Alignment specs after level 2016 Silverado

[mikeyk101]

I have a Quad cab short bed LT 4x4 and still have the stock 20" wheels 275/55R20. I recently did a RC 2" level. Prior to the level kit, I had very minimal vibration. During first year I had it, I did have a little more and took it to dealership. They rebalanced the wheels and the tech raised the pressure in all the tires to 35psi. This pretty much eliminated all the vibration except for occasionally very minor but wasnt very noticeable. I dont drive it very often so it was a couple weeks before taking it in for an alignment. Prior to the alignment, I noticed the steering wheel was turned a bit to the right while going straight. I think I put about 200 miles onto the truck prior to the alignment. I noticed that there was a slight increase of vibrations at higher speeds. After the alignment, I noticed quite a bit of vibration at 80mph. It would start at about 75 and very noticeable at 80. I didnt go faster than that so I dont know if it would settle down at even higher speeds. When I got a chance, I took a look at the alignment report which was kind of a waste of time because it was all Greek to me. I noticed the the before for Toe was in red but everything else was green. The actual adjustments were all green which assume means it's now in spec. It also appears only the Toe on both fronts were adjusted. I also noticed that on the rear, the right seemed to be left alone but the toe on the left was adjusted. On another sheet I got, it showed that the tire pressure was adjusted down to 32psi on all the wheels. All the tires measured out to 8/32 on tread depth and the truck has just over 38,000 miles on it. Shortly after starting the first trip on the highway after the alignment, I noticed that  the right fronts were reading 33psi, the left rear was at 32 and the right rear was at 31. I picked up an air gauge about 75 miles into the trip and compared the readings on the DIC. The fronts were at 35 hot so I brought those up to 37. The left rear, I also added 3psi to bring it from 34 to 37. And the right rear, I added 4psi to bring it from 33 to 37. I know I need to go back and adjust them cold but haven't had a chance. The vibration did seem to be a better but dropped from around 80mph to around 72-73 and seemed to be ok at 80 now.

 

I am fully aware of the vibration problem as it has been discussed over and over again on this forum but mine seemed to be pretty much ok overall pre level kit running 35psi. The only things that have changed were adding the level kit and the alignment. So can anyone shed any light on what might be happening and what you think about my post alignment values? I really like the look from the level kit and really want it to work...

[CamGTP]

The rear suspension is non adjustable because it's a solid axle. The front can still change the rear numbers and as you can see it's a super small amount.

 

I also hate those print outs, I only ever printed the "bar" graphs for customers so they can actually see the values with arrows showing the in and out spec. Makes it 10x easier to show how and why the changes were made. All in all the alignment looks good.

[Grumpy Bear]

This alignment would be unacceptable to me even though it is all pretty and green. Okay it's in spec but hardly right. 

 

Lets start with it's placement in the 'range'. Castor is not only at the extreme high end but cross castor is greater than a quarter degree. The part that is right is left castor is more positive than left. This isn't just about being picky. This is about ride quality and safety.  

 

Camber ditto. The cross camber is to great. Again target a quarter degree with left side more positive than left. If you get those two bias correct then it neither repels nor climbs the roads crown and as a bonus a more relaxed castor is less harsh. 

 

Toe is good and almost center spec. It's also the easiest to get right so no wonder there. 

 

Thrust angle. Yea back axle isn't considered adjustable but...front alignment center can correct this to some extent. That said this reading is pretty darn good. No dog tracking. My rear axle was actually out of square by a bunch and we got it corrected at the problem. Right rear spring perch. That castor camber in the rear...ignore it. Can be the result of four tires with slightly different pressures. That should have been checked before the alignment was attempted. Could be the way he mounted the rear mirrors. Could be one rims that are imperfect. Most are. 

 

You can get a 'green screen' and have an alignment so messed up it heads for the ditch or other lane and eats tires like candy PLUS is a HUGE fuel hog. You won't have to use enough brain cells to heat your hair oil to understand that it would be possible to have a right side positive bias, for instance, and remain in the green. You will also have a truck that fights you. 

