Is there a difference between Top Tier gas stations?

[SlowGMC]

I hauled fuel for a while and can tell you never buy 89. Its 87 with ethanol lol.

[16LT4]

23 hours ago, Jacoby said:

It’s all the same

It actually is all the same. A few years ago I had a waterfront apartment overlooking the Hudson River and a tank farm, and I’d often notice all the different branded trucks pulling up and filling from the same tank. Also, the guy who fills our boats (3 boats times 3000 gallons each 2x a week using a tanker truck of #2) fills up his trucks at one tank farm and delivers to a half dozen different brand stations. What ISNT the same is how clean the tanks are, leading to the driveabilty issues for the most part. 

[swathdiver]

On 6/26/2019 at 3:58 PM, reardiff said:

Is there a difference between Top Tier gas stations?

You better believe it!

 

I can always count on Shell's 93 to deliver at least 2 MPG LESS than Mobil's 93.  In my neck of the woods, Sunoco then Mobil then Chevron in that order deliver the best average fuel economy, all 93 octane fuel.

 

However, my truck gets its best gas mileage with an 18%-22% alcohol content, Sunoco 87 mixed with E85 for a 22% and 91 or 92 octane R+M rating.  Incidentally, this fuel costs much less to run saving our family hundreds of dollars.  Seventeen cents a mile versus twenty-four; that's a lot of coin.

[NomadicCPO]

On 6/27/2019 at 10:52 PM, swathdiver said:

You better believe it!

 

I can always count on Shell's 93 to deliver at least 2 MPG LESS than Mobil's 93.  In my neck of the woods, Sunoco then Mobil then Chevron in that order deliver the best average fuel economy, all 93 octane fuel.

 

However, my truck gets its best gas mileage with an 18%-22% alcohol content, Sunoco 87 mixed with E85 for a 22% and 91 or 92 octane R+M rating.  Incidentally, this fuel costs much less to run saving our family hundreds of dollars.  Seventeen cents a mile versus twenty-four; that's a lot of coin.

Gasoline is produced by a multitude of different refiners to meet a specification (specs vary depending on what EPA and/or local regulations require for that geographical area) at the lowest cost possible to the refiner.  Once they leave the refinery they are piped to bulk storage depots and into tanks there where they are mixed with gasoline from other refiners that meet the same spec.  Therefore, just because you’re buying gas at Sunoco or Shell doesn’t mean the gas was refined by those respective companies.  This is not up for debate..it’s a fact.  Best friend’s dad has been driving tanker trucks for over 30 years.  He pulls up to storage depot, connects the transfer lines, pushes a button and depending on which button he pushes, a company specific detergent additive is mixed in automatically.  The additives themselves are what distinguish the brand....not the base gasoline.  At all.  

Not doubting that different octane ratings and ethanol content are factors that affect the mileage one gets, but just pointing out that the energy content of a gallon of 93 octane with all other things being equal (ethanol content, winter/summer blend) in one’s area are the same...whether it’s bought at the corner no-brand store or at Chevron, Shell, etc.

[SoCa2ID]

2 hours ago, NomadicCPO said:

Gasoline is produced by a multitude of different refiners to meet a specification (specs vary depending on what EPA and/or local regulations require for that geographical area) at the lowest cost possible to the refiner.  Once they leave the refinery they are piped to bulk storage depots and into tanks there where they are mixed with gasoline from other refiners that meet the same spec.  Therefore, just because you’re buying gas at Sunoco or Shell doesn’t mean the gas was refined by those respective companies.  This is not up for debate..it’s a fact.  Best friend’s dad has been driving tanker trucks for over 30 years.  He pulls up to storage depot, connects the transfer lines, pushes a button and depending on which button he pushes, a company specific detergent additive is mixed in automatically.  The additives themselves are what distinguish the brand....not the base gasoline.  At all.  

Not doubting that different octane ratings and ethanol content are factors that affect the mileage one gets, but just pointing out that the energy content of a gallon of 93 octane with all other things being equal (ethanol content, winter/summer blend) in one’s area are the same...whether it’s bought at the corner no-brand store or at Chevron, Shell, etc.

You are 100% correct! 

