Drivability of 6.6L gas 2500 vs 6.2L 1500

green02crew · September 7, 2019

I got more than $10k off sticker on my last 4 GM HD trucks, 3 of them 3/4 tons. You have to time the incentives and they don't usually advertise the incentives. If you have a relationship with a good dealer they call when the incentives hit.

Here's a nicely equipped 3/4 ton SLT for $49k (this dealer posts the real price, but I can always get similar deals locally with a phone call).

https://www.laurabuickgmc.com/VehicleDetails/new-2019-GMC-Sierra_2500HD-Crew_Cab_Standard_Box_4_Wheel_Drive_SLT-Collinsville-IL/3502656533

You just showed an advertised price, which isn’t an out the door real price. On top of that, it’s from the highest volume dealer in the US so they have the lowest prices on all trucks not just the HDs. It’s also 1/2 way across the country from me. It clearly shows in the ad, $1,200 off from GM, for an old body style. That’s the best you can get. And it still isn’t as well equipped as my 1/2 ton. I wanted a 3/4 and like I said, they just aren’t discounted.

Look how much they are offering off old body style 1/2 tons. It’s all comparable with dealer discounts. It’s the GM discounts that change and the 3/4 tons don’t have them. Period.

https://www.laurabuickgmc.com/VehicleDetails/new-2019-GMC-Sierra_1500_Limited-4WD_Double_Cab_SLE-Collinsville-IL/3488665893

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jjackkrash · September 7, 2019

31 minutes ago, green02crew said:

You just showed an advertised price, which isn’t an out the door real price. On top of that, it’s from the highest volume dealer in the US so they have the lowest prices on all trucks not just the HDs. It’s also 1/2 way across the country from me. It clearly shows in the ad, $1,200 off from GM, for an old body style. That’s the best you can get. And it still isn’t as well equipped as my 1/2 ton. I wanted a 3/4 and like I said, they just aren’t discounted.

Look how much they are offering off old body style 1/2 tons. It’s all comparable with dealer discounts. It’s the GM discounts that change and the 3/4 tons don’t have them. Period.

https://www.laurabuickgmc.com/VehicleDetails/new-2019-GMC-Sierra_1500_Limited-4WD_Double_Cab_SLE-Collinsville-IL/3488665893

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1. I said you have to time the discounts: they are not always available and you are not going to get a discount on a 2020 when they first come out. Next year the 2020s will probable get incentives started June - July and the incentives will be hit and miss through Christmas. But they will be there and when they do I will own a 2020 3500 Duramax Denali.

2. I clicked a quick link for an example that took 10 seconds to find. I did not try and time the discounts or do exhaustive research.

3. I bought a loaded, 2019 3500HD Denali with a Duramax in June for $12k off sticker, about $61k and some change out the door. (The diesel is a $9.5k upcharge). I probably could have haggled more but didn't feel like wasting a bunch of time. I picked up the phone and got the same price as the Laura advertised price 1500 miles away in the Pac NW. I can pick up the phone right now and get the same price as Laura is offering online on a similar truck within about $500-1000. ("Hey, this is jjackkrash. Laura has this truck for this, what can you do for me that would save me a plane ticket.")

4. I'm glad you got good deal on a truck you like. Right now is a great time to buy a 2019 GM 1/2 ton because sales are struggling a bit compared to historic sales vs. Ram and Ford and there are some reported issues with the tranny. In fact, my dad is looking for a 2019 1/2 ton, and there are some at $15k off msrp right now. That's a pretty stout deal and nothing to sneeze at. But you can get similar deals on a 3/4 tons if you shop when the incentives hit. It just might not be today. (I bought my 2016 2500 Denali with a Duramax for a similar discount when the '17s hit and felt pretty good about it.).

Edited September 7, 2019 by jjackkrash

jjackkrash · September 7, 2019

6 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

*

Edited September 7, 2019 by jjackkrash

SierraHD17 · September 7, 2019

3 hours ago, green02crew said:

I wanted a 3/4 ton. GM rarely, if ever, discounts them. At all. I picked up a new 1/2 ton Sierra 6.2, one step down from a Denali. Auto headlights, a/c seats, tow mirrors, the works. LOADED with a sticker of $59k, out the door for $45k. For all you claiming that a 3/4 is the same price, find me a 3/4 ton similarly equipped for anywhere near that.

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Got 30% off sticker on my 2017 2500HD and then turned around and financed my cash deal at 0% from GMAC. They get discounted like anything else.

green02crew · September 7, 2019

Got 30% off sticker on my 2017 2500HD and then turned around and financed my cash deal at 0% from GMAC. They get discounted like anything else.

