature is above 175 and an hour there is long enough even at that low temperature to drive H2) down under 100 ppm. If the two can be kept separate then sludge and corrosion products generated by nitric compounds are limited.

If you've ever had a thermostat fail open and found white foam in the filler cap or breathers you've observed the being of the end for the oil. Same thing can and will happen if the trip length is to short and the oil temperature to cool.

Oil companies pulling off these crazy long mileage claims under such ideal circumstances are playing on the ignorance of the public.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · January 27, 2021

I AM Legend!!

Note how nice this motor runs on the dyno then watch the tear down.

The USPS felt the OEM maintenance program was 'Good Enough"?

That the OEM choices of fluids and filters was Good Enough?

In a private setting such an owner is now convinced for all time that this 'way' is the:

"End All, Be All"

Take special note of the condition of the lifters and bearings in this motor.

Take note of the comments he makes about the cam.

Observe the timing chain.

Thing ran like a Swiss watch and quite as a mouse.

Had good compression pressure!!

Totally worn out.

This is exactly how people get convinced that the OEM filter and OEM oil changed at OEM OCI"s is the last word.

It did make it out of warranty!

And into civilian life.

Steve-2019 · January 27, 2021

18 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I AM Legend!!

In your own mind....

Grumpy Bear · January 27, 2021

15 minutes ago, Steve-2019 said:

In your own mind....

Didn't read the post and watch the video did ya?

Title isn't about me sport.

RWTJR · January 27, 2021

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

The USPS felt the OEM maintenance program was 'Good Enough"?

That the OEM choices of fluids and filters was Good Enough?

If the point you're attempting to make is that the engine in this video is in such poor shape because it was maintained per OEM guidelines and fluids, I have questions.

What leads you to believe the USPS uses the OEM maintenance program and OEM fluid and filters? Additionally, is the maintenance program used during civilian ownership of this vehicle known? How many years with the USPS, how many as a civilian jeep?

I don't find using a 40 to 50 year old vehicle with an unknown maintenance history to be a compelling example of the failure of OEM fluids and filters to protect.

JMHO

No expertise implied or expressed