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The "Catch Can" Explained - By Elite Engineering

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DanMan_S Enthusiast

DanMan_S

Posted
Posted

Still not seen evidence this actually keeps di intake valves clean like they all advertise.

 

Carbon build on valves = baked on oil from intake air. Oil in catch can = less oil in intake. Whether or not they keep them perfectly clean is up for debate, but the only way oil is getting to the valves is from the intake, the only way oil is getting into the intake is from the PCV, so the more oil captured, the less being reintroduced to the engine. The oil on the valves doesn't magically appear.

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Spurshot Senior Enthusiast

Spurshot

Posted
Posted

You're always going to get some weeping of oil down the valves from the guides...even with guide seals.

 

The only time I've seen perfectly clean valves is when the engine had water injection..

  • 2 months later...
black00ta Enthusiast

black00ta

Posted
Posted

I like the idea of catch cans and oil separators as I've used them on previous LSx vehicles I've owned. DI w/ gasoline is a dirty design, that's just the way it is and I'm going to leave it be for a long time to see if it ever creates a problem that can be noticed. Call me crazy but I'm waiting for big buildup and will check with my scope at around 20k, then try the "super-heat" method and recheck results.

Spurshot Senior Enthusiast

Spurshot

Posted
Posted

I like the idea of catch cans and oil separators as I've used them on previous LSx vehicles I've owned. DI w/ gasoline is a dirty design, that's just the way it is and I'm going to leave it be for a long time to see if it ever creates a problem that can be noticed. Call me crazy but I'm waiting for big buildup and will check with my scope at around 20k, then try the "super-heat" method and recheck results.

 

I couldn't get a scope around the turn in the intake manifold from the plenum up and around the runner to the valve.

 

Here's my 23,000 ish mile picture. All looked about the same. The inside of the intake manifold was coated in oil as well. Please explain the "super heat method".

Oiled%20intake%20port_zps22ysjjqr.jpg

tnchevy Senior Enthusiast

tnchevy

Posted
Posted

I am probably going to be the ostrich with his head in the sand and pretend like I don't know anything about the crud build up from DI engines. As of this week I have had my truck for 1 year and put 6k miles on it which is alot for me considering I put about 4k miles a year on my old truck but since this one was new I drove it a little more. I will probably keep this one for 12 years or so like I did my last two Silverados and see what happens. Mechanical issues are not what put my last two trucks on the used car lot, it was rust and a lot of other little things tearing up that got me out those two which is not to uncommon on 10+ year old truck that see a lot of salt in the winter time. I have been shying away from bargain gas fill ups at the local grocery stores and wallyword and have been using top tier gas so maybe that will help a little bit. I am also on my second tank of premium gas in hopes that it would improve power and gas mileage but that has not been the case for me. Still at 19 to 19.5 mpg just like I was getting with 87 octane in the summer months.

black00ta Enthusiast

black00ta

Posted
Posted

 

I couldn't get a scope around the turn in the intake manifold from the plenum up and around the runner to the valve.

 

Here's my 23,000 ish mile picture. All looked about the same. The inside of the intake manifold was coated in oil as well. Please explain the "super heat method".

 

 

Sustained high-rpm for 10-20 minutes. Essentially you just cruise down the highway at 4500-ish RPM

Silverado-Hareek Senior Enthusiast

Silverado-Hareek

Posted
Posted

 

Sustained high-rpm for 10-20 minutes. Essentially you just cruise down the highway at 4500-ish RPM

 

That's not going to do anything except bake the contaminants on the valves even more. That will work for your cylinder walls maybe and the combustion chamber and exhaust system but the only way to clean the valves is with chemicals like BG or the Audi/BMW method of blasting it with walnut shells. Or you can try some other kind of mechanical method like wire brushes and compressed air to blow out the particles. A catch can will reduce the amount of buildup but at the end of the day, in all of my internet research and talking to mechanics that I know, nothing will prevent 100% of the buildup on the valves unless you have an old port-injection style engine and you use fuel system cleaners with that engine or top tier gas. A BG Induction service is the strongest product on the market with the easiest method to clean the valves on a DI engine.

  • 2 weeks later...
Spurshot Senior Enthusiast

Spurshot

Posted
Posted

My experience is that plain old water cleans as good as anything I've seen. The cleaning action of water, and I would venture a guess any other solution, is the same as heating a frying pan with burnt on food and tossing in some water. The steam cleans the crud. I see no need for commercial solutions for the valve cleaning.