Again, I’m not talking dealer discounts. Those are going to be comparable across the line depending on demand and volume from that dealer. I’m talking GM discounts, which vary depending on the model. 3/4 tons just don’t get them.

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Cowpie · September 7, 2019

I have seen several instances of buyers getting the new 2020 Chevy 2500 CC Z71 6.6L gassers with MSRP of around $48K - $49K going for roughly $40K. That matches up to what the NADA guide is showing. A 6.2L 1500 CC with every max tow feature will not even come close in both performance and cost. And we have to compare using the 6.2L 1500 to 6.6L 2500 to make the comparison fair. The fact that in the 1500 one has to shell out for a higher trim level to get the 6.2L and if one actually wants to get the most out of the engine has to use the higher priced premium fuel doesn't help. GM knows the type of buyer that looks at the 6.2L 1500 and really sticks it to them with a cattle prod. In the 1500 the 6.2L is an option that GM really fleeces the buyer for. In the 2500, the 6.6L is the base motor for the entire line.

Right out of the gate according to NADA, the average MSRP of a 6.2 1500 is at least $3000 more than a 6.6L 2500. And no where near the level of reduction off MSRP on the average sale. The better value is the 2500 in several ways. And it reaches maximum performance levels (very close engine output numbers as the 6.2L) on the cheapest gasoline you can find. No need for premium fuel. A little less HP in the 6.6 (401hp) compared to the 6.2, (420hp) but the torque of the 6.6L L8T (464lb) beats the 6.2L L86 (450lb) in torque by a comfortable margin and still uses a cast iron block. They would have been stupid to make the motor need premium fuel like the 6.2 for maximum performance given that the major market for the 2500/3500 series is commercial buyers. GM would have lost a substantial commercial base that they can't afford to lose.

I never concern myself with what discounts are available or who is offering them... dealer or OEM. I refuse to pay more than 80% of MSRP for any vehicle being made and generally target 75% or less of MSRP. How the dealer gets to that level is their problem, not mine. And I have not had a dealer who did not drop close to 80% off MSRP early in the negotiation, be it a 3/4 ton pickup or my wife's car. Even my commercial semi truck. Was listening to a RV industry insider recently who claimed that a factory rep told him that even if the buyer of a RV, TT, etc doesn't get 25-30% off the MSRP, they are paying too much.

My 2015 2500HD 6.0, LT, Z71, Snow Plow Prep, Tow package along with 5w/Gooseneck prep, and a line-X bed liner thrown in. 9500lb payload with 13,500lb tow. GCWR of 20,500. Sticker was $49K and I paid $38K. Was not during one of those "Chevy Truck Month" sales or any other program. I just contacted a dealer that had what I wanted, we went back and forth a couple of times online on pricing, and we came to an agreement.... before I ever took a personal look at the pickup. Sure the dealer was over 60 miles away, but I had several dealers near me that wouldn't reach the same price level, so the farther dealer got the sale. Only thing I changed on the pickup was I dropped the back with a set of McGaughy's drop shackles and installed a set of 1500lb SumoSprings urethane cellular foam supports in place of the factory bump stops. And got rid of the stock Ranchos for a set of Bilstein 4600's. Rides almost as well as a 1/2 ton. Not quite as smooth, but close.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Cowpie

jjackkrash · September 7, 2019

50 minutes ago, green02crew said:

I’m talking GM discounts, which vary depending on the model. 3/4 tons just don’t get them.

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On my 2016 I paid sales tax on $6.5K in factory rebates on my 3/4 ton. GM absolutely periodically offers factory incentives on 2500s.

TXGREEK · September 7, 2019

I have seen several instances of buyers getting the new 2020 Chevy 2500 CC Z71 6.6L gassers with MSRP of around $48K - $49K going for roughly $40K. That matches up to what the NADA guide is showing. A 6.2L 1500 CC with every max tow feature will not even come close in both performance and cost. And we have to compare using the 6.2L 1500 to 6.6L 2500 to make the comparison fair. The fact that in the 1500 one has to shell out for a higher trim level to get the 6.2L and if one actually wants to get the most out of the engine has to use the higher priced premium fuel doesn't help. GM knows the type of buyer that looks at the 6.2L 1500 and really sticks it to them with a cattle prod. In the 1500 the 6.2L is an option that GM really fleeces the buyer for. In the 2500, the 6.6L is the base motor for the entire line.

