2500HD Duramax vs Gas for my use case

[jj1987]

Hey Everyone,

 

I know this question has been asked over and over in various ways, but I wanted to provide specifics around how I intend to use the truck and see if especially those of you with experience with each engine can chime in.  I'm coming from a RAM 1500 Ecodiesel that got 31mpg (tuned) highway, and around 13-15mpg towing the boat, but sometimes the boat was more noticeable than I'd like.  It blew up at 54,000 miles, so now it's time for a new one.  I bought the truck when I was commuting 45min a day to work, then got a work from home job 2 weeks later.  Now we generally drive my wife's Honda Civic for around town and the truck when towing.  We do have a baby due in January, so we'll need more room than the Civic has for road trips, so some of the road trips will shift to the truck, or renting a bigger vehicle depending on rental rates and how far we're driving.

 

I'm leaning towards the gas for the following reasons

• I'm in between a 1500 and 2500, so I'm not convinced the diesel is worth the up front cost for towing
• I work from home, so I rarely drive my truck, hence 54k miles in 7 years (18k were in year 1 before I owned it).  Because of this, recouping the diesel up front cost is unlikely.
• Filling up diesel can be annoying, every time I'm at the filling station then there's a line of gas cars at the 2 diesel pumps because people don't realize how rude it is.
• When towing our boat on road trips, we often end up at truck stops for convenience, where diesel is $1/gallon more than at Sam's club where I usually get gas, which kills a lot of the diesel advantage.
• Short trips tend to never get hot enough for a regen
• Minor repairs even under warranty take longer, as there are fewer diesel mechanics at the dealership than gas.

 

I understand on the internet, we're supposed to act filthy rich where gas prices don't matter, but at the end of the day they do.  Diesel does save $400/year, so over 7 years of ownership that's $3k or so, then let's say $4-7k more when you sell the truck for the diesel.  So really, the total cost of ownership, the diesel is $1-3k more.  That's not enough to change my final decision either way.  I used prices from my local Sam's, factoring in only a 60 cent a gallon difference ignoring the temporary inflated diesel prices since this is a 5-7 year decision and not a 12mo out decision.

 

This is the boat we're towing, a Sea Pro 248.  Fairly aerodynamic.

 

Rough Weight ~6300lbs

• 3000lbs hull
• 727lbs DF350A outboard
• 420lbs of fuel
• ~1000lb aluminum trailer
• 750lbs of other gear when trailering
• T-Top weight, ~300lbs

 

Now, I know many will say this is fine for a 1500, but remember that boats are not well balanced, so they tend to tow a lot worse than other types of trailers.

 

The next decision is with a baby on the way we would like to rent a camper in the mountains a few times a year.  Our neighborhood has a community boat ramp and dock, so we won't camp enough to own one as boating will take priority, only on long weekends for something different to do.  Given I've never towed a camper, this is really the big decision point.  If I don't get the diesel, will I regret it towing a camper?  The 7 year cost of ownership isn't *that* much different for me, so I'm flipping back and forth on my decision process.

[ssgballistics]

I think that a gas truck will serve your needs just fine. 6300 lbs boat shouldn’t be anything for any 3/4 ton truck. I have a 22 CCSB w/ gas. My dad has a 21 CCSB w/ duramax. So I have experience with both. Been very impressed with the towing of the 6.6 gas. My camper is relatively small, but handles it great. The gas stations between my house and office don’t carry diesel, so fueling a gas truck is way more convenient. A lot of folks complain about the 6 speed transmission, but I feel that the transmission is a great matchup for the engine. 

[Njmurvin]

It depends on how much camper towing, what sized camper, and what sized mountains. You'll never regret a diesel when towing a load over 10-12K in the mountains. Strictly for your boat, I'd go with gas.

[sheath]

If you don't drive much, and tend towards short trips on a regular basis, then gas may be a good choice.

Compared to your eco-diesel, any HD truck is going to raise your monthly fuel costs.   It may be worth doing some research to see if you can figure out the difference in fuel mileage of a 2500HD in diesel versus gas. 

Nice thing about the GM L8T gas engine is it tows heavy just fine on 87 Octane.  There are plenty of fuel economy threads on this forum for both diesel and gas versions.

 

I tow just under 30% of the time, with weight between 14,300 lbs and 15K lbs (better than 98% of the time is a good sized 5th wheel travel trailer, but I've pulled a cattle trailer a few times as well) with a gas 3500HD. 

Certainly the gas engine is a weak dog compared to the diesel, but I really only miss the diesel when pulling long steep grades, and when navigating gas stations while towing.  Gas pump islands are rarely designed for long trailers. 

