Giving the gas motor a shot

[CRApex]

I've had diesels the last several years and currently driving a 2020 3500 HC.  I'm a big supporter of the Duramax/10spd Allison branded combo, it drives great (even as a daily driver) and I've had great luck with it..none of the "emissions nightmares" that some publish.  That said, I do achnowledge that there is more to go wrong, I just haven't experienced it.  However, I've said that if they ever offered the 6.6 gas with the 10spd Allison I 'might' give it a shot and that's what I'm doing.  Ordered a 24 3500 HC Gas, same configuration as my diesel so will have a fair comparison.  I just wish I knew the price difference for the gas vs diesel, I would think the difference would be less given the 10spd Allison is now used in both trucks, but who know.

[newdude]

37 minutes ago, CRApex said:

I've had diesels the last several years and currently driving a 2020 3500 HC.  I'm a big supporter of the Duramax/10spd Allison branded combo, it drives great (even as a daily driver) and I've had great luck with it..none of the "emissions nightmares" that some publish.  That said, I do achnowledge that there is more to go wrong, I just haven't experienced it.  However, I've said that if they ever offered the 6.6 gas with the 10spd Allison I 'might' give it a shot and that's what I'm doing.  Ordered a 24 3500 HC Gas, same configuration as my diesel so will have a fair comparison.  I just wish I knew the price difference for the gas vs diesel, I would think the difference would be less given the 10spd Allison is now used in both trucks, but who know.

 

 

Base price is up $1500 on the High Country 1 ton SRW.  So $74,095 base price for the 6.6 gas, $83,845 for the 6.6 Duramax.  Obviously if you start looking at the dollars and cents, oil changes cost more, DEF, and diesel is more than gas right now.  

Edited January 16 by newdude

[Ray Pickle]

So the difference appears to be about $9700? Slightly less than previous years, maybe because of the 10 speed in the gasser? 

[SWDoodle]

I really like this new 6.6 gas.  I've had 6.0's with 4 speeds and 6 speeds and this one is quite a bit better.  I will probably always keep one diesel around (as long as it's reliable) for real heavy tows, but this 6.6 is pretty good.  IMO I'd probably only look at the diesel now days if you tow heavy and often or live in hilly areas or just simply want the most power you can get.  Economy (fuel savings) doesn't mean anything anymore like it used too.  So far my 6.6 gas is only getting 1.5 mpg less average (13.2 vs 14.7) than my LML.  I am very happy with that.  Diesel is 30% higher where I live so it will never pay back plus no DEF or emmissions issues.    

 

I live in flat country so the gas does fine even with heavy loads.  So yeah it's nice to drive my LML but the 6.6 gas will get it done.  I think the 10-speed will help a bunch.  There is a flat spot in the power band from 30-45.  It's good up to about 30 and fine 45+ but a few more gears will probably help balance the curve a bit better.  I guess we'll see.  If it does make that much difference then I may never go to diesel for what I do.  I do wish GM would have squeezed a bit more torque out of this 6.6.  I'd like to see about 500 torque but it does pretty good. 

 

I don't think you are making a bad decision. Yes the new L5P's will be ridiculous on power but I just wonder when extra power trumps longevity/reliability.  I know one thing it's amazing what these new pickups can do.  Yeah they cost an arm and leg but we still have a few GMT-400's around the farm and they are like model T's compared to the new stuff.      

[20Denali22]

I had an 16 LML & 21 L5P and chose to order a 24 6.6 gas myself. 

Edited January 18 by 20Denali22

[Pryme]

Gas, grass or a** no one rides for free.  Remember those bumper stickers?

 

diesel isn’t an option hahaha

[Jettech1]

On 1/18/2023 at 10:37 AM, Pryme said:

Gas, grass or a** no one rides for free.  Remember those bumper stickers?

 

diesel isn’t an option hahaha

I do lol....My thoughts are that I love my 2500 gasser.  BUT, if I were ever to get a 3500, I would totally spend the money for the diesel for the extra towing capacity that I don't need.  I'm just saying, I would never buy a 3500 gasser, why???  Because you won't get the most out of what the 3500 has to offer.  I believe the 2500 is the sweet spot on these HD trucks, especially the gassers.  Several years ago I bought a new 2016 Charger SRT with the 392.  It wasn't because I didn't love the Hellcat engine.  It was because the 392 was truly the sweet spot.  So looking at the sweet spot with towing capabilities amongst other costs.....I do believe the 2500 gasser is the best of the best of what it can tow and what it offers.