 

The intake manifold is a different story. Only something that has a degreaser would do much. But then a thin film of oil in the intake manifold is no issue, as long as the source is stopped (air-oil separator). If you want to clean the intake manifold, the commercial cleaners that have alcohol may work.

Panik Enthusiast

Panik

Posted
Posted

The intake manifold is a different story. Only something that has a degreaser would do much. But then a thin film of oil in the intake manifold is no issue, as long as the source is stopped (air-oil separator). If you want to clean the intake manifold, the commercial cleaners that have alcohol may work.

 

Speaking of, were you ever able to get your Pro-Vent hooked up? I've been in the process of fabbing some brackets and just this morning got to painting them.

Spurshot Senior Enthusiast

Spurshot

Posted
Posted

Speaking of, were you ever able to get your Pro-Vent hooked up? I've been in the process of fabbing some brackets and just this morning got to painting them.

I still haven't done that.

Silverado-Hareek Senior Enthusiast

Silverado-Hareek

Posted
Posted

My experience is that plain old water cleans as good as anything I've seen. The cleaning action of water, and I would venture a guess any other solution, is the same as heating a frying pan with burnt on food and tossing in some water. The steam cleans the crud. I see no need for commercial solutions for the valve cleaning.

 

The intake manifold is a different story. Only something that has a degreaser would do much. But then a thin film of oil in the intake manifold is no issue, as long as the source is stopped (air-oil separator). If you want to clean the intake manifold, the commercial cleaners that have alcohol may work.

 

How do you clean the engine with water without contaminating the engine/oil and taking the entire thing apart to do it? And to do that the engine can't be hot so that "frying pan effect" can't happen. That doesn't seem like a viable solution at all from a cleaning standpoint. The benefit of chemicals like BG is you run them through the engine while it's running and burn everything off and send it right out the exhaust.

Spurshot Senior Enthusiast

Spurshot

Posted
Posted

SH

These modern treatments are just a spinoff of the age old technique of running/Reving the engine and dribbling water down the carburetor. I recall seeing it done 50 years ago. Of course, many companies over the years have made solutions to pour into running engines. Believe it or not, Marvel Mystery Oil was popular to do this.

 

I first saw the cleaning effects of water in turbocharged engines back in the 70s. The valves, pistons spark plugs, and chambers were incredibly clean after thousands of miles. These turbocharged engines had a very small (.040-.060) diameter nozzle running off a windshield washer pump, controlled by a pressure switch in the intake manifold. When the boost rose above a few psi, the pump turned on. The water injection was used as an anti-knock method. The side effect was a clean engine.

LongrangeLauber Senior Enthusiast

LongrangeLauber

Posted
Posted

SH

These modern treatments are just a spinoff of the age old technique of running/Reving the engine and dribbling water down the carburetor. I recall seeing it done 50 years ago. Of course, many companies over the years have made solutions to pour into running engines. Believe it or not, Marvel Mystery Oil was popular to do this.

 

I first saw the cleaning effects of water in turbocharged engines back in the 70s. The valves, pistons spark plugs, and chambers were incredibly clean after thousands of miles. These turbocharged engines had a very small (.040-.060) diameter nozzle running off a windshield washer pump, controlled by a pressure switch in the intake manifold. When the boost rose above a few psi, the pump turned on. The water injection was used as an anti-knock method. The side effect was a clean engine.

Is that what the modern day "methanol" injection is?
Silverado-Hareek Senior Enthusiast

Silverado-Hareek

Posted
Posted

SH

These modern treatments are just a spinoff of the age old technique of running/Reving the engine and dribbling water down the carburetor. I recall seeing it done 50 years ago. Of course, many companies over the years have made solutions to pour into running engines. Believe it or not, Marvel Mystery Oil was popular to do this.

 

I first saw the cleaning effects of water in turbocharged engines back in the 70s. The valves, pistons spark plugs, and chambers were incredibly clean after thousands of miles. These turbocharged engines had a very small (.040-.060) diameter nozzle running off a windshield washer pump, controlled by a pressure switch in the intake manifold. When the boost rose above a few psi, the pump turned on. The water injection was used as an anti-knock method. The side effect was a clean engine.

 

So this was a system that sprayed the water as you drove?

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