New 6.6 gas

[Cowpie]

15 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

Last thing is trade in value, diesel will keep its value where as gassers especially 2500’s lose value quick!

 

 

That gets thrown around pretty loosely.  I did a check of values of 5 year old pickups via the NADA guide which is the dealer standard, and what I found was telling.  While the diesels still had a higher value than the gassers just as they did when initially bought, when you compare it to the initial cost of the vehicles, the gassers actually retained more trade in value.  The gassers lost less percentage of initial value than the diesels did.  

 

I did a check of my 2015 2500HD 6.0.  I paid $38K for it brand new.  NADA shows trade in value of $29,050...  a $9K loss.  The very same spec'd 2500HD LT Double cab, Z71, standard bed, snow plow prep, bed liner, and full Raptor running boards with the 6.6 Dmax and same odometer miles has a trade in value of $35,050... only $6K better trade in value, yet a Dmax version of the very same pickup truck costs more than the $6K spread in initial price.    That is unless one could have bought a similar spec'd brand new Dmax pickup for no more than $44K in 2015.  Pretty rare occurrence of that.  Thus, the diesel actually lost a higher percentage of value.

 

But the "diesel holds more of its value" mantra is as Joseph Goebbels of Nazi Germany said... "if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will come to believe it".

[TXGREEK]

That gets thrown around pretty loosely.  I did a check of values of 5 year old pickups via the NADA guide which is the dealer standard, and what I found was telling.  While the diesels still had a higher value than the gassers just as they did when initially bought, when you compare it to the initial cost of the vehicles, the gassers actually retained more trade in value.  The gassers lost less percentage of initial value than the diesels did.     I did a check of my 2015 2500HD 6.0.  I paid $38K for it brand new.  NADA shows trade in value of $29,050...  a $9K loss.  The very same spec'd 2500HD LT Double cab, Z71, standard bed, snow plow prep, bed liner, and full Raptor running boards with the 6.6 Dmax and same odometer miles has a trade in value of $35,050... only $6K better trade in value, yet a Dmax version of the very same pickup truck costs more than the $6K spread in initial price.    That is unless one could have bought a similar spec'd brand new Dmax pickup for no more than $44K in 2015.  Pretty rare occurrence of that.  Thus, the diesel actually lost a higher percentage of value.

 

But the "diesel holds more of its value" mantra is as Joseph Goebbels of Nazi Germany said... "if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will come to believe it".

 

 

  I was a partner of one of the largest Ship Repair companies in the Gulf, family owned, and we went through trucks like hot cakes, I’m Basing this off of owning at the least 13+ diesels, not speculations or he said she said, real world. I bought my 2016 diesel LTZ drive out $62 cash otd, traded it in 2018 for over $53k. I can go on and on, diesels don’t just kick gassers ass in towing but in resale too. Take a 10 year old DMax versus a 10 year old gasser, both with 100k miles, diesels are just broken in at 50k where I’d be looking at getting rid of my gasser and you’ll get maybe 6.7k for the gassers where as 10 year old diesel will be approximately 25k plus

 

Diesels RULE in the truck world all day long, just a pain in the ass (for me at least) cause being 2500’s plus, they’re rougher riding and louder.

 

Your or my Cost of maintaining a diesel is irrelevant, I spend more on my truck than the average person does, why? Cause I can and enjoy being proactive and while owning my diesels, my maintenance guys kept them running (kept them running, loosely used) and only serviced them when remembered to service them lol, proving reliability of diesels. My favorite vehicle in 2001 was an old beat up White Ford Regular Cab 2wd 3500, parked my high dollar vehicle inside closed doors, drove home with it, later met my date at the restaurant, walked out and she said “wait, WHAT and started laughing, I lost that truck due to an AHole teenagers careless driving, I later married her and she brings up the White Ford Diesel 3500 every time someone asks to hear about our first date. I’d pay an enormous amount for that truck to be in my garage, it’s forever gone now. There’s not been any gasoline vehicle that’s ever lasted as long as anyone of our diesels and with the amount of hauling (you haul) and pulling from cargo falling off ships cranes to numerous interior swaps, the diesels were always the most reliable.

 

Sorry, didn’t mean to go on so long but to each their own and everyone will value their vehicles for what they are but I’d take a diesel any day over a gasser.

