New GM service policy?

[Doug_Scott]

Your sense of entitlement is absurd, the warranty is to cover factory defects and with a tune, the truck is no longer factory. Simple as that.

 

My sense of entitlement? What are you talking about? My wanting the dealer to represent me to GM is not absurd. My expecting the place that I have bought my last 8 new vehicles from to treat me well is not absurd. Care to explain to me how doing a tune to simply correct the speedo due to a gear change entitles GM to void my warranty? I guess replacing tires makes the truck no longer factory stock. Hell, the day I did the first oil change and replaced the oil and filter it became no longer factory stock. See how absurd your statement has become?

[Hoe-n-it]

Every manufacturer has electronic controls in their powertrains and aside from the worthless G80, GM truck powertrains are the best out there. Plenty of LSx engines with over 200k miles on them, I'll be surprised if a Ford 5.0 does that with its miles of timing chains. All manufacturers also have the same stance on tunes and all have procedures in place for dealers to follow before doing big buck warranty repairs. Your sense of entitlement is absurd, the warranty is to cover factory defects and with a tune, the truck is no longer factory. Simple as that.

 

 

Actually, not so simple. If they find a tune they no longer will cover a factory defect and automatically cancel ALL powertrain warranty and warranty on all future repairs blaming it on a tune before a problem or issue has even happened. If their crystal ball was so good why did they go bankrupt. This is like saying if you put in a non AC Delco air filter that the truck is no longer factory. This was the reason for the Magnassum-Moss warranty act and GM is ignoring it knowing most customers won't know about it or fight it. A company like GM should not only comply with the letter of the law but with the spirit of the law.

 

 

Very simple-IMHO. GM has a boardroom full of lawyers and will eat any of us and our individual lawyers ALIVE. It's as simple as that. Even if you got that far. The legal system is for wealthy people period. If they said a tune blew you motor, by the time you got done in court it would be far cheaper to put a $5,000.00 motor in to your truck than to fight it. I don't care about Magnassum-Moss Act or any other circus act, if your not rich you don't stand a chance. And most of here are not rich.

 

 

Maybe so but you missed my point. Are you a conspiracy theorist too?

 

 

You may disagree and not like what I said, but there are not any conspiracies involved. Honoring warranties and why they went bankrupt really are not related.

 

 

Don't dislike what you said at all. You missed my point............and again. Never mind.

[RyanbabZ71]

I guess replacing tires makes the truck no longer factory stock

 

Technically if you put on bigger tires that are not to "factory" spec it would be the case. Now if you an unrelated issue to the tires it should not matter. Now if you wore out a part in the front end you may have trouble with them covering the repairs.

 

"you have to pay to play"

[jdelrizzle]

Every manufacturer has electronic controls in their powertrains and aside from the worthless G80, GM truck powertrains are the best out there. Plenty of LSx engines with over 200k miles on them, I'll be surprised if a Ford 5.0 does that with its miles of timing chains. All manufacturers also have the same stance on tunes and all have procedures in place for dealers to follow before doing big buck warranty repairs. Your sense of entitlement is absurd, the warranty is to cover factory defects and with a tune, the truck is no longer factory. Simple as that.

 

Actually, not so simple. If they find a tune they no longer will cover a factory defect and automatically cancel ALL powertrain warranty and warranty on all future repairs blaming it on a tune before a problem or issue has even happened. If their crystal ball was so good why did they go bankrupt. This is like saying if you put in a non AC Delco air filter that the truck is no longer factory. This was the reason for the Magnassum-Moss warranty act and GM is ignoring it knowing most customers won't know about it or fight it. A company like GM should not only comply with the letter of the law but with the spirit of the law.

 

Very simple-IMHO. GM has a boardroom full of lawyers and will eat any of us and our individual lawyers ALIVE. It's as simple as that. Even if you got that far. The legal system is for wealthy people period. If they said a tune blew you motor, by the time you got done in court it would be far cheaper to put a $5,000.00 motor in to your truck than to fight it. I don't care about Magnassum-Moss Act or any other circus act, if your not rich you don't stand a chance. And most of here are not rich.

 

Maybe so but you missed my point. Are you a conspiracy theorist too?

 

You may disagree and not like what I said, but there are not any conspiracies involved. Honoring warranties and why they went bankrupt really are not related.

 

 

Actually, If you do any modifications to your truck and you blow your engine or your tranny, and you knew that by modifying your truck your warranty would be out the window and you turn around and bring your truck back to stock/factory go to your dealer pull a fast one and have it fixed under warranty, isn't that hurting GM, isn't that making GM do a repair they shouldn't have done. And yet people still turn around and bad mouth GM!

[jdubub]

Every manufacturer has electronic controls in their powertrains and aside from the worthless G80, GM truck powertrains are the best out there. Plenty of LSx engines with over 200k miles on them, I'll be surprised if a Ford 5.0 does that with its miles of timing chains. All manufacturers also have the same stance on tunes and all have procedures in place for dealers to follow before doing big buck warranty repairs. Your sense of entitlement is absurd, the warranty is to cover factory defects and with a tune, the truck is no longer factory. Simple as that.

