OCI, not when but why?

VicFirth · December 20, 2023

Do you think an oil that has high solvency such as HPL, Amsoil SS or Red Line can clean as well?

Grumpy Bear · December 20, 2023

1 hour ago, VicFirth said:

Do you think an oil that has high solvency such as HPL, Amsoil SS or Red Line can clean as well?

As well as Valvoline Restore and Protect? Don't know what I don't know. But what I do know is the products mentioned will prevent it from needing such a product. If indeed you are talking about Red Line HP and not the Professional Series or

HPL's top few lines and their EC fluid. Amsoil SS was the only one you specified a product within the brand.

I've chronicled the very successful use of HPL SAE40 EC to clean rings in the GM Ecotec 2.4.

HPL Premium passenger, Supercar and Euro oils that contain the same specific esters and AN's and I'm told by their people it is an effective 'long term' cleaner.

Red Line HP uses a different ester. POE. It is a very effective at preventing varnish and sludge and piston deposits. I've shown Pepper under the valve covers here several times. Like it was just put together and never run.

I 'think' AMSOIL SS would fall at the same level as a cleaner/prophylactic as Red Line HP.

No longer available CUMMINS Restore by Valvoline was a killer high solvency oil used during the redesign of the CUMMINS ISX15 motor. Point being, Esters are effective cleaners if the right ones are used.

I'd like to see the PDS and SDS on this product.

VicFirth · December 20, 2023

US_Val_RestoreProtect_5W30_MO_EN.pdf - DocuSign CLM (springcm.com)

diyer2 · December 20, 2023

HPL SAE40 EC

This has proven it works.

Grumpy Bear · December 21, 2023

3 hours ago, VicFirth said:

US_Val_RestoreProtect_5W30_MO_EN.pdf - DocuSign CLM (springcm.com)

Do you have the PDS?

VicFirth · December 21, 2023

17 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Do you have the PDS?

Just click on the link. I should have labeled it PDF.

US_Val_RestoreProtect_5W30_MO_EN.pdf - DocuSign CLM (springcm.com)

Edited December 21, 2023 by VicFirth

Grumpy Bear · December 21, 2023

Grumpy Bear · December 21, 2023

This is what I see. Three different GroupII/GroupIII (one a solvent dewaxed, old tech) fluids in a blend with some ester-based zinc and a 'black box' cleaning additive. Still has SN/SP/SP+ levels of zinc and phosphorus and some sulfur. The Liquid Shield Technology is just bread and butter detergents/surfactants or some variation thereof. Basically, restating the most basic functionality of detergents and dispersants.

It does not meet the Dexos1Gen3 thus the NOACK is rated at <13% or the SN-SP++ spec. They just say <15% covering the top of the spec.

If the cleaning function is legit, it is a bare bone mineral synthetic whose detergents actually clean and not merrily prophylactic.

Is it an improvement over other 'shelf oils". Perhaps. It's a good replacement for HPL/RL/AMSOIL. Not likely. But for Joe Average it is worth a look in a world where OEM's have lost the handle on oil control. 3 to 5K OCI's until I saw some repeatable DETAILED UOA's.

Marketing calling a mixed breed a pure bread. Someday someone will pull all the right levers. So far, I'm still waiting.

VicFirth · December 21, 2023

23 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

This is what I see. Three different GroupII/GroupIII (one a solvent dewaxed, old tech) fluids in a blend with some ester-based zinc and a 'black box' cleaning additive. Still has SN/SP/SP+ levels of zinc and phosphorus and some sulfur. The Liquid Shield Technology is just bread and butter detergents/surfactants or some variation thereof. Basically, restating the most basic functionality of detergents and dispersants.

It does not meet the Dexos1Gen3 thus the NOACK is rated at <13% or the SN-SP++ spec. They just say <15% covering the top of the spec.

If the cleaning function is legit, it is a bare bone mineral synthetic whose detergents actually clean and not merrily prophylactic.

Is it an improvement over other 'shelf oils". Perhaps. It's a good replacement for HPL/RL/AMSOIL. Not likely. But for Joe Average it is worth a look in a world where OEM's have lost the handle on oil control. 3 to 5K OCI's until I saw some repeatable DETAILED UOA's.

Marketing calling a mixed breed a pure bread. Someday someone will pull all the right levers. So far, I'm still waiting.

This Valvoline oil may lose it's ability to do that when going past your typical drain interval.

For an off the shelf option and normal drain intervals, this may be a great choice.

Edited December 22, 2023 by VicFirth

OnTheReel · December 21, 2023

At $38.99 I’ll pass. Maybe it’ll be under $30 at Walmart, and then it’s a little more appealing.

Otherwise I can get 5 quarts of Farm & Fleet synthetic (on sale), and a quart of HPL EC for around the same money. And I’ll bet it’s more effective too.

VicFirth · December 22, 2023

On 12/21/2023 at 11:14 AM, OnTheReel said:

At $38.99 I’ll pass. Maybe it’ll be under $30 at Walmart, and then it’s a little more appealing.

Otherwise I can get 5 quarts of Farm & Fleet synthetic (on sale), and a quart of HPL EC for around the same money. And I’ll bet it’s more effective too.

Their oils are even more aggressive cleaners than the EC per HPL. The EC uses a low cost ester that works, but it's not even as effective as their oils.

OnTheReel · December 22, 2023

48 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

Their oils are even more aggressive cleaners than the EC per HPL. The EC uses a low cost ester that works, but it's not even as effective as their oils.

Yeah, this is apparently true. Trouble is you’re still talking a $70 oil change for the very lowest end product they sell.

Cheap bulk and EC is probably more competitive with the new Valvoline as far as price and performance. Of course just speculation because I’ve seen nothing real world on the Valvoline yet.

VicFirth · December 23, 2023

Using the EC with a regular off the shelf oil isn't a bad idea. I like that HPL tells you what base oils, VI they use and that they use esters and AN's. I really like the company. They don't get involved in the usual shenanigans.

Edited December 23, 2023 by VicFirth

OnTheReel · December 25, 2023

They are definitely one of the most open and responsive companies in any industry, let alone a shady one like motor oil. I had some questions about my last test result with HPL Super Car. I was able to email David directly and he got back to me very quickly with original measured viscosity @100c from the exact batch I bought from them over 6 months ago. For that alone…even if I don’t keep using their product in my truck, I will be a customer for life in some capacity. Also doesn’t hurt that promo code BITOG15 makes their stuff really quite affordable for the quality you get.