RAM sells more than Silverado for 2nd quarter

JR09country · July 6, 2019

That's a lot of BS my friend. And I simply don't have the time and energy to respond to it all when it's pretty much clear you have confirmation bias and no intention of actually seeing the arguments instead of the brand.

But quickly; the Hemi does very well against the competiton. You say it's slow, but refuse to accept that if/when the truck it is in is slow, it's because of the heavy truck (due to heavy features) that makes the truck slower, not the actual Hemi. There is no flaw or shortcoming in the engineering of the Hemi, it's simply pushing more weight.

Some motor trend tests:
Hemi 0 - 60, = 6.1 seconds
Trail Boss 5.3 = 6.4 seconds
RST 5.3 = 6.6 seconds
High Country 6.2 = 6.0 seconds.

So the Hemi is noticeably faster than the 5.3, and only 1 second slower than Chevy's 6.2. Despite the extra weight, it performs well and is closer to the 6.2 than it is the 5.3, which is exactly what you would expect given the different displacements.

Despite your unreasonable hatred against Ram, they are definitely a leader in terms of tech and features. What Ram does, the others follow eventually; first to offer luxury trim, first to offer 8 speed, first to offer diesel, first to offer air; and you can bet your bottom dollar, GM WILL step up their game, eventually, by following Ram and upgrading the interior and probably the suspension as well. It's what half ton buyers want.

For the rest of your argument; it boils down to this: "yada yada the disadvantages of the Chevy don't bother me". Great, the disadvantage (mainly a slightly reduced payload) of the Ram doesn't bother me, and I saved lots of money.

There is no doubt the Chevy and GMC are great trucks, and I would have no problem owning one. In fact I know I would love it, I actually test drove the twins, you know, and formed my own unbiased opinion unclouded by brand loyalty?

The bit about the "promised land" is truly funny. The purpose of my original post was to point out the confirmation bias, the seemingly silly need to try and put down Ram simply because it is selling like hot cakes and that apparently is making some of you feel worse about your own purchase, hence the need to "tear it down".

And if readers want to spot the confirmation bias, look for juicy phrases like this:
"They [Ram] decided to stop trying to compete head-up against Ford and GM on capability"

There is no arguing against a view point like that, you can't reason a man out of a viewpoint if it wasn't reason that brought him to the view point in the first place.

I also get that I'm probably not wanted here anymore, so I'll go. Enjoy your trucks!

The 0-60 times dont mean much when you just put "hemi". Was it a crew cab 4x4, double cab 2wd, laramie, big horn or rebel? But for having 40 more hp and ~ 30ftlbs of torque than the 5.3l it was not substantially faster than the TB, which at a minimum is rocking goodyear duratracs and a 3.23 rear end. My shocker is how slow the damn HC was, lord.

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the wanderer · July 6, 2019

7 minutes ago, JR09country said:

The 0-60 times dont mean much when you just put "hemi". Was it a crew cab 4x4, double cab 2wd, laramie, big horn or rebel? But for having 40 more hp and ~ 30ftlbs of torque than the 5.3l it was not substantially faster than the TB, which at a minimum is rocking goodyear duratracs and a 3.23 rear end. My shocker is how slow the damn HC was, lord.

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It was a Laramie 4x4 crew cab short box.

mookdoc6 · July 6, 2019

7 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

Yeah a fully optioned Silverado High Country still has over 500 lbs more payload than a loaded Ram 1500 Limited of the same GVWR. That's a huge amount. Admittedly it's at the expense of interior design and features, but the 2019 GM trucks are heavily geared towards lower prices and better fuel economy, not pretending to be a truck-shaped car with a Cadillac interior. 990 lbs of payload essentially makes the "truck" useless as a truck.

I have never had a problem with the rear end being so "squirrely" (lateral instability) that it was a problem. Trucks have been using leaf spring suspensions for nearly 100 years without an issue. I'm not interested in settling for Ram's multi-link rear suspension just to solve a normal characteristic of a truck suspension. Honestly, I've seen many Ram 1500's with the multi-link rear suspension that were used to haul heavy loads and tow a lot of trailers, and over time the bushings end up wearing enough to develop a "loose" sensation as the links no longer maintain the axle's position. Same with the rear coil springs "relaxing" due to fatigue. Hence why I consider the jury to be out on the progressive coil springs Ram chose in an attempt to improve the weak payload rating, while preserving as much of the soft ride as possible.

Everybody sets their own personal limit for what they think their truck can handle. I've watched guys use half-ton trucks to pull 22k lbs with nothing more than a pintle hitch. But when it comes to tongue weight and how it affects a truck's balance, I'm not interest in a truck with a suspension that's so soft and quickly overloaded that it struggles to handle much more than 1500 lbs.

