An Oil Thread

[Spiney Norman]

So I've read that 20psi at idle, normal operating temp, is fairly normal. My '03 with the V6 makes that at idle and over 50psi (almost 60) at highway speed.

I'm running 10w40, truck has almost 116k miles. Anyone ever at a quart or two of 20W50 to thicken things up for summer? Or should I just keep running 10W40?

 

In other news I took the truck on a little road trip recently. A/C off, used the cruise control, kept my foot out of it and averaged 23.7mpg. I'm pleased.

[Grumpy Bear]

Curious why the 10W40? I know why I would/wouldn't but curious as your reason(s). 

[dsr611]

23 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Curious why the 10W40? I know why I would/wouldn't but curious as your reason(s). 

^^^This^^^

From the little book that vehicles usually have in the glove compartment...

[CamGTP]

I don't see a reason to make it thicker. It's not seeing crazy oil temps with how you use it. It's not a track car afterall.

[Black02Silverado]

No need at all.  I ran 5w-30 in my 2002 with the 5.3 with outside temps in the high 90's with no issues.  I even ran 0w-20 for over 5k miles to see if it made a difference and it didn't.  This was at 150k on the truck at that time. 

 

5w-30 is all you need.  10w-30 would be fine as well.  No need for 10w-40.

[txab]

^^^^ Agreed. At 116k, I'd still be running 5w-30 and nothing more than 10w-30. Your "thicker" oil isn't going to gain you more protection with today's oils

[Grumpy Bear]

Wear vs Economy

 

 

 

I always get nervous when I hear "with todays oils" as if what has been in the ground of millions of years by the magic of refining has somehow changed the physics of the wear/viscosity relationship. It has not. If anything it has made it more complicated. 

 

"Todays Oils" really has little to do with the oil and more to do with the chemistry of the additives in the oil and the point I'd like to make on this is additives, as a wear retardant, are the SECOND line of defense....not the first. The last stop before OMG there are parts failing. First is viscosity and that viscosity is AT the temperature of operation not some specification on a bottle label and with the oil in good shape. 

 

Not a plug for AMSOIL but a point made by them is an oil has to have the ability to "STAY IN GRADE". Viscosity grade. They are speaking about shear thinning here I believe. Something not all of them do very well. And something that is ALSO subject to the motors state of tune and it operating conditions. Something Cameron eluded to in his "Track Day" remark is that oil temperature even in water cooled motors varies and varies enough to REQUIRE a change in grade IF the conditions warrant. "Todays Oils" (meaning since the mid 1950's LOL) viscosity is controlled by polymers in most multi-grade oils.  Polymers that shear thin. Your only normal clue to how much is the HTHS some oils publish. 

 

Truth in this case is that 10W40 will not hurt the motor and will provide an incremental gain in wear control BUT will come with the penalty of the use of additional fuel. This based on the 'average' minimum SAE requirement for each grades HTHS viscosity. There are however 5 and 10W30 oils whose actual HTHS values are HIGHER than some 10W40's so there are no blanket statements to be made in this regard.  There are even 5W20's that will exceed the requirements for HTHS of most 5W30's. The SAE spec is a MINIMUM number to be called that grade but there is no upper limit and some oils take advantage of that little known and less well publicized fact.  

 

The OEM recommended grade is the "safe" grade for most uses in a motor with a stock functional good state of tune. Well? Is it? A good UOA is about the only way to know when the motor is otherwise seemingly running just fine. How about your driving style. Are you a guy who drives 85 mph in 110 F West Texas heat? 

[diyer2]

I do not understand how people think they know more than the manufacturer or engineers. I would only use thicker oil if I had an oil burning problem or severe conditions such as heavy towing in desert temps.

I did this with a Class A motor home, 454 engine stuffed under a cowl like the van motors are. Mountain driving always in Colorado and towing a boat. I think it called for 10W40. I used 20W50 Valvoline racing oil and a bigger 2 quart oil filter allowing and extra quart of oil. 3 K oil changes. 

