Fat Lady Singing.

unit731 · May 29, 2009

Or fat man - not to be sexist.

It's all over. Government gets about 60% or thereabouts, union gets 30% or thereabouts, stockholders and bond holders get the rest. Yes, the numbers vary from day to day. But I think the point is there.

Stated before, Rick Wagner chose not to be at the helm for the Chapter 11 filing. Golden parachute or not, he quit.

New name could well be Government United Auto Workers Corporation or GUAW.

Soon there will be two types of GM vehicles.

Those made before the bankruptcy and those made after the bankruptcy.

And . . . what about my Mastercard GM Points?

cc1999 · May 29, 2009

Who knows whats going to happen for sure. But if Chryslers Chapter 11 is any indication. They are trucking right along pretty much business as usual as far as the public is concerned. I would have to think the same would be true whenever GM goes into chapter 11 as well.

fbachman · May 29, 2009

Who knows whats going to happen for sure. But if Chryslers Chapter 11 is any indication. They are trucking right along pretty much business as usual as far as the public is concerned. I would have to think the same would be true whenever GM goes into chapter 11 as well.

I agree with you, with one caveat. Had GM gone Chapt 11 WITHOUT government money and DC being able to drive the ship, it would have had a chance, and the average consumer would have been hard-pressed to tell the difference.

NOW, however, GM will be driven by politics, not economics.

The difference between GM with DC in control and the Titantic? The Titantic had a band.

VMax2007 · May 29, 2009

Who knows whats going to happen for sure. But if Chryslers Chapter 11 is any indication. They are trucking right along pretty much business as usual as far as the public is concerned. I would have to think the same would be true whenever GM goes into chapter 11 as well.

I agree with you, with one caveat. Had GM gone Chapt 11 WITHOUT government money and DC being able to drive the ship, it would have had a chance, and the average consumer would have been hard-pressed to tell the difference.

NOW, however, GM will be driven by politics, not economics.

The difference between GM with DC in control and the Titantic? The Titantic had a band.

Hate to be Frank, Frank, but you are full of shit IMO.

Many 3rd party experts have agreed that if GM had gone into C11 last year before the bailouts, it would have been an unstructured, chaotic C11 that would have likely ended up in C7. The bailouts allowed GM to stay operational while planning a structured C11.

The Gov has emphasized MANY times that they have no interest in running GM. They are simply funding them and overseeing their viability plan (protecting their investment). Once the C11 process runs it's course, they will sell their shares.

But if you want to believe the gov is this evil entity set out to destroy the world. More power to you, enjoy your sad, sad life.

ryan_hermanutz · May 29, 2009

Who knows whats going to happen for sure. But if Chryslers Chapter 11 is any indication. They are trucking right along pretty much business as usual as far as the public is concerned. I would have to think the same would be true whenever GM goes into chapter 11 as well.

I agree with you, with one caveat. Had GM gone Chapt 11 WITHOUT government money and DC being able to drive the ship, it would have had a chance, and the average consumer would have been hard-pressed to tell the difference.

NOW, however, GM will be driven by politics, not economics.

The difference between GM with DC in control and the Titantic? The Titantic had a band.

Hate to be Frank, Frank, but you are full of shit IMO.

Many 3rd party experts have agreed that if GM had gone into C11 last year before the bailouts, it would have been an unstructured, chaotic C11 that would have likely ended up in C7. The bailouts allowed GM to stay operational while planning a structured C11.

The Gov has emphasized MANY times that they have no interest in running GM. They are simply funding them and overseeing their viability plan (protecting their investment). Once the C11 process runs it's course, they will sell their shares.

But if you want to believe the gov is this evil entity set out to destroy the world. More power to you, enjoy your sad, sad life.

Well put Jeff, I doubt that any light bulbs were turned on, but well put Sir!

fbachman · May 29, 2009

Who knows whats going to happen for sure. But if Chryslers Chapter 11 is any indication. They are trucking right along pretty much business as usual as far as the public is concerned. I would have to think the same would be true whenever GM goes into chapter 11 as well.