Sorry, but the old Hemi is absolutely struggling to keep up with the competition. Yeah, it is pushing more weight. But that weight is intrinsically tied to the truck it's in. There's absolutely no point in comparing engine power without keeping in mind how much the truck it's in weighs. Until Ram cuts a few hundred more pounds out of their 1500's, it NEEDs a 5.7 just to keep up with a 5.3 or 2.7 EB. Car and Driver has demonstrated that it struggled to just equal a 2019 5.3 truck with 3.23's. 3.92's would help the 5.7 but it's still far behind the more powerful engine options out there, and at a significant cost in terms of fuel economy.

It's slower than a 2.7 Ecoboost. (But more capable than a 2.7 EB)

It's slower than a 5.0 Coyote.

It's slower than a 3.5 EcoBoost.

It's slower than a GM 6.2.

Every truck manufacturer has multiple levels of engines to choose from. The Ram's top choice can barely muster a tie against a 5.3, when both trucks are running the same axle ratio. It's important to remember that the 5.3 is an engine that prioritizes efficiency over max power. With 3.92's, the Ram in many cases would edge out the 5.3, but then you're stuck with a truck that gets noticeably worse fuel economy (sub 20-mpg highway) than both the 5.3 and 6.2. A 2018-19 F-150 5.0 Coyote with 3.55's will average approx 23 mpg. Even with 3.55's, a decently equipped 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 truck is going to struggle with fuel economy.

The GM gauge cluster sucks. It's a downgrade from the previous truck. BUT the rest of the truck more than makes up for it. I'm honestly fine with the rest of the interior. The seats are good, the riding position is the best it's even been, MyLink works great as usual, and the AC can cool the truck down in minutes even when the truck has been sitting in the sun all day in 95 degree temps. Plus the shifter is where god intended, on the steering column.

The 1-speed transfer case on trucks with the max tow package might bother some guys, but I know just as many guys that don't even know what 4-low is really useful for. Most half-ton owners don't even bother to ever use 4-low. The people most interested in a Ram because of it's nice interior design and soft ride, will NEVER bother to shift into 4-low. A few clueless owners might shift into it, even if it's because they think 4-low is the best choice for driving through 2 inches of snow. You'll get a handful of guys on here that say they use 4-low constantly, but for the guys that never leave pavement because they only use their truck to tow or go to work and back, 4-low isn't particularly useful. I used 4-low in my last truck just a few times in the 5 years I owned it. I won't judge the terrain management system that helps make up for the lack of a 2sp transfer case because I haven't driven one. It might perform fine for all I know.

" I'm just saying some of you guys need some perspective, and the Ram excels in some areas and needs some attention in other areas, just like the GM twins."

We all have the internet. We don't need a guy from 5th Gen Rams to come over here to try and "lead us to the promised land". There is no shortage of truck reviews available online. Plus we see all brands of trucks out in the real world. We know what trucks are out there. Unfortunately, most reviewers are really only concerned with reviewing trucks based entirely on interior design, gimmicky features, and ride quality. They have zero interest in delving into the characteristics of full-size trucks that are the most important when using trucks for truck duties. Most don't even understand the pros and cons of engineering choices in most trucks. I can't speak for anyone else here but I closely watch and evaluate all new trucks well before buying a new one. I honestly haven't been impressed with the Ram 1500 since they went to a multi-link rear suspension.They decided to stop trying to compete head-up against Ford and GM on capability, so they decided to compete based on more car-like attributes like soft riding suspensions and premium interiors, hoping to pull buyers in that don't use trucks to do much more than pull a small boat, if tow anything at all. If I wanted a soft ride and didn't have anything to tow, I would honestly go for a Ram 1500. I didn't because payload ratings and towing performance are more important to me than a soft ride. I want a truck that doesn't feel like it's going to bust a nut with the tongue weight typical of a travel trailer. I want to be able to pull a travel trailer AND haul the family and their stuff in the the truck.

Good write up as most general public just go ohhh...RAM..NICE! Anyway, just go to bed of truck and looks no farther which truck was built as a truck? Should take all but 2 minutes to understand which one is built to work and the other to play?

HondaHawkGT · July 6, 2019

2 hours ago, the wanderer said:

The bit about the "promised land" is truly funny. The purpose of my original post was to point out the confirmation bias, the seemingly silly need to try and put down Ram simply because it is selling like hot cakes and that apparently is making some of you feel worse about your own purchase, hence the need to "tear it down".