This was in the early 90's using dino oil. I always let it warm up for 5 to 10 mins depending on temps. 

And of course the motor home was bought used, low miles though. 

[Grumpy Bear]

8 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

I do not understand how people think they know more than the manufacturer or engineers.

 

1.) By being an engineer and knowing we a human and imperfect creatures. 

2.) Understanding first hand engineers are NOT free to do what is right only what is profitable. 

3.) Being burnt by other engineers short sighted engineering. 

4.) Observation that MOST call backs are the result of poor engineering or poor executed engineering issues.

5.) I offered and explanation of considerations and reasons why someone may consider deviations from the manual therefor I don't know more than "the engineers'....I just know what I know....

 

I note that after making the comment quoted you recount your own deviation from the manual and list the same reasons I did for doing so.  So...........why the confusion? 

[diyer2]

I also thought I said to change from the recommended oil if there are severe conditions. I decided the motor home motor qualified for severe use. The OP changed oil weight for no reason.

 

[Scotty V]

OK, I checked my Oil Pressure at Idle... 26 PSI But, My 2.2 liter Idles at 950RPM. Onn the Highway at 70 mph, 60 PSI 

Tach at 3000 RPM. 

I use 5W30 which is on my Oil Fill Cap and in the Owners Manual. I also add STP Oil Treatment With ZDDP to Every Engine I have ever owned at every Oil Change.

I do Vary Oil Manufacturers though.

Scott

[Scotty V]

I just Checked My Mileage,  I am getting 26.9 with my 1995 2wd  2.2 liter 5 spd. Count me in for HAPPY!!!

[Spiney Norman]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm a boring old geezer, no speeding for me.

I'll reconsider my oil choice and shelve the 20/50 idea altogether.

[richard wysong]

if I remember correctly from my racing days racing oil lacks the additive that keeps contaminates in suspension as it's changed usually after the race so not a good choice for anything but racing

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, diyer2 said:

I also thought I said to change from the recommended oil if there are severe conditions. I decided the motor home motor qualified for severe use. The OP changed oil weight for no reason.

 

 

You did! Nothing wrong with your post.

Don't even think you were talking to me but the question was a good one so I responded.

 

 

Engineering at it's very best

 

We own a 2006 Civic which from the factory uses upper control members that are to short to provide an alignment that does not eat tires at a horrible rate. TSB attached.  Horrid negative camber. 

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2014/SB-10052495-1405.pdf

 

Note the date of this TSB 2/2014.

 

From 2008 to 2014 this was not a recall but a Factory Service Bulletin that was addressed with only customers that 'repeatedly' and loudly complained of rapid tire wear.

 

From 2006 until the FSB came out complains were first addressed by Honda providing NEW ALIGNMENT specs which did nothing but by stroke of a pen put the out of camber situation in mid spec. 

 

That was replaced in 2008 with an additional spec change to increase to the stupid rear toe in a effort to even the wear. And some tire relief IF when inspected it still had the OEM BRAND, TYPE AND SIZE it came with. None did naturally. 

 

About this time (2008) they also released a new upper control arm whose design length SPEC was longer but as the production tolerance for +/- was huge many replacement arms that were close to the minimum length were actually shorter than the original arms at their maximum length. That the set they installed on ours. We bought the car from my sister-in-law who bought it new with 60K on the clock and already had eaten 3 sets of tires. We went through 2 more sets before Honda replaced the arms and then another set only 8K miles after the repair. Yea wore out faster fixed than not. 6 sets of tires in under 100K. 

 

MOOG Problem Solver line had an adjustable length arm that I bought an installed and then had my local private shop dial in the alignment to specs to MY CHOICE.

 

Did the next 100 K on one set and now 30K into a second set and look new yet. Added almost 5 mpg to the normal average. Handling improvement was off the hook. As was braking and the run in twitch was gone. 

 

I have a few more accounts like this including Dizzy's breather system and the issues that FUBAR design caused. And a totally messed up 76 Ford Granada I bought new. 

 

There is no Elfin Magic factory or 'special' engineers except those that get to work on the Corvette projects.