Does GM Only Hire Engineers Who Squeak By In College?

[TxTruckMan]

It appears a struck a nerve for a few folks. So, here is some background:

 

Owned or kids owned:

2015 GMC Sierra (Headllight issue, poor shifting and bad radio reception)

2012 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4WD 5.7L (not a single issue)

2010 Toyota Highlander V6 (not a single issue) - 75000 miles

2008 Ford Taurus (not a single issue) - 114000 miles

2005 Honda Pilot V6 (not a single issue) - 138000 miles

2003 Ford Mustang V6 (Junk - Poor quality construction) -

2001 VW Passat 1.8T (Not a single issue) - 118000 miles

2001 Chevrolet 2500HD 6.0L 4WD (Lemon lawed Piston Slap - Confirmed cylinder damage in 2 cylinders - GM stated normal operation) - 33000 miles

1995 Chevrolet 1500 2WD 5.0L (Traded for 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD due to bucking issue) - 54000 miles

1995 Ford Taurus V6 (not a single issue) - 113000 miles

1991 Ford Taurus V6 (not a single issue) - 77000 miles

1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera V6 (Peeling paint - GM refused to acknowledge problem) - 57000 miles

LOL! All those "perfect" vehicles and you still came back to GM? Who's the not so bright one?

 

And I don't believe that with all those vehicles you've never had one service visit or light bulb go out. I call BS.

 

Your complaints are trivial and subjective. Stop whining.

[wurgs]

I expect it to hold the setpoint within a couple of MPH except on extreme grades. None of them have done that. My 2011 on a hill loses to -5 MPH or more then pours on throttle and overshoots the setpoint by +5 MPH or more and doesn't even start to back off until it hits the setpoint. This is just bad programming. I learned better than that in Control Systems 101. The SRTs maintain speed +/- 1 MPH except on the most extreme grades. Not difficult.

I have actually paid attention to this as my old 09 Sierra did pretty much as you have said just not as extreme, usually about 3 mph changes. My 15 Sierra never varies by more than 1 mph and even then it corrects to my set speed quickly. It's a major improvement from the older trucks.

[j-ten-ner]

That's my point. I think they are the best, they have the best product, but nobody is perfect.

 

Why do Microsoft, Google, and Apple make mistakes with their products? Why do NASA engineers make mistakes? Why do doctors make mistakes? Name one person or company that is perfect.

 

You're right. Nobody is perfect.

But I do not accept that as an excuse.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

[ghgmi]

It appears a struck a nerve for a few folks. So, here is some background:

 

Owned or kids owned:

2015 GMC Sierra (Headllight issue, poor shifting and bad radio reception)

2012 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4WD 5.7L (not a single issue)

2010 Toyota Highlander V6 (not a single issue) - 75000 miles

2008 Ford Taurus (not a single issue) - 114000 miles

2005 Honda Pilot V6 (not a single issue) - 138000 miles

2003 Ford Mustang V6 (Junk - Poor quality construction) -

2001 VW Passat 1.8T (Not a single issue) - 118000 miles

2001 Chevrolet 2500HD 6.0L 4WD (Lemon lawed Piston Slap - Confirmed cylinder damage in 2 cylinders - GM stated normal operation) - 33000 miles

1995 Chevrolet 1500 2WD 5.0L (Traded for 2001 Chevrolet 2500HD due to bucking issue) - 54000 miles

1995 Ford Taurus V6 (not a single issue) - 113000 miles

1991 Ford Taurus V6 (not a single issue) - 77000 miles

1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera V6 (Peeling paint - GM refused to acknowledge problem) - 57000 miles

Eleven vehicles listed, for seven of them--more than half--you claim "not a single issue".

 

I believe in giving people the benefit of doubt, but I just can't believe that anyone's luck is that good. None of those cars needed a battery, or a relay? No starters, water pumps, windshield wiper motors, or power window motors? Didn't replace a cat or a muffler? No leaking seals? Never charged an AC or replaced headlight bulbs? No rust?

 

I've owned seven cars/trucks. The very best one of them needed a battery, a relay, new headlight bulbs, the AC charged, a brake caliper, and the emergency brake adjusted. (I'm assuming that regular maintenance, tires, and brake pads don't count.)

 

I mean, I get that some cars are better than others. In some cases a lot better. But "not a single issue" is a very strong claim, especially for seven cars.

 

(FWIW, I'm with you on the DRLs. My old truck chewed through them like candy.)

[15GMCSierra]

Eleven vehicles listed, for seven of them--more than half--you claim "not a single issue".

 

I believe in giving people the benefit of doubt, but I just can't believe that anyone's luck is that good. None of those cars needed a battery, or a relay? No starters, water pumps, windshield wiper motors, or power window motors? Didn't replace a cat or a muffler? No leaking seals? Never charged an AC or replaced headlight bulbs? No rust?

 

I've owned seven cars/trucks. The very best one of them needed a battery, a relay, new headlight bulbs, the AC charged, a brake caliper, and the emergency brake adjusted. (I'm assuming that regular maintenance, tires, and brake pads don't count.)

 

I mean, I get that some cars are better than others. In some cases a lot better. But "not a single issue" is a very strong claim, especially for seven cars.

 

(FWIW, I'm with you on the DRLs. My old truck chewed through them like candy.)

On the vehicles without issues, I have replaced burnt out bulbs, water pump and timing belt (per scheduled maintenance interval), brakes, batteries and tires. The normal things expected during ownership. The Mustang had a lot of body hardware issues, but all of the other vehicles were as stated. I have a 200 foot driveway with a 6 degree slope. My GMC bucks and jerks all the way up the hill everyday on the 2-3 shift, so I do not think my expectations are too high for a transmission to shift properly.

[Chevor]

And I just keep driving.