[swathdiver]

4 hours ago, NomadicCPO said:

Gasoline is produced by a multitude of different refiners to meet a specification (specs vary depending on what EPA and/or local regulations require for that geographical area) at the lowest cost possible to the refiner.  Once they leave the refinery they are piped to bulk storage depots and into tanks there where they are mixed with gasoline from other refiners that meet the same spec.  Therefore, just because you’re buying gas at Sunoco or Shell doesn’t mean the gas was refined by those respective companies.  This is not up for debate..it’s a fact.  Best friend’s dad has been driving tanker trucks for over 30 years.  He pulls up to storage depot, connects the transfer lines, pushes a button and depending on which button he pushes, a company specific detergent additive is mixed in automatically.  The additives themselves are what distinguish the brand....not the base gasoline.  At all.  

Not doubting that different octane ratings and ethanol content are factors that affect the mileage one gets, but just pointing out that the energy content of a gallon of 93 octane with all other things being equal (ethanol content, winter/summer blend) in one’s area are the same...whether it’s bought at the corner no-brand store or at Chevron, Shell, etc.

Makes sense as does knowing one company's additives are better than another's.

[Cowpie]

On 6/27/2019 at 7:38 AM, SlowGMC said:

I hauled fuel for a while and can tell you never buy 89. Its 87 with ethanol lol.

Why not?  I have tanked fuel also and I use whatever gives me the best value.  For the last two years, I have been using E85 in our 2015 2500 6.0 and 2017 Equinox because the price variance to E10 was so great that even with the lower MPG of E85 it was still cheaper to use on a cost per mile basis.  The price variance is not as good right now, so am using E15 since it offers similar MPG to E10 but is selling for 5-10 cents lower than E10.

 

But as others have stated, all the gasoline for an area comes from the same tank farms who get their stock from a variety of refineries.  Name brand when it comes to the base gasoline means nothing.  Now, it is true, when the fuel is loaded on a tank truck, the station is entered into the system and the pre-programmed amount of additives are injected into the stream as it is loaded in each bulk head.   There are variances in additives based on the station getting the product. 

 

I don't really worry about it.  I never have been in the "top tier" camp.  Not saying it is a joke, simply that I don't worry about it.  I don't look for it.  I just look at cost.  My 2006 Cadillac CTS runs great and doesn't seem to notice it has only gotten bargain gasoline, of which most of it has never been "top tier" rated.

[NomadicCPO]

7 hours ago, Cowpie said:

Why not?  I have tanked fuel also and I use whatever gives me the best value.  For the last two years, I have been using E85 in our 2015 2500 6.0 and 2017 Equinox because the price variance to E10 was so great that even with the lower MPG of E85 it was still cheaper to use on a cost per mile basis.  The price variance is not as good right now, so am using E15 since it offers similar MPG to E10 but is selling for 5-10 cents lower than E10.

 

But as others have stated, all the gasoline for an area comes from the same tank farms who get their stock from a variety of refineries.  Name brand when it comes to the base gasoline means nothing.  Now, it is true, when the fuel is loaded on a tank truck, the station is entered into the system and the pre-programmed amount of additives are injected into the stream as it is loaded in each bulk head.   There are variances in additives based on the station getting the product. 

 

I don't really worry about it.  I never have been in the "top tier" camp.  Not saying it is a joke, simply that I don't worry about it.  I don't look for it.  I just look at cost.  My 2006 Cadillac CTS runs great and doesn't seem to notice it has only gotten bargain gasoline, of which most of it has never been "top tier" rated.

Well said Sir, and completely agree about doing what you’re comfortable doing maintenance and fuel wise.  

I would however argue that using Top Tier gas is more important in a GDI engine than in a port injection due to the higher operating pressures of the injectors.  It doesn’t seem to take a lot of gunk buildup to impact the spray pattern on these types of engines.

[Cowpie]

21 minutes ago, NomadicCPO said:

Well said Sir, and completely agree about doing what you’re comfortable doing maintenance and fuel wise.  

I would however argue that using Top Tier gas is more important in a GDI engine than in a port injection due to the higher operating pressures of the injectors.  It doesn’t seem to take a lot of gunk buildup to impact the spray pattern on these types of engines.gDI

Some truth to that.  That was one of the other reasons I like using higher ethanol blends in my 2017 Equinox 2.4 LEA GDI with 11.2:1 ratio. The high blends of ethanol keep the fuel system all cleaned out.  Now that it has gone back to E15 along with the 2500, I will probably just do the PEA fuel treatment gig every oil change.  Since I can't put a catch can on the Equinox anyway due to design constraints and resort to doing an intake manifold cleaning with CRC every 10,000 miles, things should be fine.