 

Btw, I love my 6.2 1500, as a daily driver, Home Depot, short road trips [emoji6]

 

 

 

 

 

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[TXGREEK]

Btw, left out that EVERY gasser we used going from Houston to Florida and Georgia would pull over multiple times to cool down when pulling heavy ship spares. We wouldn’t use transport companies with gassers, didn’t trust them getting there on time, only diesels


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[Cowpie]

I appreciate the anecdotal comments, but the NADA guide is the defacto industry standard on vehicle values, and I contend  if anyone pays more for a used vehicle than what the NADA guide's suggested value is, then they it is their fault.  And of course, I wouldn't blame any dealer for being able to snooker anyone out of more money than a vehicle is worth if one is willing to pay it.  Car sales, after all, is a business.   And has been oft stated over the years, "there is a sucker born every minute".

[TXGREEK]

No disrespect, Cowpie, your truck isn’t worth that much, try closer to $20K.

 

 

Sent from Above

 

 

[Cowpie]

19 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

Btw, left out that EVERY gasser we used going from Houston to Florida and Georgia would pull over multiple times to cool down when pulling heavy ship spares. We wouldn’t use transport companies with gassers, didn’t trust them getting there on time, only diesels


Sent from Above

And I would add that gassers out sell diesels 3 to 1 in fleet sales.  Commercial users seem to do just fine with them.  Most of the commercial users in my area use gasser 3/4 and 1 tons including many of the farmer cooperatives in my area. And those guys pull double trailers, 1000 gallons each, of anhydrous ammonia in and out of farm fields, to and from central storage locations.   I have done my own little unscientific study of these things.  Being in commercial transport myself, I cover a dozen different states every month.  I have made note of commercial 3/4 and 1 tons that I see on the road.   Gassers easily out strip diesels by a 3 to 1 margin.  And GM knows that too. That is why they came out with the 6.6 gasser and Ford brought out the 7.3 gasser.  Fleet owners do not want the hassles of diesel and were clamoring for higher output gassers. And the OEM's are answering that call.   

 

I go thru about 21,000 gallons of diesel a year myself.  It isn't that I hate diesels.  They have a definitive place in the overall scheme of things.  But I also know value for what I am doing. that is why my business has never had a red month in 12 years.  And it is why I have a gasser 3/4 ton as one of the pieces of equipment in my business.   

[TXGREEK]

And I would add that gassers out sell diesels 3 to 1 in fleet sales.  Commercial users seem to do just fine with them.  Most of the commercial users in my area use gasser 3/4 and 1 tons including many of the farmer cooperatives in my area. And those guys pull double trailers, 1000 gallons each, of anhydrous ammonia in and out of farm fields, to and from central storage locations.   I have done my own little unscientific study of these things.  Being in commercial transport myself, I cover a dozen different states every month.  I have made note of commercial 3/4 and 1 tons that I see on the road.   Gassers easily out strip diesels by a 3 to 1 margin.  And GM knows that too. That is why they came out with the 6.6 gasser and Ford brought out the 7.3 gasser.  Fleet owners do not want the hassles of diesel and were clamoring for higher output gassers. And the OEM's are answering that call.   

 

I go thru about 21,000 gallons of diesel a year myself.  It isn't that I hate diesels.  They have a definitive place in the overall scheme of things.  But I also know value for what I am doing. that is why my business has never had a red month in 12 years.  And it is why I have a gasser 3/4 ton as one of the pieces of equipment in my business.   

 

Gassers outsell diesels cause they’re cheaper for fleet use, Ford outsells GM because cheaper stripped down fleet models. Diesels haul much more too, 35,500 #’s to the 17,400 #’s hauling gasser (based on the 2020’s).

 

Gassers definitely have their place in the industrial and towing industry for those that don’t need all that extra towing capacity which like myself, towing max 13000# 5th wheel, my DMax never once slowed down in the hills or mountains and had plenty of power to spare.

 

I’d definitely buy a gasser for payload and minimum towing on flat areas but that’s the thing (for me) I’d only own a 2500 if I was towing a 5th wheeler and it would definitely be a DMax especially the new 2020’s.

 

I’d definitely buy a 2500 gasser for heavier payload and towing compared to the previous 6.0 but again, I travel into mountains and LOVE that diesel over any gasser. Gassers are excellent vehicles too, just gotta find that specific spot for them and you’ve definitely found it for yourself.

