RAM sells more than Silverado for 2nd quarter

[HondaHawkGT]

2 hours ago, MaverickZ71 said:

More updated design, much nicer interior, larger more powerful Hemi engine (than the 5.3) with MDS but without the AFM problems, available mild hybrid model, much superior tuning on the 8 speed auto transmission, no leftover-from-the-1950s shifter-on-the-column, class exclusive optional air suspension, RamBox, and multi-function vertically-split tailgate, along with comparable reliability and dealer network = winner winner chicken dinner for the Ram.  

 

More powerful Hemi yet when Car and Driver tested both a 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 and a 2019 Silverado 5.3, practically every acceleration test between the two were a tie. It's a little sad that the best engine you can get in a Ram 1500 can't even out-accelerate a 5.3. Also, MDS is no more reliable than the Gen V engines with AFM. The fact that GM sells 3 or 4 times as many AFM engines as FCA does MDS engines helps skew the perception of relative reliability a lot. The dash shift knob in the Ram is the most effeminate shifter in the truck world. Not to mention it's just another thing cluttering up the dash. I'll take the "1950's" column shifter any day. Air suspension? Ram's Air Ride system is a total joke. Anyone living in the north knows just what garbage Air Ride is. They freeze up when temps dip below zero and the system starts blowing fuses, and you get to drive your truck to the dealer, with the front suspension totally deflated and riding on the bump stops while the back end is so overinflated it's like stacking a bunch of add-a-leafs under the rear axle. The whole system usually has to be replaced to fix it and usually it's a long wait for parts since it's such a common occurrence. Air ride is a bandaid to fix Ram's payload problem. It's funny actually. Ram proudly proclaims they massively improved payload ratings, yet most Laramie and Limiteds still average 1,500 lbs or less payload capacity in a 7100 lb GVWR truck. Car and Driver did a comparison between a 2019 Ram Limited, F-150 Limited, and a Silverado High Country. The Ram with a 7100 lb GVWR had a pathetic 990 lb payload capacity. Even the F-150 with a 6,750 lb GVWR still had an 1,100 lb payload capacity. That Ram's 10,300 lb tow rating isn't too useful when you barely have enough payload for the tongue weight after your family climbs in.

 

[KARNUT]

 
More powerful Hemi yet when Car and Driver tested both a 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 and a 2019 Silverado 5.3, practically every acceleration test between the two were a tie. It's a little sad that the best engine you can get in a Ram 1500 can't even out-accelerate a 5.3. Also, MDS is no more reliable than the Gen V engines with AFM. The fact that GM sells 3 or 4 times as many AFM engines as FCA does MDS engines helps skew the perception of relative reliability a lot. The dash shift knob in the Ram is the most effeminate shifter in the truck world. Not to mention it's just another thing cluttering up the dash. I'll take the "1950's" column shifter any day. Air suspension? Ram's Air Ride system is a total joke. Anyone living in the north knows just what garbage Air Ride is. They freeze up when temps dip below zero and the system starts blowing fuses, and you get to drive your truck to the dealer, with the front suspension totally deflated and riding on the bump stops while the back end is so overinflated it's like stacking a bunch of add-a-leafs under the rear axle. The whole system usually has to be replaced to fix it and usually it's a long wait for parts since it's such a common occurrence. Air ride is a bandaid to fix Ram's payload problem. It's funny actually. Ram proudly proclaims they massively improved payload ratings, yet most Laramie and Limiteds still average 1,500 lbs or less payload capacity in a 7100 lb GVWR truck. Car and Driver did a comparison between a 2019 Ram Limited, F-150 Limited, and a Silverado High Country. The Ram with a 7100 lb GVWR had a pathetic 990 lb payload capacity. Even the F-150 with a 6,750 lb GVWR still had an 1,100 lb payload capacity. That Ram's 10,300 lb tow rating isn't too useful when you barely have enough payload for the tongue weight after your family climbs in.
 

Are you accounting for all the 5.7s in cars. They all have the cylinder deactivation too. Will the single cab 5.7 out run the 5.3? I like to see times with the 5.7 single cab with the 392 gear. You have to give them credit for all the different hot rod options they offer.


