Another oil thread

[customboss]

So how does ALISYN do it? super low vis synthetics that have super high load bearing capabilities? 
 

ALISYN most common recommendation is their 0w20 

 

 

<0w 
 

https://brocksperformance.com/less-than-0w-alisyn-synthetic-oil-quart/

 

Here’s their 15w40 

https://brocksperformance.com/15w-40-alisyn-synthetic-oil-quart/

Edited July 9, 2024 by customboss

[customboss]

BTW AMSOIL bought Aerospace lubricants recently. 
 

https://www.windsystemsmag.com/news/amsoil-acquires-aerospace-lubricants/

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

The industry has been on a path for some time now into a zone of personal discomfort to me. Not so much the goal but the path. For some years now DLC coatings have been the focus of experimentation and some motors even coated bores. The idea being to not reduce but to eliminate oil friction in the bore. Running oils so thin they CAN-NOT keep parts from touching parts. And perhaps, someday they will be successful. But some day isn't today. These coatings fail routinely. The result? Poor sealing and unacceptable oil consumption. They start out nice and tight and before they reach 100K... gulp, gulp, gulp.

 

Who is funding this research?  Where is the lab?  Well kids, we are, and the lab is the market.  They do not care about this paths impact on YOU. They WILL get lab results and they will tweak and fail until they don't; all on our dime. 

 

Problems other than the wrong funding and wrong lab is the inescapable fact that the data they retrieve by its very nature is incomplete and adulterated. This is going to be painful and slow, and I don't wish to participate.

 

Pepper and Dizzy share ring and bore technology and Pepper, so far, has survived 2.25 X longer, issue free, because? Very different Maintenace regime and fluids and a bit of 'time and the unforeseen' not happing to Pepper. GDI pump failure.

 

This entire auto thing is very dynamic and hard to see all the interconnected parts operating in concert. Sometimes this is due to conceptual difficulty and sometimes it is according to 'the plan'. Conspiracy? Not one bit. Opportunistic is more the model. Like a boxer landing a punch after seeing an opponent's weakness is the way he holds his hands. Observant and opportunistic. 

 

He's questions for ya all. Considering there are so many EXPERTS, why no solutions? Why is a solution considered to product of the ignorant and the failures that of experts.  

 

40 years doing the same thing isn't 40 years' experience. It's one years' experience rehashed for 40 years. Something beat into me in the refining industry. 

 

We have what we have and have had it for a long time. Lean it, use it and put down that Kool-Aid. 

 

 

[customboss]

17 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

The industry has been on a path for some time now into a zone of personal discomfort to me. Not so much the goal but the path. For some years now DLC coatings have been the focus of experimentation and some motors even coated bores. The idea being to not reduce but to eliminate oil friction in the bore. Running oils so thin they CAN-NOT keep parts from touching parts. And perhaps, someday they will be successful. But some day isn't today. These coatings fail routinely. The result? Poor sealing and unacceptable oil consumption. They start out nice and tight and before they reach 100K... gulp, gulp, gulp.

 

Who is funding this research?  Where is the lab?  Well kids, we are, and the lab is the market.  They do not care about this paths impact on YOU. They WILL get lab results and they will tweak and fail until they don't; all on our dime. 

 

Problems other than the wrong funding and wrong lab is the inescapable fact that the data they retrieve by its very nature is incomplete and adulterated. This is going to be painful and slow, and I don't wish to participate.

 

Pepper and Dizzy share ring and bore technology and Pepper, so far, has survived 2.25 X longer, issue free, because? Very different Maintenace regime and fluids and a bit of 'time and the unforeseen' not happing to Pepper. GDI pump failure.

 

This entire auto thing is very dynamic and hard to see all the interconnected parts operating in concert. Sometimes this is due to conceptual difficulty and sometimes it is according to 'the plan'. Conspiracy? Not one bit. Opportunistic is more the model. Like a boxer landing a punch after seeing an opponent's weakness is the way he holds his hands. Observant and opportunistic. 

 

He's questions for ya all. Considering there are so many EXPERTS, why no solutions? Why is a solution considered to product of the ignorant and the failures that of experts.  

 

40 years doing the same thing isn't 40 years' experience. It's one years' experience rehashed for 40 years. Something beat into me in the refining industry. 

 

We have what we have and have had it for a long time. Lean it, use it and put down that Kool-Aid. 

 

 

Oh you mean this : 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

What's not to Love? 

 

Porsche C30 Audi/VW 504/507. Low ash, 0.63%. HTHS of 3.6 cSt. Moly/Boron. High Ester POA and Infinium add pack. And more recent than this VOA the LSPI issue has been addressed. 

 

Ever notice that low SAPS oils specified by MB, Porsche, Audi also have high HTHS values and a requirement for 'stay in grade"?  Now why do you suppose that would be?  

 

Oh, wait, they took out a bunch of AW chemistry. Phos/Sulfur. 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 Corinthians 4:7 (NWT) reads: 

 

For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?

 

This is a statement, if you read the surrounding context, is about the nature of knowledge. What it does not comment on is how well you know it.

 

Question, how would one gauge the depth, breadth and accuracy of one's personal knowledge?  When I say "one" I don't mean the external examination that one may receive from men but rather the examination one gives themself? The one you do before you speak.

 

To be useful to someone else how much knowledge or experience does one need to have? And the answer to that is; one fact more than the person you are trying to be useful to. 

 

Your friend has a gun pointed at his head showing off drunk. You know something he does not. The gun is loaded. Might that be useful to him? I expect so. Should I not tell him because I can't pontificate on the ballistics of the round or the nature of the weapon? If I could, which piece of information would be the most useful to him? 

 

If I actually built the gun and knew it was absent a firing pin and the round absent powder does that change what he needs to know? I now have several useful facts that could be shared and I'm still no more useful that when I had but one.