 

Anyway, good luck to everyone, left you guys this Car and Driver article for additional and constructive reading on the new 2020 HD trucks and what to expect from them......

 

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28196401/2020-chevrolet-silverado-2500-3500-drive/

 

 

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[Cowpie]

35 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

 

Gassers outsell diesels cause they’re cheaper for fleet use, Ford outsells GM because cheaper stripped down fleet models. Diesels haul much more too, 35,500 #’s to the 17,400 #’s hauling gasser (based on the 2020’s).

 

Gassers definitely have their place in the industrial and towing industry for those that don’t need all that extra towing capacity which like myself, towing max 13000# 5th wheel, my DMax never once slowed down in the hills or mountains and had plenty of power to spare.

 

I’d definitely buy a gasser for payload and minimum towing on flat areas but that’s the thing (for me) I’d only own a 2500 if I was towing a 5th wheeler and it would definitely be a DMax especially the new 2020’s.

 

I’d definitely buy a 2500 gasser for heavier payload and towing compared to the previous 6.0 but again, I travel into mountains and LOVE that diesel over any gasser. Gassers are excellent vehicles too, just gotta find that specific spot for them and you’ve definitely found it for yourself.

 

Anyway, good luck to everyone, left you guys this Car and Driver article for additional and constructive reading on the new 2020 HD trucks and what to expect from them......

 

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28196401/2020-chevrolet-silverado-2500-3500-drive/

 

 

Sent from Above

 

 

Well, considering that the mean elevation is less than 3000 feet across the U.S., most folks aren't trying to pull up and down mountains.  Again, you are applying your anecdotal experience to the general population.  But even among general buyers, gasser HD pickups outsell diesels.  Just like commercial buyers, most folks don't have the need for diesel or want the added cost.  Most folks are not trying to move 15,000 lb of trailer either on flat land or in the hills.  Some, like me, rarely tow anything at all, and even then less that 10,000 lb, but we need the better payload of a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton.  Putting 5-6 55 gallon drums of oil or over a ton of material in the back of a 1/2 ton is not a pretty sight, whereas a 3/4 ton is made for it..  

 

Even in my observation, many who do have diesel pickups don't need them.  There seems to be many who get diesels to make a social statement.   It is the Ooo Awww factor.   Being able to have a megaphone exhaust pipe and a stencil in the back window proclaiming Duramax or PowerStroke or Cummins.  Of course, they are allowed to spend their money any way they want, but trying to justify it with on paper capability capability arguments doesn't make it.  Very few actually use a diesel pickup to those capabilities.  Not like those of us who actually buy and use diesel powered trucks to their full hauling potential every day.   My commercial truck is rated and tagged for 80,000 lb gross.  It now has 46,000 lb of cargo on it for a gross of about 79,000 lb.  How many use diesel pickups... daily or even ever.... to haul around 95% or more of their designed payload and towing?  Very few.

[KARNUT]

I used diesel one tons because I had too. They pulled great. I always had weigh in the back, fuel tank, tool box etc. When not pulling I’d lower the air pressure to lessen the bounce. The late 80s to the early 2000s we modified them to get decent empty acceleration out of them. They were dogs. They were tools. I couldn’t imagine just driving one for the hell of it. Of course I’m one of the few that consider most pickups as tools. I even have a street rod pickup. Only for the lack of decent American made rear drive V-8 sedans. I’d even drive a rear drive LTD if they still made them. Like I said pickups to me are tools, use what you need.


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[TXGREEK]

 
Well, considering that the mean elevation is less than 3000 feet across the U.S., most folks aren't trying to pull up and down mountains.  Again, you are applying your anecdotal experience to the general population.  But even among general buyers, gasser HD pickups outsell diesels.  Just like commercial buyers, most folks don't have the need for diesel or want the added cost.  Most folks are not trying to move 15,000 lb of trailer either on flat land or in the hills.  Some, like me, rarely tow anything at all, and even then less that 10,000 lb, but we need the better payload of a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton.  Putting 5-6 55 gallon drums of oil or over a ton of material in the back of a 1/2 ton is not a pretty sight, whereas a 3/4 ton is made for it..  
 