 

 

This alignment sends Pepper down the road, hands off the wheel, for over a quarter mile down the center of my lane on a straight section of highway. It also helps her with her life time average 27.6 mpg PLUS the original Bridgestone Dueler 684 II tires now have 103,500 miles and are just under 7/32". That sir is low drag. My OEM alignment was indeed near the very top of the castor range and the hit on an expansion joint was unbearable. Just the castor reduction lessened the hit. 

 

Most of the time when I see an alignment like this on a lifted/leveled truck, it is because it just ran out of adjustment. There are increased camber and castor bolts available. The larger reason is speed. This guy wants you in and out like a bunny. He makes no more money if it's right or wrong. He isn't buying the tires and "he's the expert". How dare you challenge him. RIGHT. This is...your money....your truck....your way. You're paying for it. There is no reason other than damage that a front end should not be able to be adjusted to center spec and positive driver side bias. (Unless you live in England )

 

I spent near $5K on my King/Deaver/Sulastic setup. How many hours did that take to earn? He hasn't a single story I care to listen to for not giving me what I paid for and he did. 

 

Okay, rant over......

 

BTW you TPMS readings are not instant nor completely accurate. Just a reference. Use your gauge numbers cold as your base reference and do so before the sun hits the sidewalls in the morning or before you take her out of the garage. Oh and your steering wheel should be centered while your driving down the road with a very neutral feel ,that is neither pushing nor pulling on the wheel, while engaging the straight portion of a reasonably straight smooth section of paved major highway. 

 

 

[2018GMC]

Here is my alignment printout when I installed my 5100’s with 1.75” lift on front.

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

58 minutes ago, 2018GMC said:

Here is my alignment printout when I installed my 5100’s with 1.75” lift on front.

 

 

That is allot of castor. YIKES!! 

[mikeyk101]

Well it looks like I am making a trip back to have some more adjustments made. After reading Grumpy Bear's response, I think I understand a bit better now. After looking a little closer at my printout, I see that it appears only the Toe was adjusted. And I didnt realize that the Caster especially on the LF is barely in spec and doesnt seem to have beeen touched at all. I did set all the tires at 35psi today and got a chance to get out on the highway. I'm still having a noticeable vibration around 80. I did run it up to 85 and 90 for a little bit to check but it didnt seem to go away. It was fine before the level and alignment. I will have a discussion with them and have them set everything as close to center spec as they can. In hoping that will take care of the high speed vibrations...

[Grumpy Bear]

http://www.priertiresupply.com/pdf/hofmannbrochures/fundamentals of alignment.pdf

 

Food for thought. 

[mikeyk101]

Well I finally got a chance to get back for a recheck of the alignment. Unfortunately I didnt get anything changed. I was told that even though some of the specs were at the very end of being still in spec, that changing them to center spec would still probably not correct my high speed shake. They said something about the caster and camber could be adjusted but they are locked by pins??? And that it would be more trouble than it was worth. They also suggested that because a level kit was added, that the factory specs may no longer apply and that different specs may now be in play but that they could only set the alignment to original factory specs. I call BS... They said that it might possibly need a shim kit, or a change if the UCA, or a strut change but that even doing this, it would probably not fix my high speed shake. They also said that the tires may need to be rebalanced and that maybe I threw a weight but that the alignment would not fix the shake. I tried explaining that prior to adding the level kit,  I didnt have any shake since the first couple months of owning this truck and that the dealership fixed it by changing the psi from 32 to 35 for all the tires. They recommend that I might want to take it to a dealership as they might have a better solution. They also said that if the dealership corrects it by adjusting the alignment, get a detailed receipt and that they would honor it as part if their 1 year alignment warranty. And if it needs something else, to let them know so they can have that information for the future.

 

I was originally going to let a dealership handle the install. I found a dealership up in Burlington WI, not too far from me that advertises that they install level and lift kits. They were going to do everything for about $360 or so but of course, I knew better and figured I could save some money and install myself and then just need an alignment. Seeing that they have experience in leveled and lifted trucks, I'm going to reach out to them and see if they can solve my issue... Ugggggh!