Take a step back and think about what you're doing right now. You're so intent on supposedly showing us our own supposed confirmation bias that you don't realize you're guilty of it yourself. Like I said, a lot of us are already well-informed on how trucks compare. Many of us watch TFL Truck's videos and read reviews. I was in a 2019 Ram before I even test drove a Silverado. There ARE downsides to the way Ram designs their trucks, there ARE downsides to Ram choosing to using outdated engines, there ARE downsides to FCA quality, etc. C&D is doing a long term test of a 2019 Ram 1500 Limited. So far it's been an electrical nightmare. The problems that they're having are identical the all the issues owners on 5thgenrams have been reporting.

2 hours ago, the wanderer said:

That's a lot of BS my friend. And I simply don't have the time and energy to respond to it all when it's pretty much clear you have confirmation bias and no intention of actually seeing the arguments instead of the brand.

So you don't have the energy to refute what I said and I'm just biased, yet you go on to write multiple paragraphs.

2 hours ago, the wanderer said:

the seemingly silly need to try and put down Ram simply because it is selling like hot cakes and that apparently is making some of you feel worse about your own purchase, hence the need to "tear it down".

Ram sales are up but you have no way of showing where those sales are coming from because the sales numbers the combined sales of the Ram HD's, 2019 Ram Classic, and 2019 Ram 1500. Many analysts attribute Ram's sudden sales increase to the fact that they're essentially selling twice as many Ram half-ton models as they used to. They are pumping out a ton of old body style Ram Classics and they're priced extra cheap.

2 hours ago, the wanderer said:

49 pounds? We are really grasping at straws now aren't we? Guess I'll have to leave my socks at home the next time I go camping.

Even I said, yeah it's just 49 lbs. It's just the fact that you KNEW exactly what your truck's payload rating was and you felt the need to round it up to make it sound as big as possible.

HondaHawkGT · July 6, 2019

4 hours ago, the wanderer said:

Some motor trend tests:
Hemi 0 - 60, = 6.1 seconds

Trail Boss 5.3 = 6.4 seconds

RST 5.3 = 6.6 seconds

High Country 6.2 = 6.0 seconds.

So the Hemi is noticeably faster than the 5.3, and only 1 second slower than Chevy's 6.2. Despite the extra weight, it performs well and is closer to the 6.2 than it is the 5.3, which is exactly what you would expect given the different displacements.

The Ram 5.7 is closer to a 2019 Silverado 5.3 than it is to a Silverado 6.2.

the wanderer · July 6, 2019

34 minutes ago, HondaHawkGT said:

Take a step back and think about what you're doing right now. You're so intent on supposedly showing us our own supposed confirmation bias that you don't realize you're guilty of it yourself. Like I said, a lot of us are already well-informed on how trucks compare. Many of us watch TFL Truck's videos and read reviews. I was in a 2019 Ram before I even test drove a Silverado. There ARE downsides to the way Ram designs their trucks, there ARE downsides to Ram choosing to using outdated engines, there ARE downsides to FCA quality, etc. C&D is doing a long term test of a 2019 Ram 1500 Limited. So far it's been an electrical nightmare. The problems that they're having are identical the all the issues owners on 5thgenrams have been reporting.

So you don't have the energy to refute what I said and I'm just biased, yet you go on to write multiple paragraphs.

Ram sales are up but you have no way of showing where those sales are coming from because the sales numbers the combined sales of the Ram HD's, 2019 Ram Classic, and 2019 Ram 1500. Many analysts attribute Ram's sudden sales increase to the fact that they're essentially selling twice as many Ram half-ton models as they used to. They are pumping out a ton of old body style Ram Classics and they're priced extra cheap.

Even I said, yeah it's just 49 lbs. It's just the fact that you KNEW exactly what your truck's payload rating was and you felt the need to round it up to make it sound as big as possible.

The 1800 was rounded to a nice whole number, like we were taught in elementary school. You're welcome to think I was somehow trying to hide something, but that dog don't hunt. (and 49 pounds is a rounding error to anyone who cares unless you're grasping at straws and trying to make something where there isn't). I was very clear in my original post comparing the pros and cons of each, I have nothing to hide nor do I think the Ram is "the better truck for everyone". I've also cleary stated the Chevy has the advantage in terms of payload capacity. Nothing hidden there.

"And the fact that you KNEW the 49 pounds was irrelevant but felt the need to list it anyway shows just how sad your argument has become". Grasping at straws.

You're also listing only one reviewers 0 to 60, I listed the numbers from motor trend.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/silverado-1500/2019/2019-chevrolet-silverado-first-test-review/

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ram/1500/2019/2019-ram-1500-laramie-57l-first-test-review/

Again, that hemi is also pushing more weight since it's a heavier truck than the Chevy, so VERY CLEARLY the hemi is competitive and fits in right between the two chevy's, like you would expect given the displacements of each. Funny that you're still arguing against facts, when the subjective has so much more room for opinion.