[Cpl_Punishment]

On 27/06/2019 at 6:38 AM, SlowGMC said:

I hauled fuel for a while and can tell you never buy 89. Its 87 with ethanol lol.

Around here, 89 is a mixture of 87 and 91. So, as most refiners put 10% ethanol in their 87 and none in their 91, 89 will have about 5% ethanol. Unless you go to PetroCanada/ Suncor; those guys love ethanol. 

[Cowpie]

Yeah, unless one gets a no ethanol 87, most E10 87 is actually 85 with ethanol to bump it up to 87.   89 is usually true 87 gas with ethanol to bump it up to 89.  Nice little games the retailers play with us.  I am pretty sure that the E15 88 I am getting is a 85 gas with up to 15% to get to the 88 octane rating.  But it is worth it.  E15 typically is 5 cents or more less than E10 in my area.

[wforrest08]

Well around here the tank drivers sometimes like to dump the wrong stuff in the wrong tank... 

 

When I was still wrenching years ago the same station 3 times the driver dumped E85 in the wrong tank. It was fun to see how far each car made it from the pump, some wouldn’t make it across the parking lot, some would make it a couple blocks, and every now & then one would make it the mile+ to the highway before dying. Then I got the fun job of making them run again when they got towed into our shop.

 

I bought my 015 new off the lot and it’s a flex fuel. I never figured I’d run ethanol in it, but was more than happy to pay the extra 100 bucks and chalked it up as “cheap wrong sh!t in the wrong hole insurance”.

[Cowpie]

3 hours ago, wforrest08 said:

Well around here the tank drivers sometimes like to dump the wrong stuff in the wrong tank... 

 

When I was still wrenching years ago the same station 3 times the driver dumped E85 in the wrong tank. It was fun to see how far each car made it from the pump, some wouldn’t make it across the parking lot, some would make it a couple blocks, and every now & then one would make it the mile+ to the highway before dying. Then I got the fun job of making them run again when they got towed into our shop.

 

I bought my 015 new off the lot and it’s a flex fuel. I never figured I’d run ethanol in it, but was more than happy to pay the extra 100 bucks and chalked it up as “cheap wrong sh!t in the wrong hole insurance”.

LOL!   I learned my lesson back something like 7-8 years ago when gas went above $4 and Diesel went above $5.  E85 hovered around $2.50.  No matter the lousy MPG with E85, it still came out at a lower cost per mile to use the stuff.  Ever since, one of the key factors in choosing a vehicle is it must be flex fuel capable.  The last two years, the price spread was favorable to use E85 exclusively.  The price spread died off a few weeks ago so I am back to E15 or E10.  But it sure is nice to have vehicles that can digest a smorgasbord of fuels. 

[NomadicCPO]

4 hours ago, wforrest08 said:

Well around here the tank drivers sometimes like to dump the wrong stuff in the wrong tank... 

 

When I was still wrenching years ago the same station 3 times the driver dumped E85 in the wrong tank. It was fun to see how far each car made it from the pump, some wouldn’t make it across the parking lot, some would make it a couple blocks, and every now & then one would make it the mile+ to the highway before dying. Then I got the fun job of making them run again when they got towed into our shop.

 

I bought my 015 new off the lot and it’s a flex fuel. I never figured I’d run ethanol in it, but was more than happy to pay the extra 100 bucks and chalked it up as “cheap wrong sh!t in the wrong hole insurance”.

My Silverado was a factory order that the guy never closed the deal on.  His sticker price was $52k, but apparently $100 was too much for him and he didn’t opt for the flex fuel.  Saddens me that I’m missing out on a cheap power boost over a measly hundred bucks.

[swathdiver]

2 hours ago, NomadicCPO said:

My Silverado was a factory order that the guy never closed the deal on.  His sticker price was $52k, but apparently $100 was too much for him and he didn’t opt for the flex fuel.  Saddens me that I’m missing out on a cheap power boost over a measly hundred bucks.

You can very likely add that capability to your truck depending on the year and engine.  Lots of threads around here on how to do it.