[2018GMC]

17 minutes ago, mikeyk101 said:

 

I posted my alignment specs earlier in the forum. Even though my caster is towards the higher end my truck drives like factory and I’ve had lift on for 6000 miles and tire wear is nice and even.

 

I would suggest you make sure everything is tight where the lift was installed. Have your tires rebalanced and rotated and see if you notice a difference or hopefully the shake goes away.
 

If you still have a problem after this then go to a shop that has experience in lifting these trucks and have them give it a once over.

Edited October 11, 2019 by 2018GMC

[mikeyk101]

13 minutes ago, 2018GMC said:

I posted my alignment specs earlier in the forum. Even though my caster is towards the higher end my truck drives like factory and I’ve had lift on for 6000 miles and tire wear is nice and even.

 

I would suggest you make sure everything is tight where the lift was installed. Have your tires rebalanced and rotated and see if you notice a difference or hopefully the shake goes away.
 

If you still have a problem after this then go to a shop that has experience in lifting these trucks and have them give it a once over.

Especially after Grumpy Bears suggestions and looking at your printout, I still think it's an alignment issue. Your Cross Camber is 0⁰ and Cross Caster is -0.1⁰ which agrees with his suggestion of being within a quarter difference. My Cross Camber is .4⁰ and Cross Caster is .5⁰ which even though falls within "specs" is more than a quarter difference. Before rebalancing the tires, which were somehow fine before the level install, I'm going to reach out to the dealership I should have gone to first. They do have experience and have been very helpful in the past. They might have some further insight on what is going on. Thank you for your info and printout of your alignment results.

 

I also have to ask, did your place balk at all over adjusting the camber and caster? My thoughts are that my place which is always extremely busy, just doesnt want to do the work.

[2018GMC]

Especially after Grumpy Bears suggestions and looking at your printout, I still think it's an alignment issue. Your Cross Camber is 0⁰ and Cross Caster is -0.1⁰ which agrees with his suggestion of being within a quarter difference. My Cross Camber is .4⁰ and Cross Caster is .5⁰ which even though falls within "specs" is more than a quarter difference. Before rebalancing the tires, which were somehow fine before the level install, I'm going to reach out to the dealership I should have gone to first. They do have experience and have been very helpful in the past. They might have some further insight on what is going on. Thank you for your info and printout of your alignment results.
 
I also have to ask, did your place balk at all over adjusting the camber and caster? My thoughts are that my place which is always extremely busy, just doesnt want to do the work.

I took mine into the local GMC dealer and they did the alignment. I didn’t ask about the caster because it was within spec and I’ve read on other sites that the gmt900 and k2xx have positive caster from the factory.

If someone has a printout of stock alignment, that would be a good comparison.

After 6k miles of driving, it still tracks straight and tire wear is even so I’m not worried about it.

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, mikeyk101 said:

Well I finally got a chance to get back for a recheck of the alignment. Unfortunately I didnt get anything changed. I was told that even though some of the specs were at the very end of being still in spec, that changing them to center spec would still probably not correct my high speed shake. They said something about the caster and camber could be adjusted but they are locked by pins??? And that it would be more trouble than it was worth. They also suggested that because a level kit was added, that the factory specs may no longer apply and that different specs may now be in play but that they could only set the alignment to original factory specs. I call BS... They said that it might possibly need a shim kit, or a change if the UCA, or a strut change but that even doing this, it would probably not fix my high speed shake. They also said that the tires may need to be rebalanced and that maybe I threw a weight but that the alignment would not fix the shake. I tried explaining that prior to adding the level kit,  I didnt have any shake since the first couple months of owning this truck and that the dealership fixed it by changing the psi from 32 to 35 for all the tires. They recommend that I might want to take it to a dealership as they might have a better solution. They also said that if the dealership corrects it by adjusting the alignment, get a detailed receipt and that they would honor it as part if their 1 year alignment warranty. And if it needs something else, to let them know so they can have that information for the future.

 

I was originally going to let a dealership handle the install. I found a dealership up in Burlington WI, not too far from me that advertises that they install level and lift kits. They were going to do everything for about $360 or so but of course, I knew better and figured I could save some money and install myself and then just need an alignment. Seeing that they have experience in leveled and lifted trucks, I'm going to reach out to them and see if they can solve my issue... Ugggggh!