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[bmartinez2086]

Look Ram my have the numbers right now, but my uncle bought one so did his son and my dad because they love the screen and tech on the truck. My uncle at 6 months it was a lemon. His son at 8 months. And my dad at 11 months. All from electric failures bad brake systems. Dead engine after a 100 mile tow, Trans went out twice on my dad's truck and once on my uncle and about to go out on his son. 

 

See point is they my have the tech and flashy crap but what good is it? It all falls apart and it feels really cheap. They have quantity over quality. Quality and materials used in those trucks are just bad. They went back to GMC and Chevy. My dad bought a Denali my uncle a sierra and his son a Silverado. And I still have my Silverado. 

[OnTheReel]

The previous generation single cab short box Ram with the Hemi was a beast. There isn’t one to give them credit for this time around, and I don’t know if there will be, or if they are pulling a GM and basically icing the regular cabs out. I could understand if they did, because I just never see them around here. 

 

My GM loyalty aside, which would have been extremely hard to overcome, having the 5.7 8 speed as the top engine option pretty much made my mind up against Ram after driving the Chevy. If GM “phoned in” the T1 interior, FCA most definitely phoned in their powertrains which stand nearly unchanged and returning horrible economy, even with the silly e-torque.

 

I would also argue they phoned in the exterior styling. From the front it looks like an over-inflated Mustang, and from every other angle it looks nearly the same as the one they’ve sold since 2009. It is just boring. And yet GM gets crap for making the interior familiar looking... 

 

Ram of course offers some neat features, but I also will note that many of it’s “party tricks” have been well documented as problematic and even more trouble than they are worth. When I was still briefly on the fence, people on the Ram message boards were coming right out and saying, “don’t get the 12” screen, it doesn’t work. And don’t get the pano roof, it leaks. And the 19 speaker stereo? Not so great”...

 

Well, shit. What’s really distinctive then? The Quilted Northern interior trimmings? Fine, but it’s hard to ignore the signs that FCA is just loading the Ram up with a bunch of cheap crap to give you the illusion of getting more for your money. I’d rather have less frills, and more function and longevity out of what’s there. There’s no free lunches out there.

[the wanderer]

44 minutes ago, HondaHawkGT said:

 

More powerful Hemi yet when Car and Driver tested both a 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 and a 2019 Silverado 5.3, practically every acceleration test between the two were a tie. It's a little sad that the best engine you can get in a Ram 1500 can't even out-accelerate a 5.3.

Also, MDS is no more reliable than the Gen V engines with AFM. The fact that GM sells 3 or 4 times as many AFM engines as FCA does MDS engines helps skew the perception of relative reliability a lot. The dash shift knob in the Ram is the most effeminate shifter in the truck world. Not to mention it's just another thing cluttering up the dash. I'll take the "1950's" column shifter any day. Air suspension? Ram's Air Ride system is a total joke. Anyone living in the north knows just what garbage Air Ride is. They freeze up when temps dip below zero and the system starts blowing fuses, and you get to drive your truck to the dealer, with the front suspension totally deflated and riding on the bump stops while the back end is so overinflated it's like stacking a bunch of add-a-leafs under the rear axle. The whole system usually has to be replaced to fix it and usually it's a long wait for parts since it's such a common occurrence. Air ride is a bandaid to fix Ram's payload problem. It's funny actually. Ram proudly proclaims they massively improved payload ratings, yet most Laramie and Limiteds still average 1,500 lbs or less payload capacity in a 7100 lb GVWR truck. Car and Driver did a comparison between a 2019 Ram Limited, F-150 Limited, and a Silverado High Country. The Ram with a 7100 lb GVWR had a pathetic 990 lb payload capacity. Even the F-150 with a 6,750 lb GVWR still had an 1,100 lb payload capacity. That Ram's 10,300 lb tow rating isn't too useful when you barely have enough payload for the tongue weight after your family climbs in.

 

Couple things here; gear ratio is important. The Ram with 3.21 gearing (like 95% of Rams sold) is meant more for MPG, for serious power you get the 3.92 rear end which is more more powerful. Not sure about the Chevy, but it's probably geared higher (3.50's?)

 

Also the 5.7 is like only 1 second slower than the GMC with the 6.2.

 

And then also make sure you look at the weight of the trucks; because a loaded up Ram Limited is a heavy pig (all those options like massive sun roof, air suspension, etorque, you know, all the tech and features you can't get on the Chevy??) and compare weight vs weight.