I agree with you, with one caveat. Had GM gone Chapt 11 WITHOUT government money and DC being able to drive the ship, it would have had a chance, and the average consumer would have been hard-pressed to tell the difference.

NOW, however, GM will be driven by politics, not economics.

The difference between GM with DC in control and the Titantic? The Titantic had a band.

Hate to be Frank, Frank, but you are full of shit IMO.

Many 3rd party experts have agreed that if GM had gone into C11 last year before the bailouts, it would have been an unstructured, chaotic C11 that would have likely ended up in C7. The bailouts allowed GM to stay operational while planning a structured C11.

The Gov has emphasized MANY times that they have no interest in running GM. They are simply funding them and overseeing their viability plan (protecting their investment). Once the C11 process runs it's course, they will sell their shares.

But if you want to believe the gov is this evil entity set out to destroy the world. More power to you, enjoy your sad, sad life.

Well put Jeff, I doubt that any light bulbs were turned on, but well put Sir!

Well, I respect your opinions and appreciate them. I don't think either of you are full of shit, especially since we just don't agree on this issue. Why am I full of shit because I don't share your opinion?

Many 3rd party experts have agreed that if GM had gone into C11 last year before the bailouts, it would have been an unstructured, chaotic C11 that would have likely ended up in C7. The bailouts allowed GM to stay operational while planning a structured C11.

They are probably right. BUT, nobody can predict what the future holds on this. It may STILL become chaotic.

I still think it is just pro-longing the inevitable.

Until sales rebound, meaning credit rebounds, NO business can exist without a slaes volume to cover a fraction of the costs.

Never said the government was EVIL... just incompetent in this arena.

I never said they were out to destroy the world. This is just an an area the gevernment has no expertise in, running a business. I may be wrong, but I can not beieve for one moment that they will sit back and "let the experts handle it". I hope I am wrong, but I just have this opinion.

Remember FreedieMac and FannieMae the the government expertise tied up in that?

I have been involved in too many government acquisition programs to have an opinion that they have ANY business saavy what-so-ever, whether on the ousude looking in, OR, on the inside "helping".

I guess, in time, we will see who's right or who's wrong. It MAY turn out that this will be positive, I just don't see how.

Sorry if you guys took this personally. It wasn't. Just stating an opinion....that's all. Never claimed i was right.

VMax2007 · May 29, 2009

Look up (google) Lockheed.

fbachman · May 29, 2009

Look up (google) Lockheed.

...and look for what specifically, I deal with them daily..... (I guess I am missing your point here)

VMax2007 · May 29, 2009

Look up (google) Lockheed.

...and look for what specifically, I deal with them daily..... (I guess I am missing your point here)

The gov't actually made money on those loans and the company thrived eventually.

http://www.propublica.org/special/bailout-...rmaths#lockheed

fbachman · May 29, 2009

Look up (google) Lockheed.

...and look for what specifically, I deal with them daily..... (I guess I am missing your point here)

The gov't actually made money on those loans and the company thrived eventually.

http://www.propublica.org/special/bailout-...rmaths#lockheed

ahhh... gotcha. Well, that is certainly a good argument. Of course, back then, Lockheed was bankrupted, essentially, by the failure of Rolls Royce Aero Engines to deliver on the HBP turbofans for the L1011, as lockheed hadn't made provisons to offer any competitors engines on that airframe.

When it all blew up, they didn't have the cash to do the systems engineering for GE or Pratt offerings. Today, Lockheed is a little different animal offering no high passenger seat commerical airframes. Too bad. The L1011 remains, in my opinion, as one of the finest commercial airframes ever produced. Still tons of them in freighter service and limited military tanker service overseas. The L1011 had customers wating in the wings for the product to appear.

IF we can get back to a point where the demand picks up for vehicles in general, that may shed a whole new light on all of this. It will be interesting to say the least.

Like I said, I am not a massochist. I really do hope that GM can come out of this swinging, and come out a viable, profitable entity. IT is just nauseating to me to see what has happened in general. We'll see what happens.

I haven't forgotten the CHrysler thing in the 80s where Iacocca paid everything back early with interest.

If any of us could predict the future, we could all retire.