Right out of the gate according to NADA, the average MSRP of a 6.2 1500 is at least $3000 more than a 6.6L 2500. And no where near the level of reduction off MSRP on the average sale. The better value is the 2500 in several ways. And it reaches maximum performance levels (very close engine output numbers as the 6.2L) on the cheapest gasoline you can find. No need for premium fuel. A little less HP in the 6.6 (401hp) compared to the 6.2, (420hp) but the torque of the 6.6L L8T (464lb) beats the 6.2L L86 (450lb) in torque by a comfortable margin and still uses a cast iron block. They would have been stupid to make the motor need premium fuel like the 6.2 for maximum performance given that the major market for the 2500/3500 series is commercial buyers. GM would have lost a substantial commercial base that they can't afford to lose.

I never concern myself with what discounts are available or who is offering them... dealer or OEM. I refuse to pay more than 80% of MSRP for any vehicle being made and generally target 75% or less of MSRP. How the dealer gets to that level is their problem, not mine. And I have not had a dealer who did not drop close to 80% off MSRP early in the negotiation, be it a 3/4 ton pickup or my wife's car. Even my commercial semi truck. Was listening to a RV industry insider recently who claimed that a factory rep told him that even if the buyer of a RV, TT, etc doesn't get 25-30% off the MSRP, they are paying too much.

After having many 3/4 Diesels and a couple work gassers. I find the 1500 is much more nimble and easier to drive. And the lighter 1500 6.2 with 420 can easily be tuned where as the new 6.6 is going to be a difficult one to crack with all the new EPA restrictions. Pound to pound the 6.2 wins. IMHO, “not towing heavy” the 6.6 is middle ground but after being in 3/4’s I personally prefer the smoother and much more agile driving characteristics of the 1500 with a 6.2 especially as a daily driver.

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Cowpie · September 7, 2019

1 hour ago, TXGREEK said:

After having many 3/4 Diesels and a couple work gassers. I find the 1500 is much more nimble and easier to drive. And the lighter 1500 6.2 with 420 can easily be tuned where as the new 6.6 is going to be a difficult one to crack with all the new EPA restrictions. Pound to pound the 6.2 wins. IMHO, “not towing heavy” the 6.6 is middle ground but after being in 3/4’s I personally prefer the smoother and much more agile driving characteristics of the 1500 with a 6.2 especially as a daily driver.

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But of course it would be more "nimble" to drive. A 1500 is basically a car on steroids. A gasser 2500 weighs at least 1000 lb more out of the gate. Sure you can tune a 6.2L for more power, but it still will have lower payload and tow capacity of a stock base model 2500 by good margin. Nothing you can do about that. And to actually get the better performance out of the 6.2L L86, one has got to use Premium fuel. The stock 6.6L is on par with the 6.2L right from the factory using cheap regular fuel. Even with the higher fuel consumption of the 2500 6.6, the actual cost per mile for fuel is a wash with the 1500 6.2L on premium. Premium is going for $3.02 in area now. Regular is $2.17. Let's say the 2500 6.6 gets about 14 mpg average on regular. Not unrealistic. That comes out to 15.5 cents a mile fuel cost. A 6.2 1500 on premium would have to get roughly 20 MPG average to break even. That is overall average, not just highway MPG. Possible in the right hands, but again, that is only break even and the 2500 still leaves the 6.2 1500 in the dust in terms of capability.

When one really cranks the numbers, the 2500 is equally as good or better value.... pound for pound... than any 6.2L 1500.

If one is only looking for basic transportation, then the 1/2 ton has an edge. But not much. And I would never use a pickup as a daily driver unless I was using it for work related tasks or inclement weather. I much prefer to use a smaller vehicle with substantially better fuel economy, cheaper tires and parts, etc for a daily driver. Actually, my daily driver is a Class 8 Semi truck. I never have to drive go to it as it gets parked on my property when I am not using it for work. It is my business.

If one drops the air pressures in the LT E tires on the 2500 to a level that matches the actual weight on the axles (one can get a load pressure chart from the tire maker), replaces the stock Ranchos with a quality shock like Bilstein, the 2500 gets pretty close to 1500 like ride. I typically run about 50 PSI all the way around on my 2500 when empty instead of the stock 60 front 70 rear. My wife sure likes our current 2500 over a 1500 I mistakenly bought before it. I had been on 3/4 tons for a long, long time and ventured into 1/2 ton territory in 2013. Was inventing new swear words and finally had to give in and go back to a 2500 in 2015.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Cowpie