Even in my observation, many who do have diesel pickups don't need them.  There seems to be many who get diesels to make a social statement.   It is the Ooo Awww factor.   Being able to have a megaphone exhaust pipe and a stencil in the back window proclaiming Duramax or PowerStroke or Cummins.  Of course, they are allowed to spend their money any way they want, but trying to justify it with on paper capability capability arguments doesn't make it.  Very few actually use a diesel pickup to those capabilities.  Not like those of us who actually buy and use diesel powered trucks to their full hauling potential every day.   My commercial truck is rated and tagged for 80,000 lb gross.  It now has 46,000 lb of cargo on it for a gross of about 79,000 lb.  How many use diesel pickups... daily or even ever.... to haul around 95% or more of their designed payload and towing?  Very few.

That’s your trailer weight capacity and thank God for traffic cops, can’t tell you how many idiots haul trailers they shouldn’t be hauling but that’s for another thread.

I believe, could be wrong but I’ve heard that GM states that 95% of people don’t even use trucks for what they were designed for and yet they’re still bought and sold everyday. I don’t know anyone that owns a gasser 2500 cause who would want to have limitations when owning a 3/4 ton truck? I bought a diesel (in addition to my hauling needs and experience with them) cause I love them, more dependable and powerful which is what a truck should be. Europe is FULL of diesels, everywhere you look, when you see a transporter of goods, powered by diesel, even taxi cabs are diesels. Diesels have been getting into the half ton trucks lately cause they’re more efficient and powerful.

Anyway, don’t want to keep going on and on and on about it, both have their places in personal and commercial use.

Good luck to you and everyone else CYa!


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[Cowpie]

Like I stated, I need the payload capacity of the 2500, but I don’t need diesel.  A gasser will haul 2500 lb of cargo in the back just fine , even up and down hills.   And there is no advantage of diesel over a gasser when it comes to pushing snow.  Both of these things a gasser 2500 will do better than a 1500.  
 

And last spring when the thaw turned our rural gravel road into a mud pit.  My 19,000 lb semi tractor just buried itself in the mud.  Had the wife hook up our gasser 2500 to the front of the tractor and pull me 2 miles, up and down the hills, to the nearest hard top road.  Did a great job and wife did a stellar job also.  
 

we only put about 6000 miles a year on it.   Heck, just changed the factory air filter last week!  Still very servicable but After 5 years I figured it would be nice to change it out.  But when we use it, it works and dies what we need it to do.  Diesel not necessary.  1500 was  not enough truck in 2015 when I bought our 2500.  Even now I would select a gasser 6.6 2500 over a 6.2 1500 because of overall capability.  And still wouldn’t need diesel.

[texasnavy05]

1 hour ago, TXGREEK said:

 

. I don’t know anyone that owns a gasser 2500 cause who would want to have limitations when owning a 3/4 ton truck? 

 

With this argument couldn't you also say, "who would want to limit themselves to a 2500 when you could buy a 3500 DRW?"   

 

The reasons that people buy a gas 2500 is because it meets their towing needs and it saves them $9500 up front and continues saving them throughout ownership.  If the gasser meets my towing needs why would I pay more for the diesel?  

 

 

[bartonjude]

Well said Texasnavy!

[TXGREEK]

With this argument couldn't you also say, "who would want to limit themselves to a 2500 when you could buy a 3500 DRW?"   
 
The reasons that people buy a gas 2500 is because it meets their towing needs and it saves them $9500 up front and continues saving them throughout ownership.  If the gasser meets my towing needs why would I pay more for the diesel?  
 
 

I’m not downing the 6.0 or 6.6 but I’m sure there’s have been and will be going to be multiple times you wish you had that extra power. For me and everyone I know, we’d rather have that extra power and use it if needed then not having it and wishing we did.

Not only do you have superior towing but you get every bit of the xtra diesel cost back when you sell it and more if and when you sell it. I think it’s great that the new gassers are up graded and should do well for people like you that fits your towing and cost requirements. More power to you, be safe and good luck!




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[texasnavy05]

18 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

 

 For me and everyone I know, we’d rather have that extra power and use it if needed then not having it and wishing we did.

 

Then why not get a 3500 DRW?  

you get every bit of the xtra diesel cost back when you sell it and more if and when you sell it. 

This is a common misconception.  You will get more $ for resale with the diesel, but it will be a comparable percent of original sale price.  


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