 

Good luck on your choice.

[jj1987]

Thanks guys.  I think if I could find an extended powertrain warranty for a reasonable price, that would be the one thing to send me over to the diesel camp.  5 year 100k mile factory warranty is basically a 5 year 30k mile warranty for me.  The hard part is the fear of the unknown-- with a little one coming how will life change?  What if we love camping and do it once a month, or in general just start driving more often (sports, road trips vs flying for vacation, etc).

 

If I could get a 10yr 100k warranty on the diesel then it becomes a $1k/year added expense and a truck we'll never grow out of which would be much easier to justify.  I'll see if I can find anything online to see what those cost.  With how low the failure rate is on powertrain items I would hope something exists that's reasonable, or maybe that's just wishful thinking and all extended warranties really are scams.

[Silverado4x4]

18 minutes ago, jj1987 said:

Thanks guys.  I think if I could find an extended powertrain warranty for a reasonable price, that would be the one thing to send me over to the diesel camp.  5 year 100k mile factory warranty is basically a 5 year 30k mile warranty for me.  The hard part is the fear of the unknown-- with a little one coming how will life change?  What if we love camping and do it once a month, or in general just start driving more often (sports, road trips vs flying for vacation, etc).

 

If I could get a 10yr 100k warranty on the diesel then it becomes a $1k/year added expense and a truck we'll never grow out of which would be much easier to justify.  I'll see if I can find anything online to see what those cost.  With how low the failure rate is on powertrain items I would hope something exists that's reasonable, or maybe that's just wishful thinking and all extended warranties really are scams.

Extended warranty really is a scam kinda, think about it you buy a 5 year extended warranty your truck already has a 3 year warranty so you're paying 3 years for nothing (double warranty) so all are you're doing is buying a 2 year warranty.

If I were you I would go gas cheaper fuel dollar or more less then Diesel, less cost to maintain don't have to worry about DEF fluid and regen cycles.

 

Years ago when we bought a vehicle they tried to sell the waranty I said sure Ill buy it if you start it after the manufactors warranty he said we cant do that then I told him what I said above and he had nothing to say but yeah your right.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Silverado4x4

[nards444]

6 hours ago, Silverado4x4 said:

Extended warranty really is a scam kinda, think about it you buy a 5 year extended warranty your truck already has a 3 year warranty so you're paying 3 years for nothing (double warranty) so all are you're doing is buying a 2 year warranty.

If I were you I would go gas cheaper fuel dollar or more less then Diesel, less cost to maintain don't have to worry about DEF fluid and regen cycles.

 

Years ago when we bought a vehicle they tried to sell the waranty I said sure Ill buy it if you start it after the manufactors warranty he said we cant do that then I told him what I said above and he had nothing to say but yeah your right.

Never buy an extended warranty up front biggest dumbest thing you can do.  I am sure there will be some guy that comes along with i just spent 80 and wanted piece of mind bologna.

 

With that said you can get the same GM extended warranty down the road after your factory is up.  By then you can figure out if you need and or if you still have the truck.  

[nards444]

Lucky you just traded in a 2021 2500 diesel for a 2022 2500 gasser.  Let me say this before anything else,  the gas motor is not even a comparison to the diesel when towing, NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!  Question is do you need it.

 

Diesel got about 2 mpg better in all around and 4-5mpg better when towing my loads which were around 7-9k.  I could literally accelerate going 75 up to 85 rather quickly, not doing that with the gasser with that kind of weight.  Diesel will also hold its value and that 10k upcharge you will get a good portion back.  Even though the diesel got better MPG paying 1.50-2 bucks less a gallon still made the gas motor cheaper

 

Again the question is do you need it.  my personal opinion get up over 9-10k yes I would do a diesel,  40-50% or more of your driving is towing, yes get a diesel.  

 

Now reasons to not get a diesel

-cost 10k more

-maint cost more and and more of it

-oddly enough hard to find diesel at times specially in cities

-Need more odds and ends stuff, like fuel filters and DEF(which I didnt find to be a big deal as it was 3-4 times a year)

 

 

If your only driving 54k miles in 5-6 years Im going to blow this up and tell you to buy a half ton.  6k for a half ton is more than capable on a periodic basis.  Half ton rides better, cheaper to buy and run.  I would point you to a getting the HD packages that some manufactures offer in the half tons.  Personally Id only buy an F150 3.5 ecoboost, outhaul any half ton out there.