TXGREEK · September 7, 2019

But of course it would be more "nimble" to drive. A 1500 is basically a car on steroids. A gasser 2500 weighs at least 1000 lb more out of the gate. Sure you can tune a 6.2L for more power, but it still will have lower payload and tow capacity of a stock base model 2500 by good margin. Nothing you can do about that. And to actually get the better performance out of the 6.2L L86, one has got to use Premium fuel. The stock 6.6L is on par with the 6.2L right from the factory using cheap regular fuel. Even with the higher fuel consumption of the 2500 6.6, the actual cost per mile for fuel is a wash with the 1500 6.2L on premium. Premium is going for $3.02 in area now. Regular is $2.17. Let's say the 2500 6.6 gets about 14 mpg average on regular. Not unrealistic. That comes out to 15.5 cents a mile fuel cost. A 6.2 1500 on premium would have to get roughly 20 MPG average to break even. That is overall average, not just highway MPG. Possible in the right hands, but again, that is only break even and the 2500 still leaves the 6.2 1500 in the dust in terms of capability.

When one really cranks the numbers, the 2500 is equally as good or better value.... pound for pound... than any 6.2L 1500.

If one is only looking for basic transportation, then the 1/2 ton has an edge. But not much. And I would never use a pickup as a daily driver unless I was using it for work related tasks or inclement weather. I much prefer to use a smaller vehicle with substantially better fuel economy, cheaper tires and parts, etc for a daily driver. Actually, my daily driver is a Class 8 Semi truck. I never have to drive go to it as it gets parked on my property when I am not using it for work. It is my business.

If one drops the air pressures in the LT E tires on the 2500 to a level that matches the actual weight on the axles (one can get a load pressure chart from the tire maker), replaces the stock Ranchos with a quality shock like Bilstein, the 2500 gets pretty close to 1500 like ride. I typically run about 50 PSI all the way around on my 2500 when empty instead of the stock 60 front 70 rear. My wife sure likes our current 2500 over a 1500 I mistakenly bought before it. I had been on 3/4 tons for a long, long time and ventured into 1/2 ton territory in 2013. Was inventing new swear words and finally had to give in and go back to a 2500 in 2015.

There’s absolutely nothing basic about a half ton, much more luxurious then any 3/4 ton in ride comfort especially. Nothing luxurious about getting beaten down as a daily driver especially when 3/4 tons have wide turning radius. Only time I’d recommend anyone having a 3/4 ton would be if they’re towing something heavy and doing it often other than that you’ll get sick of the VERY rough ride when compared to a 1500. I’d recommend anyone looking for a 3/4 ton to PLEASE take your time test driving it especially over somewhat of a rough road and imagine being in it every day as a daily driver.

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SierraHD17 · September 7, 2019

3 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

On my 2016 I paid sales tax on $6.5K in factory rebates on my 3/4 ton. GM absolutely periodically offers factory incentives on 2500s.

Sorry bub... truck was on one of GM's clearance incentives that applied to the half tons too and I just negotiated the rest of it. Like seriously.. you think a dealership just pulled 30% off out of thin air with no manufacturer rebates? Sounds like a good way to go out of business lol. As mentioned GM puts incentives on the HDs just like anything else. If you don't find them you just aren't looking.

Edited September 7, 2019 by SierraHD17

TXGREEK · September 7, 2019

There’s definitely deals to be found. Every dealership gets a few (sometimes more) monthly called specials. I used to buy 2500’s this way for my business, gas and diesel.

Tell the sales manager that you’re looking for a special and not one of their special deals.

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kenny_r · September 7, 2019

I agree, I found a 2017 Sierra hd slt 6.0 towards the end of 2017 before I found mine. A loaded truck minus sunroof and vented seats.....which btw was a deal breaker for me because I wanted vented seats. $46,000 plus tax and 0% for 72 months. Msrp was $56700.

Cowpie · September 7, 2019

The dealers have incentives that the OEM is giving them that most folks never will know about unless they are also in the dealer loop. No dealer is getting hosed by knocking 30% off of MSRP. The dealer does have to pay on their floor plan and they need to move product. Every day a vehicle sits on a dealer lot costs them. They are bankrolled on their inventory and they have to pay interest on that floor plan that is calculated daily. There is a lot that goes on behind the scene that the average person has no clue of.

Many times their best profit margins are on used vehicles. Most folks don't realize that.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Cowpie

SierraHD17 · September 7, 2019

15 minutes ago, Cowpie said:

The dealers have incentives that the OEM is giving them that most folks never will know about unless they are also in the dealer loop. No dealer is getting hosed by knocking 30% off of MSRP. The dealer does have to pay on their floor plan and they need to move product. Every day a vehicle sits on a dealer lot costs them. They are bankrolled on their inventory and they have to pay interest on that floor plan that is calculated daily. There is a lot that goes on behind the scene that the average person has no clue of.

Or in my case advertised on the radio... TV and the internet lol.