 

That's also the problem with the payload. My Big Horn has 1800 pounds of payload, it has few options. A loaded limited can indeed drop down to 1000 or less. Don't bag on the Limited for heaving extra weight, when the reason for that weight is due to features you can't get on the Chevy!

 

Some people do indeed have trouble with the air suspension, which is one reason I did not get it in my truck; before you start gloating, my uncle has a yukon with air and it has blown out so many times (2, 3?) that he doesn't bother fixing it anymore.

 

There is no payload problem with the Ram. The default coil suspension can pull their max tow rating, you don't need air to get to max tow rating on the Rams.

 

So if you can put down the Kool Aid long enough to take a breath, you might realize there are pros and cons, both trucks are excellent, and it's a great time to be a truck buyer these days!

[KARNUT]

Several of my friends and family members have Rams or dodge Chrysler products. Enough to get a feel of the product. Some with over 200K miles. Same with Ford and GM. Nobody seems to be blowing the other away with reliability or problems. I have an old Chevy I wouldn’t part with. My brother and dad have old Rams and Fords. The one that’s required the least up keep is a 17 year old Acura. If I had a choice I’d take my brothers one owner little red express truck off his hands.


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[HondaHawkGT]

1 hour ago, the wanderer said:

 

Couple things here; gear ratio is important. The Ram with 3.21 gearing (like 95% of Rams sold) is meant more for MPG, for serious power you get the 3.92 rear end which is more more powerful. Not sure about the Chevy, but it's probably geared higher (3.50's?)

 

Also the 5.7 is like only 1 second slower than the GMC with the 6.2.

 

And then also make sure you look at the weight of the trucks; because a loaded up Ram Limited is a heavy pig (all those options like massive sun roof, air suspension, etorque, you know, all the tech and features you can't get on the Chevy??) and compare weight vs weight.

 

That's also the problem with the payload. My Big Horn has 1800 pounds of payload, it has few options. A loaded limited can indeed drop down to 1000 or less. Don't bag on the Limited for heaving extra weight, when the reason for that weight is due to features you can't get on the Chevy!

 

Some people do indeed have trouble with the air suspension, which is one reason I did not get it in my truck; before you start gloating, my uncle has a yukon with air and it has blown out so many times (2, 3?) that he doesn't bother fixing it anymore.

 

There is no payload problem with the Ram. The default coil suspension can pull their max tow rating, you don't need air to get to max tow rating on the Rams.

 

So if you can put down the Kool Aid long enough to take a breath, you might realize there are pros and cons, both trucks are excellent, and it's a great time to be a truck buyer these days!

 The Silverado RST they tested had 3.23's and the 8-speed.

 

That's possible. It doesn't help that for 2019, the only trims that you could get a 6.2 in are 300 to 400 lbs heavier. For 2020, trims like the RST will offer the option of the 6.2 and 10-speed. Those trucks will be a fair amount faster than the 2019's.

 

The 2019 Ram that I cited that's identical to the 2019 Silverado RST 5.3 was a Laramie. Of course a heavier truck is going to be slow. That's the problem with the 2019 Ram 1500. They barely cut any weight out of it. That's why a 7100 lb GVWR 2019 Ram 1500 Limited only had 990 lbs of payload capacity. It's a bloated pig. Sure you get a bunch of features. Heavy features that turn it into a truck-shaped car that's terrible at actually being used as a truck. A full-size truck should have more than 990 lbs of payload capacity. I guess it's technically an improvement over the previous Ram, which in a CCSB Limited trim with the EcoDiesel and Ram Box, only had a payload rating of approximately 960 lbs. 

 

You Big Horn is at the high end of the payload scale if it has 1800 lbs of payload capacity. The highest I've seen in person in a 2019 Big Horn was 1710 lbs and that truck barely had any extra options. But then again, that's the problem with all the praise for the Ram's interior. If you want the pretty interior and extra features that's earning all the praise from car reviewers, the truck ends up weighing so much that it ruins the capability of the truck. The Big Horn's interior is okay, but it's not miles better than other brands. The version with bench seats that I was in had a fold down middle seat that was embarrassingly cheap with the way the cup holds were surrounded by cloth covered cushions. The window controls on  the door looked like a part salvaged from a Dodge Nitro.  Some areas inside had good polish, while other areas left a lot to be desired. Maybe it's all the gloss black trim pieces. I'm not a fan of gloss black trim pieces, which usually look terrible after they're covered in swirl marks and scratches in few years. 