 

TBH with you I needed a heavy duty truck but paying for diesel just adds up and really justifiable for the amount I used.  After owning the 6.6 gasser it gets the job but the motor kind of sucks on the other hand.  Dogs while towing,  mid range sucks on the thing,  good luck passing anybody going 50-60mph,  GM screwed up and put a garbage trans in it or something.  Unless you have dreams of towing big in the future, do yourself a favor and go buy yourself a nice half ton. 

 

[jj1987]

7 minutes ago, nards444 said:

Lucky you just traded in a 2021 2500 diesel for a 2022 2500 gasser.  Let me say this before anything else,  the gas motor is not even a comparison to the diesel when towing, NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!  Question is do you need it.

 

Diesel got about 2 mpg better in all around and 4-5mpg better when towing my loads which were around 7-9k.  I could literally accelerate going 75 up to 85 rather quickly, not doing that with the gasser with that kind of weight.  Diesel will also hold its value and that 10k upcharge you will get a good portion back.  Even though the diesel got better MPG paying 1.50-2 bucks less a gallon still made the gas motor cheaper

 

Again the question is do you need it.  my personal opinion get up over 9-10k yes I would do a diesel,  40-50% or more of your driving is towing, yes get a diesel.  

 

Now reasons to not get a diesel

-cost 10k more

-maint cost more and and more of it

-oddly enough hard to find diesel at times specially in cities

-Need more odds and ends stuff, like fuel filters and DEF(which I didnt find to be a big deal as it was 3-4 times a year)

 

 

If your only driving 54k miles in 5-6 years Im going to blow this up and tell you to buy a half ton.  6k for a half ton is more than capable on a periodic basis.  Half ton rides better, cheaper to buy and run.  I would point you to a getting the HD packages that some manufactures offer in the half tons.  Personally Id only buy an F150 3.5 ecoboost, outhaul any half ton out there.

 

TBH with you I needed a heavy duty truck but paying for diesel just adds up and really justifiable for the amount I used.  After owning the 6.6 gasser it gets the job but the motor kind of sucks on the other hand.  Dogs while towing,  mid range sucks on the thing,  good luck passing anybody going 50-60mph,  GM screwed up and put a garbage trans in it or something.  Unless you have dreams of towing big in the future, do yourself a favor and go buy yourself a nice half ton. 

 

Getting a HD 1500 would actually cost more than the 2500 LT/Custom that I'm looking at.  I considered that route.

 

The 3.5L F150 is the most fun truck I've ever driven.  I had one for 2 separate week long rentals for work and loved it.  Unfortunately it's significantly more expensive up front, and would still suffer from being a lighter truck that the boat can push around quite a bit.

[gregus73]

I found the 1500s to be more costly than the 2500s.

Really like my diesel for driving in the mountains and towing.

 

Getting 670+ miles on a tank is great too.

The diesel seems to get better mpg.

was looking at the 1500 Trail Boss vs the Z71 2500.

[Random]

Just moving up to the 2500HD will be huge in making your towing more stable/enjoyable. So either the gas or diesel will check that box for you. Given the information you've provided the gas option meets or exceeds all of your requirements.

 

For me it was easy enough to choose the diesel option, as it simplified my traveling while towing. I'm not saying the gas option wouldn't work for me, but what I was looking for was more in line with quality of life and future potential. Traveling long distances and through mountains is tiring and stressful when towing and now it's not much more worse than driving a car. The power going up the mountain and the the exhaust brake going down are the obvious benefits; depending on the traffic you can set your cruise control and it'll manager your speed going up and down. With my Pilot RV Plus card and my fleet card from TSD Logistics/Open Roads I can pull up to any truck stop and use the commercial lanes to fuel up and top off def at cash price or less. That simplifies trip planning and having to hunt for a big enough gas station to get fuel.

[nards444]

17 hours ago, jj1987 said:

Getting a HD 1500 would actually cost more than the 2500 LT/Custom that I'm looking at.  I considered that route.

 

The 3.5L F150 is the most fun truck I've ever driven.  I had one for 2 separate week long rentals for work and loved it.  Unfortunately it's significantly more expensive up front, and would still suffer from being a lighter truck that the boat can push around quite a bit.

I get it.  Just comparing oranges to oranges.  Comparing an LTZ to a 2500 custom isnt really apples to apples.  Owning two 3.5 ecos I can tell you, you would be more than happy towing a boat that small.

 

End of the day if your comparing like trim levels of a 2500 to a 1500 the cost isn't worth talking about.  And you do get more with the 2500 in terms of hauling.  Although the half ton is just easier all around the engine doesnt dog in mid range