[Kent2500]

Complex devices can fail for numerous reasons. Even SpaceX blows up rockets now and then..

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/08/consumer-reports-tesla-model-s-has-more-than-its-share-of-problems/index.htm

 

"At a little over 12,000 miles, the center screen went blank, eliminating access to just about every function of the car, including popping open the charge port.

Automatic-retracting door handles, which were occasionally reluctant to emerge from the coachwork.

One of the buckles for the third row had broken.

Then at about 15,700 miles, we found that the front trunk lid wasn’t responding to the release, which is a virtual button on the central screen.

We also had the Tesla-supplied adapter for non-Tesla EV chargers come apart.

Given the number of bits and pieces Tesla has replaced on our car, it might be tempting to guess that its reliability score will go down. The reality is, it might."

 

Every OEM has product issues, failures. Even Tesla and Apple. Just takes one sub-supplier with bad parts to make an entire product look bad.

 

I spent a year researching my next truck and numerous hours in the Chevy, Ford, Ram forums. Guess what, they all have issues. Some Ford owners will spend $$$ to put in a third-party intercooler to fix their eco-boost. WTF?

 

That said, it shouldn't be used as an excuse. Just tossing our hands up and accepting crap is not right either. (zero issues with my truck). At least in the US we have lemon laws...

[waumo1]

I have actually paid attention to this as my old 09 Sierra did pretty much as you have said just not as extreme, usually about 3 mph changes. My 15 Sierra never varies by more than 1 mph and even then it corrects to my set speed quickly. It's a major improvement from the older trucks.

I guess I should test drive a 2015. Maybe they finally got it right!

[waumo1]

^^^^^^

 

Exactly, my truck stays with in 1mph of the set point going down hill or up hill, if your truck isn't then take it to the dealer.

 

Even more funny since you show to have a 2011 truck and are bitching about things on the 2014+ forums.

Yep you got me there. I didn't even notice the 2014+ forum .....

[haider320]

OP, sucks to be you, bro. My truck is by FAR the best truck I have ever owned. No contest.

 

 

Mine too! It's been perfect..

[Spurshot]

Most of those are electrical engineer issues

 

 

Ryan

 

That explains it!

 

The OP may not have had exposure to how a new, complex, highly regulated product is defined, conceptualized, the details designed, integration of the systems, design changes, component testing, more design changes, system level testing, more design changes, full product testing, more design changes.....design changes. It's an incredibly complex process to develop an engineered product like a vehicle. Frankly, it makes the seven wonders of the world look like childsplay.

 

A modern fighter jet takes about 10 years from start of the process to having a production airplane. I'm guessing a truck takes several years. That's why they don't change complete designs from year to year.

 

Someone mentioned the transmission shifting may have been affected by CAFE. I think that's probably the case. The transmission has as big a role in fuel economy as the engine. Keeping the engine in the right gear for economy is not the same as keeping it in the right gear for performance. Completely the opposite in fact. GM is seeking to get the best fuel economy they can. They seem to have done a great job of that. Tuners can do what makes the performance oriented customer happy, without regard for meeting fuel economy constraints that will be tested and thoroughly verified.

 

At least half or more of the items listed may be quality control issues, rather than engineering issues. Big difference.

[southern_sierra]

What amazes me is that through several generations of vehicles GM still cannot program a cruise control that maintains speed even half decent. The vacuum controlled, mechanical governed cruise in my 69 Grand Prix still maintains speed much better than any of ones that I have owned in GM vehicles since then. I'd like to say the cruise controls in our SRTs work perfectly but I'd get flamed to ashes here if I did.

I have the say the cruise control on my 14 works great has always maintained the set speed even on the big hills just kicks out of over drive and moves along. My biggest problem is the stiff front suspension but will fix that when bilstein makes the 6112 shock and coil spring available.

[f8l vnm]

I'm on board here. 15 dealer visits for me in less then a year of owning it. At this point I will drive for a few more months and do a lemon law case. I know 100% I will win as they have fixed several issues , on multiple occasions. A couple of issues have been fixed 4 times now. Not to mention every time I take my foot of the gas , this pos clunks like a 18 wheeler just rear ended me. How stupid can gm be ? General morons is always a good name I like to use.

So it's like I'm driving a free truck for the next few months. Gm can foot the bill for a few extra months for all the trouble this piece of turd has been.

I was sold on getting another gm product but after driving my buddies new 15 f150 lariat , I have mix emotions.

I love the gm truck look better but that's about it. Fit , finish , intuitive thinking , nicer interior are all traits the F150 has the gm boys don't.

Gm quality is still pretty crappy after all these years. I still love my gmc but this pos is a Lemon lime if I have ever seen one

[2017SierraSLT]

Yep you got me there. I didn't even notice the 2014+ forum .....

 

My '13 holds speed well in all conditions.

[Lawnmower2020]

 

The OP may not have had exposure to how a new, complex, highly regulated product is defined, conceptualized, the details designed, integration of the systems, design changes, component testing, more design changes, system level testing, more design changes, full product testing, more design changes.....design changes. It's an incredibly complex process to develop an engineered product like a vehicle. Frankly, it makes the seven wonders of the world look like childsplay.

 

A modern fighter jet takes about 10 years from start of the process to having a production airplane. I'm guessing a truck takes several years. That's why they don't change complete designs from year to year.

 

Absolutely correct, and you left out the incredible amount of complex tooling that goes into manufacturing hundreds of thousands of something this complicated. If you look objectively at the complexity and functionality of these vehicles, you would have to be amazed that they can sell for a mere $50K. You can thank high levels of automation and production yield for this achievement.

 

I think they've done quite a job, actually. Considering everything that's involved in putting this product on the road, the number of chronic problems is tiny.