 

Your uncle's Yukon having air suspension problems isn't a surprise. Manufacturers have tried to use air ride systems for decades and they've never worked right or held up. That's why it's so stupid that Ram keeps trying to use it in their half-tons. The system sucks.

 

Ram had a very big payload problem in the DS gen truck. Most of the popular trims and configurations had much lower payload capacities than comparable Ford and GM trucks. Ram went for the softest ride possible and that means compromise, which usually meant soft spring rates and low payload capacities. Even when the truck wasn't maxed out on payload, the suspension sag was so bad that they looked like they were about to do a wheelie with a decent amount of weight in the bed. The new DT gen truck uses progressive rate coil springs to help change the balance of soft ride vs payload capacity. It helps a little but we'll have to see how those progressive rate coil springs hold up over time. The fact remains that the 2019 Ram 1500 still falls short in most cases on payload ratings, which might not be a problem for the crowd that just drives around with an empty bed the entire time they own it. But for those that want to use their Ram to pull a travel trailer, the tongue weight is going to be a problem. I've see it first hand. Even a Laramie trim is averaging just 1500 lbs of payload. 

 

It's not about being a fanboy or drinking koolaid. These are facts. Unfortunately most reviewers don't care about stuff like that. They just jump in and rave about the interior and ride quality the entire time. That's nice but you don't get those characteristics in a truck without losing it somewhere else. In Ram's case, it means the 5.7 struggles to keep up with the competiton, the fuel economy sucks for a modern truck in  2019, and the capability of the truck is typically much lower than comparable GVWR trucks sold by Ford and GM. Unfortunately for a lot of guys over at 5th Gen Rams, they don't realize that until their dream truck is brought home and they decide to look at the yellow sticker. They expect their truck to be rated like this:

 

And they end up with this:

 

 

 

 

[HondaHawkGT]

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Are you accounting for all the 5.7s in cars. They all have the cylinder deactivation too. Will the single cab 5.7 out run the 5.3? I like to see times with the 5.7 single cab with the 392 gear. You have to give them credit for all the different hot rod options they offer.


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Yeah they sell a decent amount of cars with MDS, but not enough to make up the huge difference. GM sells a ton of Silverados, Sierras, Suburbans, Tahoes, Yukons, Escalades, Corvettes, and Camaros with a Gen V AFM engine in them. The 5.7 Hemi is used in the Ram, Challenger, Charger, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Durango, and 300C. But with vehicles like the Charger, Durango, and 300, a lot of the cars they sold have the 3.6 V6, not the 5.7 Hemi. 

 

I definitely give FCA credit for putting out a lot of fun vehicles with V8 engines. If only GM was so willing to make fun, V8-powered cars.

[the wanderer]

The upper trims of the GM's don't do too well in payload either; quick google search is saying 1500 pounds there too if it's fully optioned up. There is no doubt the suspension on the Chevy can take more weight (leafs are better vs coils), they Chevy has always excelled in payload, but that's not the end of the story either; the Ram is more composed while towing, more control because the suspension is less squirrely. So again, pros and cons. And personally, I would never tow in excess of 8000 pounds in any half ton, that's what a 3/4 ton is for.

 

The Hemi is not struggling compared to the competition, I don't know where you get that idea from. We've already established that the Ram's are heavier (on average) than the GM, one major reason being the extra (heavy) options that you can get on them like etorque, massive sunroof, and air suspension etc. So the Hemi is pushing more weight. In my Big Horn I just did a highway run and the MPG was still climbing (rather, "decreasing" because here in Canada we measure in l/100 km where lower = better) while I had to stop due to reaching my destination. 9.7 L/100 km, which is 24 mpg. Engine isn't fully broken in, and part of the time I had MDS disabled because I'm trying to figure out how much difference it makes.

 

You can't really start picking apart the Ram interior without addressing that massive drab, black slab in the middle of your own dash, and the 1990's gauge cluster. No doubt the Ram is not perfect, but overall, the fact is the Ram interior has set the bar.

 

Speaking of surprises when taking the truck home, I wonder how many GM owners figure out after the fact that "4x4" no longer means you automatically get a low transfer case (you need Z71 or X31 package)?