 

Let's add a third person to the room and he is the world's foremost authority on ballistics. How useful is he to this drunk friend of mine when he opens his mouth and what comes out is telling this poor sap what an Idiot I am because I don't know what he knows? And in truth he doesn't himself know what I know. There is no firing pin nor primer.

 

Is he useful or just boastful? Perhaps just hateful.  

 

Viscosity is the single most important property in lubrication.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2024 by Grumpy Bear

[customboss]

Viscosity is a measure of a fluid's resistance to flow.
APPROPRIATE viscosity allows protection for boundary and hydrodynamic layer protection.

Extra viscosity isn’t better for a given application. In fact it holds heat and generates needless drag and friction. 

 

Why post Judeo Christian myth statements? 
 

 

[OnTheReel]

2 hours ago, customboss said:

Viscosity is a measure of a fluid's resistance to flow.
APPROPRIATE viscosity allows protection for boundary and hydrodynamic layer protection.

 

 

Of course. The issue is with who deems a viscosity “appropriate” and why. For example it’s interesting that the same exact Toyota engine (A25A-FKS) in Europe can use up to 10w30 if temperatures are appropriate. 

Here in the states things read a little different.

Nevermind 10w30, they scare the owner out of even using 0w20. This is nothing more than CAFE BS and we all know it.

[VicFirth]

Something I've noticed with HPL.  Virgin oxidation to used oil sample oxidation.  With HPL we see it start around 23 and often jump up +20.  Sometimes it will go up a grade, sometimes it won't like in this case below.  Oxidation value is now 51 but it's still a 30 grade.  So is it not oxidizing?  

 

11,759 on oil - HPL PCMO 5w30

21 Chevy 1500 5.3L

130k miles on unit
Fram endurance FE10575 was used for the entire run.
Both oil and filter were changed using the exact same.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2024 by VicFirth

[customboss]

58 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

Of course. The issue is with who deems a viscosity “appropriate” and why. For example it’s interesting that the same exact Toyota engine (A25A-FKS) in Europe can use up to 10w30 if temperatures are appropriate. 

Here in the states things read a little different.

Nevermind 10w30, they scare the owner out of even using 0w20. This is nothing more than CAFE BS and we all know it.

Used oil analysis is the only way you as a consumer will know if its OK to change the recommendation for a particular area.  It's your car do what you want to do!  Who cares what CAFE requirements are? Especially if you are convinced its all BS. 

[customboss]

45 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

Something I've noticed with HPL.  Virgin oxidation to used oil sample oxidation.  With HPL we see it start around 23 and often jump up +20.  Sometimes it will go up a grade, sometimes it won't like in this case below.  Oxidation value is now 51 but it's still a 30 grade.  So is it not oxidizing?  

 

11,759 on oil - HPL PCMO 5w30

21 Chevy 1500 5.3L

130k miles on unit
Fram endurance FE10575 was used for the entire run.
Both oil and filter were changed using the exact same.

 

 

This 5.3 is not combusting cleanly or hasn't in near past as indicated by the UOA.  His nitration is double what a clean burn would yield for oxidized fuels, NOx blow-by into the oil from rings scraping it off. Also there should be no detectable soot and he has 0.01% soot. 

 

HPL is fighting all that and cleaning it seems.   Change air filter, plugs, boots and clean up injectors with Amsoil PI if not done before 130,000 miles. 

 

 

 

[customboss]

On the HPL analysis what does WC stand for?  W cup?  Odd I have never seen that reading as WC. 

 

 

[OnTheReel]

1 hour ago, customboss said:

Used oil analysis is the only way you as a consumer will know if it’s OK to change the recommendation for a particular area.  It's your car do what you want to do!  Who cares what CAFE requirements are? Especially if you are convinced it’s all BS. 

You’re missing the point, probably on purpose. Europe and the US both have conditions that can vary from tropical to polar. Don’t you think it’s a little odd that the manual for the US implies that anything heavier than 0w16 is unacceptable while the same engine in Europe allows for anything up to 10w30. What’s the difference here besides impossible CAFE standards to achieve? It sure looks to me that viscosity is being selected based on efficiency, not wear protection.

Edited July 10, 2024 by OnTheReel

[customboss]

1 hour ago, OnTheReel said:

You’re missing the point, probably on purpose. Europe and the US both have conditions that can vary from tropical to polar. Don’t you think it’s a little odd that the manual for the US implies that anything heavier than 0w16 is unacceptable while the same engine in Europe allows for anything up to 10w30. What’s the difference here besides impossible CAFE standards to achieve? It sure looks to me that viscosity is being selected based on efficiency, not wear protection.

I did not miss YOUR point. I shared my advice. Enjoy a point of view from JASO you might have not thought about. 
 

In Japan, the JASO GLV-1 classification, which targets SAE 0W-8 and 0W-16, was developed as a standard with low viscosity, excellent fuel economy and engine reliability and has been claimable since October 2019. In Europe, the major step is the introduction of lower viscosity SAE 0W-20 oils, with the focus on excellent fuel economy while maintaining engine durability across longer engine oil drain intervals (ODI).

https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/designing-more-sustainable-lubricants/

 

Edited July 10, 2024 by customboss

[Grumpy Bear]

4 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

Of course. The issue is with who deems a viscosity “appropriate” and why. For example it’s interesting that the same exact Toyota engine (A25A-FKS) in Europe can use up to 10w30 if temperatures are appropriate. 

Here in the states things read a little different.

 

Nevermind 10w30, they scare the owner out of even using 0w20. This is nothing more than CAFE BS and we all know it.

 

Depending on where in the world you are, the Mitsubishi 3A90/92 engine calls out anywhere from 0W20 to 20W50