 

Actually, not so simple. If they find a tune they no longer will cover a factory defect and automatically cancel ALL powertrain warranty and warranty on all future repairs blaming it on a tune before a problem or issue has even happened. If their crystal ball was so good why did they go bankrupt. This is like saying if you put in a non AC Delco air filter that the truck is no longer factory. This was the reason for the Magnassum-Moss warranty act and GM is ignoring it knowing most customers won't know about it or fight it. A company like GM should not only comply with the letter of the law but with the spirit of the law.

 

Very simple-IMHO. GM has a boardroom full of lawyers and will eat any of us and our individual lawyers ALIVE. It's as simple as that. Even if you got that far. The legal system is for wealthy people period. If they said a tune blew you motor, by the time you got done in court it would be far cheaper to put a $5,000.00 motor in to your truck than to fight it. I don't care about Magnassum-Moss Act or any other circus act, if your not rich you don't stand a chance. And most of here are not rich.

 

Maybe so but you missed my point. Are you a conspiracy theorist too?

 

You may disagree and not like what I said, but there are not any conspiracies involved. Honoring warranties and why they went bankrupt really are not related.

 

 

Actually, If you do any modifications to your truck and you blow your engine or your tranny, and you knew that by modifying your truck your warranty would be out the window and you turn around and bring your truck back to stock/factory go to your dealer pull a fast one and have it fixed under warranty, isn't that hurting GM, isn't that making GM do a repair they shouldn't have done. And yet people still turn around and bad mouth GM!

 

 

Ohhhhh Nooooo lol

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[SILVERADOSC540]

Two notes pertaining to this post. First when I traded in my '07 Vmax, they did an ecm history and found that I'd tuned it in the past and would not list it as certified pre-owned at that point. I had removed the tune about fifty miles and one day before my trade in.

Second, my Callaway warranty is for Callaway parts only, and is separate from the GM factory warranty which remains in effect. So, GM will let a company like Callaway tune and modify their vehicles and not void the warranty, but with fine print.

[Z45]

fyi................................................................

 

Federal law precludes an oem from voiding warranty just because of using aftermarket speed equipment, with only two exceptions: the warranty can be voided if the aftermarket part causes damage, or adversely affects the emissions or the emissions system.

 

SEMA (Specialty Equipment Market Association) reported that a trade association representing specialty automotive parts manufacturers, the following quotes have been extracted:

 

"The vehicle manufacturer is not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket equipment is installed on the vehicle. This protection for consumers is the result of a parts self certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).

 

[mymaggiebell]

and the fine print is what??? mr. i love your truck!!!

[Svenleven]

Whether or not the ECM stores flash history or not, I do not know for sure.

 

What I do know is from an electronics stand point, if the chips do not track the history of whats been stored on them, there is absolutely no way that a "special" tool will be able to tell anything different from a normal diagnostic tool. It's all in what the chip is able to store on it. If it does, then that's a different story. If anything got "burned" into the chip, it would be a locked chip so to speak, and you wouldn't be able to flash them with a tune anyways.

 

If the argument can be settled once and for all on if the chips store any history (and from what I've been reading, it leans heavily to the side that they currently do not), then it's a simple answer as too whether they can tell once it's been flashed to stock. If that changes with the new body style coming in 2014, then it's a totally different answer.

 

The only thing that I can think of would be tuning the truck, then going back to stock for a dealership visit where they have some ECM update to load on. Then you re-tune the truck without updating the stock tune, and the next time you visit the dealership you "mysteriously" have the old ECM version when they check. This probably raises flags if this occurs. But as I have not done this what-so ever, all of this part is all hearsay and assumptions. How often would they roll out ECM updates anyways? My guess is not very.

[BlackZ71Silverado]

No matter how many facts are posted about manufacturers not being allowed to void warranty or being able to make you purchase specific branded products, there will always be those few 'stock is best guys' saying otherwise.

 

If you like your truck plain jane stock, that's fine it's yours. I don't like it all stock, I paid for it and will do what I please. If something goes wrong because of something I did to my truck that I paid $40,000 for and GM wants to void my warranty after proving without any doubt that I caused the failure, I'll buy a new truck, simple as that.

GM claiming void warranty because of any non GM product can go pound sand.

 

FYI for the OEM guys, if you replace your tires and they are not the same tires that came on the truck, it's no longer stock.

[MikeNH]

 

FYI for the OEM guys, if you replace your tires and they are not the same tires that came on the truck, it's no longer stock.

 

 

 

Weak argument. Tires, like every other part would need to meet OEM specifications (ie same size, similar load rating, etc). It doesn't need to be the same exact component especially since in some cases the OEM tire isn't readily available for purchase.

 

 

And I never said you'll get your warranty voided but that you need to be prepared to fight, and also be prepared to lose because if there is a hard component failure like a trans letting go, it would be extremely difficult to prove it wasn't the tunes fault. People have taken the hard road, fought GM and won but to do so takes more time and money than I can afford to waste.