 

Look, I'm not denigrating the GM twins by any means. I like those trucks just as much as I do my Ram. I'm just saying some of you guys need some perspective, and the Ram excels in some areas and needs some attention in other areas, just like the GM twins.

 

I looked long and hard at both, in the end the purchase cost was what swayed me in the direction of Ram.

[HondaHawkGT]

5 hours ago, the wanderer said:

The upper trims of the GM's don't do too well in payload either; quick google search is saying 1500 pounds there too if it's fully optioned up. There is no doubt the suspension on the Chevy can take more weight (leafs are better vs coils), they Chevy has always excelled in payload, but that's not the end of the story either; the Ram is more composed while towing, more control because the suspension is less squirrely. So again, pros and cons. And personally, I would never tow in excess of 8000 pounds in any half ton, that's what a 3/4 ton is for.

 

The Hemi is not struggling compared to the competition, I don't know where you get that idea from. We've already established that the Ram's are heavier (on average) than the GM, one major reason being the extra (heavy) options that you can get on them like etorque, massive sunroof, and air suspension etc. So the Hemi is pushing more weight. In my Big Horn I just did a highway run and the MPG was still climbing (rather, "decreasing" because here in Canada we measure in l/100 km where lower = better) while I had to stop due to reaching my destination. 9.7 L/100 km, which is 24 mpg. Engine isn't fully broken in, and part of the time I had MDS disabled because I'm trying to figure out how much difference it makes.

 

You can't really start picking apart the Ram interior without addressing that massive drab, black slab in the middle of your own dash, and the 1990's gauge cluster. No doubt the Ram is not perfect, but overall, the fact is the Ram interior has set the bar.

Yeah a fully optioned Silverado High Country still has over  500 lbs more payload than a loaded Ram 1500 Limited of the same GVWR. That's a huge amount. Admittedly it's at the expense of interior design and features, but the 2019 GM trucks are heavily geared towards lower prices and better fuel economy, not pretending to be a truck-shaped car with a Cadillac interior. 990 lbs of payload essentially makes the "truck" useless as a truck.

 

I have never had a problem with the rear end being so "squirrely" (lateral instability) that it was a problem. Trucks have been using leaf spring suspensions for nearly 100 years without an issue. I'm not interested in settling for Ram's multi-link rear suspension just to solve a normal characteristic of a truck suspension. Honestly, I've seen many Ram 1500's with the multi-link rear suspension that were used to haul heavy loads and tow a lot of trailers, and over time the bushings end up wearing enough to develop a "loose" sensation as the links no longer maintain the axle's position. Same with the rear coil springs "relaxing" due to fatigue. Hence why I consider the jury to be out on the progressive coil springs Ram chose in an attempt to improve the weak payload rating, while preserving as much of the soft ride as possible.

 

Everybody sets their own personal limit for what they think their truck can handle. I've watched guys use half-ton trucks to pull 22k lbs with nothing more than a pintle hitch. But when it comes to tongue weight and how it affects a truck's balance, I'm not interest in a truck with a suspension that's so soft and quickly overloaded that it struggles to handle much more than 1500 lbs.

 

Sorry, but the old Hemi is absolutely struggling to keep up with the competition. Yeah, it is pushing more weight. But that weight is intrinsically tied to the truck it's in. There's absolutely no point in comparing engine power without keeping in mind how much the truck it's in weighs. Until Ram cuts a few hundred more pounds out of their 1500's, it NEEDs a 5.7 just to keep up with a 5.3 or 2.7 EB. Car and Driver has demonstrated that it struggled to just equal a 2019 5.3 truck with 3.23's. 3.92's would help the 5.7 but it's still far behind the more powerful engine options out there, and at a significant cost in terms of fuel economy.

It's slower than a 2.7 Ecoboost. (But more capable than a 2.7 EB)

It's slower than a 5.0 Coyote.

It's slower than a 3.5 EcoBoost.

It's slower than a GM 6.2.

Every truck manufacturer has multiple levels of engines to choose from. The Ram's top choice can barely muster a tie against a 5.3, when both trucks are running the same axle ratio. It's important to remember that the 5.3 is an engine that prioritizes efficiency over max power. With 3.92's, the Ram in many cases would edge out the 5.3, but then you're stuck with a truck that gets noticeably worse fuel economy (sub 20-mpg highway) than both the 5.3 and 6.2. A 2018-19 F-150 5.0 Coyote with 3.55's will average approx 23 mpg. Even with 3.55's, a decently equipped 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 truck is going to struggle with fuel economy.