And there we have it. More trouble than it is worth....to him...Find a new shop. 

[flyingfool]

yes, I used a local race shop that specialized in autocross with porche and mercedes race cars, he has all the tools to do full alignment, and install caster camber kits .  he'll do anything i ask cause its 50 bux an hour

 

makes me wonder what my specs are , and are all 4 wheels squared up or what?

Edited October 11, 2019 by flyingfool

[flyingfool]

 

 

On 10/4/2019 at 9:37 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

This alignment would be unacceptable to me even though it is all pretty and green. Okay it's in spec but hardly right. 

 

Lets start with it's placement in the 'range'. Castor is not only at the extreme high end but cross castor is greater than a quarter degree. The part that is right is left castor is more positive than left. This isn't just about being picky. This is about ride quality and safety.  

 

Camber ditto. The cross camber is to great. Again target a quarter degree with left side more positive than left. If you get those two bias correct then it neither repels nor climbs the roads crown and as a bonus a more relaxed castor is less harsh. 

 

Toe is good and almost center spec. It's also the easiest to get right so no wonder there. 

 

Thrust angle. Yea back axle isn't considered adjustable but...front alignment center can correct this to some extent. That said this reading is pretty darn good. No dog tracking. My rear axle was actually out of square by a bunch and we got it corrected at the problem. Right rear spring perch. That castor camber in the rear...ignore it. Can be the result of four tires with slightly different pressures. That should have been checked before the alignment was attempted. Could be the way he mounted the rear mirrors. Could be one rims that are imperfect. Most are. 

 

You can get a 'green screen' and have an alignment so messed up it heads for the ditch or other lane and eats tires like candy PLUS is a HUGE fuel hog. You won't have to use enough brain cells to heat your hair oil to understand that it would be possible to have a right side positive bias, for instance, and remain in the green. You will also have a truck that fights you. 

 

 

This alignment sends Pepper down the road, hands off the wheel, for over a quarter mile down the center of my lane on a straight section of highway. It also helps her with her life time average 27.6 mpg PLUS the original Bridgestone Dueler 684 II tires now have 103,500 miles and are just under 7/32". That sir is low drag. My OEM alignment was indeed near the very top of the castor range and the hit on an expansion joint was unbearable. Just the castor reduction lessened the hit. 

 

Most of the time when I see an alignment like this on a lifted/leveled truck, it is because it just ran out of adjustment. There are increased camber and castor bolts available. The larger reason is speed. This guy wants you in and out like a bunny. He makes no more money if it's right or wrong. He isn't buying the tires and "he's the expert". How dare you challenge him. RIGHT. This is...your money....your truck....your way. You're paying for it. There is no reason other than damage that a front end should not be able to be adjusted to center spec and positive driver side bias. (Unless you live in England )

 

I spent near $5K on my King/Deaver/Sulastic setup. How many hours did that take to earn? He hasn't a single story I care to listen to for not giving me what I paid for and he did. 

 

Okay, rant over......

 

BTW you TPMS readings are not instant nor completely accurate. Just a reference. Use your gauge numbers cold as your base reference and do so before the sun hits the sidewalls in the morning or before you take her out of the garage. Oh and your steering wheel should be centered while your driving down the road with a very neutral feel ,that is neither pushing nor pulling on the wheel, while engaging the straight portion of a reasonably straight smooth section of paved major highway. 

 

 

so what do you recommend the trucks Caster be set at?  neg 2.3 or neg 2.0???

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by flyingfool

[mikeyk101]

1 hour ago, flyingfool said:

 

 

so what do you recommend the trucks Caster be set at?  neg 2.3 or neg 2.0???

 

It appears based on what I see that the screen is showing 2.3 for the left side and 2.0 for the right side. After going through his post, he mentions that the left side should be more positive than the right side and I think that is what is being shown. Also if you look, you will see the high spec on the outside on each side and the low spec on the inside.

Edited October 12, 2019 by mikeyk101