I don't have any idea why the Ram is outselling the chevy, nor I care. Again I was up front about this from the very beginning, and simply gave MY reason for going to Ram; cost.

As for lack of energy to continue arguing; at a certain point it just gets stupid, you know? I've said all I can, with an attempt at being as unbiased as I possibly can, you clearly don't like Ram and you're welcome to your opinion. That dislike (which is stupid, btw, you can't go wrong with any of the big 3) is why I'm stopping, because it's clear this won't get any further. And I AM in a chevy forum, the more a Ram owner argues here, the more he gets written off as just trolling (and of course the same would be true if you argued in the Ram forum).

HondaHawkGT · July 6, 2019

5 minutes ago, the wanderer said:

You're also listing only one reviewers 0 to 60, I listed the numbers from motor trend.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/silverado-1500/2019/2019-chevrolet-silverado-first-test-review/

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ram/1500/2019/2019-ram-1500-laramie-57l-first-test-review/

Again, that hemi is also pushing more weight since it's a heavier truck than the Chevy, so VERY CLEARLY the hemi is competitive and fits in right between the two chevy's, like you would expect given the displacements of each. Funny that you're still arguing against facts, when the subjective has so much more room for opinion.

I didn't use Motortrend's numbers for a very good reason. Read the note at the bottom of the Silverado article.

"All trucks were tested in extreme-heat conditions, and performance was adversely affected. We will attempt to retest and update these results at a later date."

As you can see by Car and Driver's results, the heat had a very noticeable effect on MT's numbers.

JR09country · July 6, 2019

The Ram 5.7 is closer to a 2019 Silverado 5.3 than it is to a Silverado 6.2.

Nice, glad i can see curb weights on those charts. I know its C&D compared to the other stats of motortrend but it shows how the 0-60 times can vary depending on temperature and altitude. The 5.4 seconds for the 6.2L seems way more accurate than the 6.0 on the motortrend test.

I just saw the stopping distances between the rst and the high country, thats a pretty big difference for a truck that weighs more and most likely has 22" rims on it. I wonder if tires made that big of a difference.

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Racindave · July 6, 2019

14 and 13 second quarter mile times in these trucks is crazy to me. They are loaded and heavy.

04SierraSLT · July 6, 2019

34 minutes ago, Racindave said:

14 and 13 second quarter mile times in these trucks is crazy to me. They are loaded and heavy.

25yrs ago, that was fast for a muscle car of that era (Fox body, SN95, 4th gens, etc)

Racindave · July 6, 2019

45 minutes ago, 04SierraSLT said:

25yrs ago, that was fast for a muscle car of that era (Fox body, SN95, 4th gens, etc)

And some of those that was with mods. Of course you could buy 3 fox bodies for the price of a high country.....lol

the wanderer · July 6, 2019

3 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

I didn't use Motortrend's numbers for a very good reason. Read the note at the bottom of the Silverado article.

"All trucks were tested in extreme-heat conditions, and performance was adversely affected. We will attempt to retest and update these results at a later date."

As you can see by Car and Driver's results, the heat had a very noticeable effect on MT's numbers.

No, you didn't use those numbers because they show you're wrong. Trucks need to work, no excuses for a little warm weather.

HondaHawkGT · July 6, 2019

38 minutes ago, the wanderer said:

No, you didn't use those numbers because they show you're wrong. Trucks need to work, no excuses for a little warm weather.

LMAO ok

HondaHawkGT · July 6, 2019

3 hours ago, JR09country said:

Nice, glad i can see curb weights on those charts. I know its C&D compared to the other stats of motortrend but it shows how the 0-60 times can vary depending on temperature and altitude. The 5.4 seconds for the 6.2L seems way more accurate than the 6.0 on the motortrend test.

I just saw the stopping distances between the rst and the high country, thats a pretty big difference for a truck that weighs more and most likely has 22" rims on it. I wonder if tires made that big of a difference.

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Yeah the hotter the temps, the more likely the engine is to pull some timing. Even worse if the AC is on. Professional car reviewers usually take air temperature and humidity into account if they are extreme.

Brake test results can vary because the make model and size of the tires, even on trucks from the same manufacturer, are not always the same. How well the brakes were bedded can have an effect too.

mookdoc6 · July 8, 2019

On 7/3/2019 at 1:15 PM, flyingfool said:

I've owned 3 Dodge Chrysler products since 2004-2020 by far the Dodge Fiat products suck, the warrantee service is horrible, the techs that do repairs are incompetant... the dodge truck owners are new to the brand , and dont know better

Pretty much and every one will say the Chevy, GMC was 4-5K more....no shit maybe you will learn your lesson next time!