 

The GM gauge cluster sucks. It's a downgrade from the previous truck. BUT the rest of the truck more than makes up for it. I'm honestly fine with the rest of the interior. The seats are good, the riding position is the best it's even been, MyLink works great as usual, and the AC can cool the truck down in minutes even when the truck has been sitting in the sun all day in 95 degree temps. Plus the shifter is where god intended, on the steering column.

 

The 1-speed transfer case on trucks with the max tow package might bother some guys, but I know just as many guys that don't even know what 4-low is really useful for. Most half-ton owners don't even bother to ever use 4-low. The people most interested in a Ram because of it's nice interior design and soft ride, will NEVER bother to shift into 4-low. A few clueless owners might shift into it, even if it's because they think 4-low is the best choice for driving through 2 inches of snow. You'll get a handful of guys on here that say they use 4-low constantly, but for the guys that never leave pavement because they only use their truck to tow or go to work and back, 4-low isn't particularly useful. I used 4-low in my last truck just a few times in the 5 years I owned it. I won't judge the terrain management system that helps make up for the lack of a 2sp transfer case because I haven't driven one. It might perform fine for all I know.

 

" I'm just saying some of you guys need some perspective, and the Ram excels in some areas and needs some attention in other areas, just like the GM twins."

 

We all have the internet. We don't need a guy from 5th Gen Rams to come over here to try and "lead us to the promised land". There is no shortage of truck reviews available online. Plus we see all brands of trucks out in the real world. We know what trucks are out there.  Unfortunately, most reviewers are really only concerned with reviewing trucks based entirely on interior design, gimmicky features, and ride quality.  They have zero interest in delving into the characteristics of full-size trucks that are the most important when using trucks for truck duties. Most don't even understand the pros and cons of engineering choices in most trucks.  I can't speak for anyone else here but I closely watch and evaluate all new trucks well before buying a new one. I honestly haven't been impressed with the Ram 1500 since they went to a multi-link rear suspension.They decided to stop trying to compete head-up against Ford and GM on capability, so they decided to compete based on more car-like attributes like soft riding suspensions and premium interiors, hoping to pull buyers in that don't use trucks to do much more than pull a small boat, if tow anything at all. If I wanted a soft ride and didn't have anything to tow, I would honestly go for a Ram 1500. I didn't because payload ratings and towing performance are more important to me than a soft ride. I want a truck that doesn't feel like it's going to bust a nut with the tongue weight typical of a travel trailer. I want to be able to pull a travel trailer AND haul the family and their stuff in the the truck.

[HondaHawkGT]

8 hours ago, the wanderer said:

 My Big Horn has 1800 pounds of payload, it has few options.

 

Your truck has 1751 lbs of payload. I mean, 1800 if you round up 49 lbs, which is admittedly pretty small, but legally if you're pulled over and forced to scale in, the law isn't going to let it slide.

 

 

[KARNUT]

 
Yeah they sell a decent amount of cars with MDS, but not enough to make up the huge difference. GM sells a ton of Silverados, Sierras, Suburbans, Tahoes, Yukons, Escalades, Corvettes, and Camaros with a Gen V AFM engine in them. The 5.7 Hemi is used in the Ram, Challenger, Charger, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Durango, and 300C. But with vehicles like the Charger, Durango, and 300, a lot of the cars they sold have the 3.6 V6, not the 5.7 Hemi. 
 
I definitely give FCA credit for putting out a lot of fun vehicles with V8 engines. If only GM was so willing to make fun, V8-powered cars.

That may be true but don’t forget Ram has the 6.4 hemi that has cylinder deactivation. I read recently Rams coming out with a hellcat truck and a scat pack type truck. As far as 1/2 ton Rams being less heavy duty, that seems to be what most people want. A Cadillac truck. I think they took the truck out of truck 10 years ago.


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[the wanderer]

3 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

Yeah a fully optioned Silverado High Country still has over  500 lbs more payload than a loaded Ram 1500 Limited of the same GVWR. That's a huge amount. Admittedly it's at the expense of interior design and features, but the 2019 GM trucks are heavily geared towards lower prices and better fuel economy, not pretending to be a truck-shaped car with a Cadillac interior. 990 lbs of payload essentially makes the "truck" useless as a truck.