 

The link below is a summary of the situation I reference every time this discussion pops up on forums-

 

http://www.midwestdieselconnection.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-349.html

 

For those who don't feel like clicking, back in 2004 an owner had a Duramax with a Banks exhaust brake installed. A valve in the engine broke, causing catastrophic failure of the engine. GM blamed the failure on the brake and the owner paid over $20k for a new engine, as well as additional money to retain the wrecked engine so a 3rd party failure analysis could be done. Valves were found not to meet specification and after more legal BS, GM bought back the truck and covered the repair cost.

 

Sorry, but I can't afford to cough up $20k to fight the good fight so until I can get a full understanding of what GM can or cannot detect with "standard" equipment as well as what might exist out there that isn't "standard", I view tunes as an unacceptable risk. Just my opinion, I could care less what you or anyone else does to their trucks.

[Daryl LBZ]

Whether or not the ECM stores flash history or not, I do not know for sure.

 

What I do know is from an electronics stand point, if the chips do not track the history of whats been stored on them, there is absolutely no way that a "special" tool will be able to tell anything different from a normal diagnostic tool. It's all in what the chip is able to store on it. If it does, then that's a different story. If anything got "burned" into the chip, it would be a locked chip so to speak, and you wouldn't be able to flash them with a tune anyways.

 

If the argument can be settled once and for all on if the chips store any history (and from what I've been reading, it leans heavily to the side that they currently do not), then it's a simple answer as too whether they can tell once it's been flashed to stock. If that changes with the new body style coming in 2014, then it's a totally different answer.

 

The only thing that I can think of would be tuning the truck, then going back to stock for a dealership visit where they have some ECM update to load on. Then you re-tune the truck without updating the stock tune, and the next time you visit the dealership you "mysteriously" have the old ECM version when they check. This probably raises flags if this occurs. But as I have not done this what-so ever, all of this part is all hearsay and assumptions. How often would they roll out ECM updates anyways? My guess is not very.

 

 

 

 

 

When my 2009 started having transmission trouble I had Justin tune it back to stock ( I didn't have the extra set of Modules). I took it down for them to fix it, and, nothing was said about it ever being tuned. They even told me straight up that they updated the modules to a newer version, and my truck was just in a few months earlier for work.

 

So they either knew it was tuned, but didn't really care because I was buying a new truck anyhow, or they never found that it was tuned. It didn't matter to me anyhow because if they were going to deny my warranty I was just going to have the trans rebuilt with stronger parts anyway.

[Hoe-n-it]

Only a complete idiot would flash the stock ECM with warranty remaining. Just buy a spare ECM to flash and enjoy a truck tuned your way with a virgin factory tuned when needed. This does not have to be complicated.

 

 

Well it does have to be complicated for the six speed because the TCM for the transmission is located inside the transmission. Not so simple to change to a spare. For me, the greatest benefit for the tune was tuning the transmission because of the HORRIBLE way it shifted and drove with the stock tune. If it wasn't for changing the tune for the transmission I wouldn't of bothered.

[CKNSLS]

FYI for the OEM guys, if you replace your tires and they are not the same tires that came on the truck, it's no longer stock.

 

 

 

Weak argument. Tires, like every other part would need to meet OEM specifications (ie same size, similar load rating, etc). It doesn't need to be the same exact component especially since in some cases the OEM tire isn't readily available for purchase.

 

 

And I never said you'll get your warranty voided but that you need to be prepared to fight, and also be prepared to lose because if there is a hard component failure like a trans letting go, it would be extremely difficult to prove it wasn't the tunes fault. People have taken the hard road, fought GM and won but to do so takes more time and money than I can afford to waste.

 

The link below is a summary of the situation I reference every time this discussion pops up on forums-

 

http://www.midwestdi....php?t-349.html

 

For those who don't feel like clicking, back in 2004 an owner had a Duramax with a Banks exhaust brake installed. A valve in the engine broke, causing catastrophic failure of the engine. GM blamed the failure on the brake and the owner paid over $20k for a new engine, as well as additional money to retain the wrecked engine so a 3rd party failure analysis could be done. Valves were found not to meet specification and after more legal BS, GM bought back the truck and covered the repair cost.

 

Sorry, but I can't afford to cough up $20k to fight the good fight so until I can get a full understanding of what GM can or cannot detect with "standard" equipment as well as what might exist out there that isn't "standard", I view tunes as an unacceptable risk. Just my opinion, I could care less what you or anyone else does to their trucks.

 

 

That's what I have been saying. A $500.00 or so "tune" is one thing. Filing a lawsuit against GM is big bucks. And very few on this board would have the resources to do this and see it out to the end result.

 

The 6 speed shifts sloppy-no questions about that. But a tune isn't the answer -it voids the warranty.

[SILVERADOSC540]

Ah yes, the fine print...The modifications did include engine and transmission recalibration. My shift points are higher, red line is higher, top speed limiter is either off or way up there(just a guess of course...), shifts are more firm, etc.. In fact when I bought the truck it would sputter when I would turn off stabilitrac, and after speaking with the engineers at Callaway, Pete Callaway flew out from Santa Ana California to reprogram the truck...

 

http://www.callawayc...arr_061511A.pdf