[asilverblazer]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:39 PM, Jettech1 said:

...if I were ever to get a 3500, I would totally spend the money for the diesel for the extra towing capacity that I don't need.  I'm just saying, I would never buy a 3500 gasser, why???  Because you won't get the most out of what the 3500 has to offer.  I believe the 2500 is the sweet spot on these HD trucks, especially the gassers... So looking at the sweet spot with towing capabilities amongst other costs... I do believe the 2500 gasser is the best of the best of what it can tow and what it offers.

I think this is a reasonable sentiment. 

 

Mine was similar, I was upgrading my truck - if I didn't get a diesel I would have regretted it, no sense stopping at 2500, go 3500.

[Jettech1]

7 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

I think this is a reasonable sentiment. 

 

Mine was similar, I was upgrading my truck - if I didn't get a diesel I would have regretted it, no sense stopping at 2500, go 3500.

I totally agree.

[CRApex]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:39 PM, Jettech1 said:

I do lol....My thoughts are that I love my 2500 gasser.  BUT, if I were ever to get a 3500, I would totally spend the money for the diesel for the extra towing capacity that I don't need.  I'm just saying, I would never buy a 3500 gasser, why???  Because you won't get the most out of what the 3500 has to offer.  I believe the 2500 is the sweet spot on these HD trucks, especially the gassers.  Several years ago I bought a new 2016 Charger SRT with the 392.  It wasn't because I didn't love the Hellcat engine.  It was because the 392 was truly the sweet spot.  So looking at the sweet spot with towing capabilities amongst other costs.....I do believe the 2500 gasser is the best of the best of what it can tow and what it offers.

Great!  Now I'm second guessing! lol.  The thing is though, aren't the 2500 and 3500 essentially the same truck with different rear springs?  My thought is similar to yours in the sense that if the gas is ok in the 2500 and the only real difference is the rear springs, why not just get the 3500 with the gas motor?  Now if I was going DRW, totally get it.

 

 

[Jettech1]

2 hours ago, CRApex said:

Great!  Now I'm second guessing! lol.  The thing is though, aren't the 2500 and 3500 essentially the same truck with different rear springs?  My thought is similar to yours in the sense that if the gas is ok in the 2500 and the only real difference is the rear springs, why not just get the 3500 with the gas motor?  Now if I was going DRW, totally get it.

 

 

Here's some numbers for you right from Chevy's website.  4WD SRW Crewcab - Conventional towing, not 5th wheel.

2500/3500 gas - 14500 max towing

2500 diesel - 18500

3500 diesel - 20000

The numbers are higher for 5th wheel towing.  From what I've read, the 3500's have larger torsion bars in the front and helper springs in the rear.  I believe that's about all the differences between the two that I can find, if someone knows of more please educate us.

Payload capacities are of course different between them as well.  So for me, a gasser fits us perfectly towing our 8k camper.  But if you look at the numbers when it comes to the 3500 diesel, they are way above the gasser equipped trucks, 5500lbs to be exact.  And that's a lot of weight and of course where my reasoning comes from saying that a 2500 gasser makes total sense, but a 3500 gasser (to me) just doesn't make any sense at all because you are missing out on so much of the capabilities of the truck.  Anyhow I hope I helped you.

[Doodle]

14 minutes ago, Jettech1 said:

Here's some numbers for you right from Chevy's website.  4WD SRW Crewcab - Conventional towing, not 5th wheel.

2500/3500 gas - 14500 max towing

2500 diesel - 18500

3500 diesel - 20000

The numbers are higher for 5th wheel towing.  From what I've read, the 3500's have larger torsion bars in the front and helper springs in the rear.  I believe that's about all the differences between the two that I can find, if someone knows of more please educate us.

Payload capacities are of course different between them as well.  So for me, a gasser fits us perfectly towing our 8k camper.  But if you look at the numbers when it comes to the 3500 diesel, they are way above the gasser equipped trucks, 5500lbs to be exact.  And that's a lot of weight and of course where my reasoning comes from saying that a 2500 gasser makes total sense, but a 3500 gasser (to me) just doesn't make any sense at all because you are missing out on so much of the capabilities of the truck.  Anyhow I hope I helped you.