 

I have never had a problem with the rear end being so "squirrely" (lateral instability) that it was a problem. Trucks have been using leaf spring suspensions for nearly 100 years without an issue. I'm not interested in settling for Ram's multi-link rear suspension just to solve a normal characteristic of a truck suspension. Honestly, I've seen many Ram 1500's with the multi-link rear suspension that were used to haul heavy loads and tow a lot of trailers, and over time the bushings end up wearing enough to develop a "loose" sensation as the links no longer maintain the axle's position. Same with the rear coil springs "relaxing" due to fatigue. Hence why I consider the jury to be out on the progressive coil springs Ram chose in an attempt to improve the weak payload rating, while preserving as much of the soft ride as possible.

 

Everybody sets their own personal limit for what they think their truck can handle. I've watched guys use half-ton trucks to pull 22k lbs with nothing more than a pintle hitch. But when it comes to tongue weight and how it affects a truck's balance, I'm not interest in a truck with a suspension that's so soft and quickly overloaded that it struggles to handle much more than 1500 lbs.

 

Sorry, but the old Hemi is absolutely struggling to keep up with the competition. Yeah, it is pushing more weight. But that weight is intrinsically tied to the truck it's in. There's absolutely no point in comparing engine power without keeping in mind how much the truck it's in weighs. Until Ram cuts a few hundred more pounds out of their 1500's, it NEEDs a 5.7 just to keep up with a 5.3 or 2.7 EB. Car and Driver has demonstrated that it struggled to just equal a 2019 5.3 truck with 3.23's. 3.92's would help the 5.7 but it's still far behind the more powerful engine options out there, and at a significant cost in terms of fuel economy.

It's slower than a 2.7 Ecoboost. (But more capable than a 2.7 EB)

It's slower than a 5.0 Coyote.

It's slower than a 3.5 EcoBoost.

It's slower than a GM 6.2.

Every truck manufacturer has multiple levels of engines to choose from. The Ram's top choice can barely muster a tie against a 5.3, when both trucks are running the same axle ratio. It's important to remember that the 5.3 is an engine that prioritizes efficiency over max power. With 3.92's, the Ram in many cases would edge out the 5.3, but then you're stuck with a truck that gets noticeably worse fuel economy (sub 20-mpg highway) than both the 5.3 and 6.2. A 2018-19 F-150 5.0 Coyote with 3.55's will average approx 23 mpg. Even with 3.55's, a decently equipped 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 truck is going to struggle with fuel economy.

 

The GM gauge cluster sucks. It's a downgrade from the previous truck. BUT the rest of the truck more than makes up for it. I'm honestly fine with the rest of the interior. The seats are good, the riding position is the best it's even been, MyLink works great as usual, and the AC can cool the truck down in minutes even when the truck has been sitting in the sun all day in 95 degree temps. Plus the shifter is where god intended, on the steering column.

 

The 1-speed transfer case on trucks with the max tow package might bother some guys, but I know just as many guys that don't even know what 4-low is really useful for. Most half-ton owners don't even bother to ever use 4-low. The people most interested in a Ram because of it's nice interior design and soft ride, will NEVER bother to shift into 4-low. A few clueless owners might shift into it, even if it's because they think 4-low is the best choice for driving through 2 inches of snow. You'll get a handful of guys on here that say they use 4-low constantly, but for the guys that never leave pavement because they only use their truck to tow or go to work and back, 4-low isn't particularly useful. I used 4-low in my last truck just a few times in the 5 years I owned it. I won't judge the terrain management system that helps make up for the lack of a 2sp transfer case because I haven't driven one. It might perform fine for all I know.

 

" I'm just saying some of you guys need some perspective, and the Ram excels in some areas and needs some attention in other areas, just like the GM twins."