I believe the 3500 SRW has a bigger ring gear too.  12” on the 3500 and 11.5” on the 2500.  Not a huge deal but there is a difference.  A lot of guys out my way run 3500 SRW for farm and ranch use as dually’s just aren’t real practical off road.  I can tell you there is a big difference how the pickup will handle weight in a 2500 vs 3500.  Not that the 2500 won’t handle heavy loads (thats what I run) but the 1 tons are quite a bit stouter. Depending upon what you do a 3500 gas isn’t a bad option but I would agree with others if you want to maximize the capability the diesel would be better.  

[Jettech1]

17 minutes ago, Doodle said:

I believe the 3500 SRW has a bigger ring gear too.  12” on the 3500 and 11.5” on the 2500.  Not a huge deal but there is a difference.  A lot of guys out my way run 3500 SRW for farm and ranch use as dually’s just aren’t real practical off road.  I can tell you there is a big difference how the pickup will handle weight in a 2500 vs 3500.  Not that the 2500 won’t handle heavy loads (thats what I run) but the 1 tons are quite a bit stouter. Depending upon what you do a 3500 gas isn’t a bad option but I would agree with others if you want to maximize the capability the diesel would be better.  

The diesel option in both the 2500/3500 give you the 12" rear diff.  But they both get the 11.5" when they are gassers from what I've read.  I could be wrong as I am most of the time...lol.... And you're right about the payload capacities between the two.  The 3500's generally have about 500lb extra payload capacity due to the rear helper springs.  The overall spring pack is identical between them both.  I guess a 3500 gasser might be useful if you're more looking for payload capacities and not necessarily towing abilities. And that brings up one other option that I had to have and would totally recommend for anyone buying a HD truck, and that is the 5th wheel/gooseneck prep.  It's about a grand but gives you more options.  We probably will never buy a 5th wheel, but who knows, it's always nice to have the ability if needed.  To me that is the one option, even if you never use it, to always select or look for when buying a HD.

Edited January 25 by Jettech1

[MORSNO]

20 hours ago, Jettech1 said:

The diesel option in both the 2500/3500 give you the 12" rear diff.  But they both get the 11.5" when they are gassers from what I've read.  I could be wrong as I am most of the time...lol.... And you're right about the payload capacities between the two.  The 3500's generally have about 500lb extra payload capacity due to the rear helper springs.  The overall spring pack is identical between them both.  I guess a 3500 gasser might be useful if you're more looking for payload capacities and not necessarily towing abilities. And that brings up one other option that I had to have and would totally recommend for anyone buying a HD truck, and that is the 5th wheel/gooseneck prep.  It's about a grand but gives you more options.  We probably will never buy a 5th wheel, but who knows, it's always nice to have the ability if needed.  To me that is the one option, even if you never use it, to always select or look for when buying a HD.

 

The reason the SRW 2500 to 3500 payload doesn't increase much is because of wheel/tire limitations.  The factory sized wheel/tires, both 18" and 20" weight limits are around 3,500-3,640 lbs so no matter what you do to the suspension, the wheels/tires can only carry so much weight.  Dually tires drop to 17" which have an even smaller weight limit, around 3,195 lbs but there are two of them on each side (they are also derated from this number as dual tires).

[Another JR]

4 hours ago, MORSNO said:

 

The reason the SRW 2500 to 3500 payload doesn't increase much is because of wheel/tire limitations.  The factory sized wheel/tires, both 18" and 20" weight limits are around 3,500-3,640 lbs so no matter what you do to the suspension, the wheels/tires can only carry so much weight.  Dually tires drop to 17" which have an even smaller weight limit, around 3,195 lbs but there are two of them on each side (they are also derated from this number as dual tires).

Just as a data point:

 

The RGAWR on my 2021 3500 hd cclb srw gas truck is 7,250 lbs. The tires (stock Michelins on 18s) are rated at 3,640 lbs single at 80 psi, so the simple  tire limited axle limit would be 7,280 lbs.  My payload rating is 4,054 lbs, which I think is about 1,000 lbs more than a typical 2500hd. 
 

My understanding from what MTU has posted is that, in addition to differences in the rear overload springs, the basic rear spring pack on the 3500 has one additional spring relative to the 2500.  

Edited January 26 by Another JR
Added spring info