 

We all have the internet. We don't need a guy from 5th Gen Rams to come over here to try and "lead us to the promised land". There is no shortage of truck reviews available online. Plus we see all brands of trucks out in the real world. We know what trucks are out there.  Unfortunately, most reviewers are really only concerned with reviewing trucks based entirely on interior design, gimmicky features, and ride quality.  They have zero interest in delving into the characteristics of full-size trucks that are the most important when using trucks for truck duties. Most don't even understand the pros and cons of engineering choices in most trucks.  I can't speak for anyone else here but I closely watch and evaluate all new trucks well before buying a new one. I honestly haven't been impressed with the Ram 1500 since they went to a multi-link rear suspension.They decided to stop trying to compete head-up against Ford and GM on capability, so they decided to compete based on more car-like attributes like soft riding suspensions and premium interiors, hoping to pull buyers in that don't use trucks to do much more than pull a small boat, if tow anything at all. If I wanted a soft ride and didn't have anything to tow, I would honestly go for a Ram 1500. I didn't because payload ratings and towing performance are more important to me than a soft ride. I want a truck that doesn't feel like it's going to bust a nut with the tongue weight typical of a travel trailer. I want to be able to pull a travel trailer AND haul the family and their stuff in the the truck.

 

That's a lot of BS my friend. And I simply don't have the time and energy to respond to it all when it's pretty much clear you have confirmation bias and no intention of actually seeing the arguments instead of the brand.

 

But quickly; the Hemi does very well against the competiton. You say it's slow, but refuse to accept that if/when the truck it is in is slow, it's because of the heavy truck (due to heavy features) that makes the truck slower, not the actual Hemi. There is no flaw or shortcoming in the engineering of the Hemi, it's simply pushing more weight.

 

Some motor trend tests:
Hemi 0 - 60, = 6.1 seconds

Trail Boss 5.3 = 6.4 seconds

RST 5.3 = 6.6 seconds

High Country 6.2  = 6.0 seconds.

 

So the Hemi is noticeably faster than the 5.3, and only 1 second slower than Chevy's 6.2. Despite the extra weight, it performs well and is closer to the 6.2 than it is the 5.3, which is exactly what you would expect given the different displacements.

 

Despite your unreasonable hatred against Ram, they are definitely a leader in terms of tech and features. What Ram does, the others follow eventually; first to offer luxury trim, first to offer 8 speed, first to offer diesel, first to offer air; and you can bet your bottom dollar, GM WILL step up their game, eventually, by following Ram and upgrading the interior and probably the suspension as well. It's what half ton buyers want.

 

For the rest of your argument; it boils down to this: "yada yada the disadvantages of the Chevy don't bother me". Great, the disadvantage (mainly a slightly reduced payload) of the Ram doesn't bother me, and I saved lots of money. 

 

There is no doubt the Chevy and GMC are great trucks, and I would have no problem owning one. In fact I know I would love it, I actually test drove the twins, you know, and formed my own unbiased opinion unclouded by brand loyalty?

 

The bit about the "promised land" is truly funny. The purpose of my original post was to point out the confirmation bias, the seemingly silly need to try and put down Ram simply because it is selling like hot cakes and that apparently is making some of you feel worse about your own purchase, hence the need to "tear it down".

 

And if readers want to spot the confirmation bias, look for juicy phrases like this:
"They [Ram] decided to stop trying to compete head-up against Ford and GM on capability"

 

There is no arguing against a view point like that, you can't reason a man out of a viewpoint if it wasn't reason that brought him to the view point in the first place.

 

I also get that I'm probably not wanted here anymore, so I'll go. Enjoy your trucks!

[the wanderer]

4 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

 

Your truck has 1751 lbs of payload. I mean, 1800 if you round up 49 lbs, which is admittedly pretty small, but legally if you're pulled over and forced to scale in, the law isn't going to let it slide.

 

 

 

49 pounds? We are really grasping at straws now aren't we? Guess I'll have to leave my socks at home the next time I go camping.

[Moend]

On 7/2/2019 at 8:54 PM, BlackLS said:

I considered Ram before I bought my Trail Boss but after reading all of the complaints on the Ram forums about A/C problems, truck won't start, squeaky brakes, leaking sunroofs, etc I decided to stay away. I think Fiats reliability issues may be rubbing off on Ram, take a look at the chart below. Ram and Fiat are at the bottom of the list.

 

F150 was not an option for me because I just don't like the styling.

 

I like the simplicity of the Chevy interior, the Ram interior is too busy and that 12" screen would drive me nuts.

 

I won't relay on JD power (check out Scotty Kilmer channel on YouTube) it is mind boggling that Porsche is the second most reliable car after Lexus that right there trellis me this list is not what the Ave consumer after "they must have checked how reliable it is for the first 200 miles and what paint reflect better in the sun" I really done know what they check exactly but pretty sure not what we are after.