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Trans Flush Question

Jimmah

By Jimmah
in Engines & Drivetrain

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Bash74 Enthusiast

Bash74

Posted
Posted

Okay I stepped into that one.

 :crackup:

 

Look, guys drive a truck 10 years and put 100 K on it and think that is a high miler and say XYZ did ABC. 

Truth is you could have done nothing but top off oil for that distance (before AFM) and got a 100K from it.

Does that mean you shouldn't change your oil?

 

100K isn't much of a test.

Yet there are guys here than have had oil related failures well under that mark and blame it on the mechanicals.

 

Some guys get 250K from an automatic with out ever looking at it.

Some can't get 30K from one.

Ya think it's the oil or the load? 

 

 
A lot of reality to what you said. The not wife at the time bought a truck years ago with 70k on it. Fast forward a few years later to when I met her and there was 275k miles on it. When I asked her about oil changes and stuff she says never has done anything to the transmission and only had the oil changed twice. She said all she would do is check the stick every once in awhile and if it was low she would just dump some in till it got to the top line. That is it. Truck still running today.

I say could be the fluid, or load, or just luck.

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Grumpy Bear
Grumpy Bear

AMSOIL may very well be a fine fluid and perform just as well as any other PAO/POE juice out there. Wait, there are but two. The other is Red Line. ?   Okay that out of the way. Each fluid h

diyer2
diyer2

My 93 Silverado 4 speed (4l60E) lasted over 200K miles using Castrol Transmax Dex6. 1 filter change. Fluid removal/ replace via dip stick tube every 15-20k miles. 

Grumpy Bear
Grumpy Bear

It is a very sophisticated swiss style clocked and jeweled hydraulic twin bellows balance speed control system used to control the steam admissions and/or extraction valve(s). Instead of spring or a g

newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted
On 10/22/2020 at 11:31 PM, 2020_3500HD said:

Grumpy, why the red line over the amsoil?  I am coming up on my 5000 mi get the breakin fluid out change and if you can let me know why?  I have always used Amsoil before but am open to others if it is better for my application by the way I have the 6l90 transmission.  Thanks in advance

 

Just to be clear, there is no "break in" ATF in the transmission.  

  • Like 1
2020_3500HD Enthusiast

2020_3500HD

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

Just to be clear, there is no "break in" ATF in the transmission.  

 

8 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

Just to be clear, there is no "break in" ATF in the transmission.  

The fluid is in there while parts are being used for the first time right???  Hence “break in”.  

KARNUT Senior Enthusiast

KARNUT

Posted
Posted

Better change the brake fluid, antifreeze, rear fluid. Window washer fluid, air in the tires. I hate it when the rubber pieces get caught in the valve stems. All seriousness the transmission as well as the engine has a filter. No need for break in fluid.


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newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, 2020_3500HD said:

 

The fluid is in there while parts are being used for the first time right???  Hence “break in”.  

 

I get the engine at 1500mi or whatever (silicone residues from the RTV used for gaskets on the oil pan and front cover).  I get the diffs at 500mi per AAM because of the heat produced from ring and pinion in the first 500mi. 

 

Transmission?  No purpose.  There is nothing to degrade the fluid as there is no RTV used in any point of assembly on these transmissions so no silicone leaching that can aerate the oil.  The filter will catch whatever you can throw at it too.  

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, newdude said:

 

I get the engine at 1500mi or whatever (silicone residues from the RTV used for gaskets on the oil pan and front cover).  I get the diffs at 500mi per AAM because of the heat produced from ring and pinion in the first 500mi. 

 

Transmission?  No purpose.  There is nothing to degrade the fluid as there is no RTV used in any point of assembly on these transmissions so no silicone leaching that can aerate the oil.  The filter will catch whatever you can throw at it too.  

How about heat? Wear material contamination? That filter is dog and cat catcher, right?

? 

  • Haha 1
CamGTP Senior Enthusiast

CamGTP

Posted
Posted

I heard the factory throws some clutch material sludge in the pans before they go on. So we gotta get that out ASAP!!!!!

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

Anybody on this list have experience in industrial drive hydraulics? Automatic transmissions are hydraulics systems. What is the standard for cleanliness and operating temperatures? Tell ya what it isn't. It doesn't boil the control circuits and servos in hot oil and it filters finer than 100 micron (current)/200 micron (screen systems in older transmissions). I'm surprised they last as long as they do. Industrial hydraulics filters to a Beta of 75 in the 2-5 micron range. 

 

Keep it cooled. Keep it well filtered. Keep it changed...it will last awhile. 

 

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flyingfool Senior Enthusiast

flyingfool

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Anybody on this list have experience in industrial drive hydraulics? Automatic transmissions are hydraulics systems. What is the standard for cleanliness and operating temperatures? Tell ya what it isn't. It doesn't boil the control circuits and servos in hot oil and it filters finer than 100 micron (current)/200 micron (screen systems in older transmissions). I'm surprised they last as long as they do. Industrial hydraulics filters to a Beta of 75 in the 2-5 micron range. 

 

Keep it cooled. Keep it well filtered. Keep it changed...it will last awhile. 

 

i got several balers , my big one that runs all day long gets an oil filter once a year, i believe its a 50-100 micron screen. i never changed the oil , but the filter change require a top up of about 1/2 gallon. oil tank is about 25 gallons. operating temp is 90-100 degrees,  full oil change would probably cost $500.  i might top up a balers oil tank every 3-4 years, maybe drain it 6-10 years, but the tanks are huge

 

best thing one can do to your gm trans, is big trans pan , aux filter or bi-pass filter, tt-stat delete, and GM's new torque management technology, should last 250k miles if all is well

Edited by flyingfool
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, flyingfool said:

i got several balers , my big one that runs all day long gets an oil filter once a year, i believe its a 50-100 micron screen. i never changed the oil , but the filter change require a top up of about 1/2 gallon. oil tank is about 25 gallons. operating temp is 90-100 degrees,  full oil change would probably cost $500.  i might top up a balers oil tank every 3-4 years, maybe drain it 5-6 years, but the tanks are huge

A log splitter is a hydraulic system but not quite the same thing as the 'jewel box" balanced bellows hydraulic speed control on a feed forward Elliot 200,000 hp steam turbine in an ethylene plant. Maybe I should have put industrial in caps. 

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, flyingfool said:

what's a 'jewel box" balanced bellows hydraulic speed control  ????

It is a very sophisticated swiss style clocked and jeweled hydraulic twin bellows balance speed control system used to control the steam admissions and/or extraction valve(s). Instead of spring or a gas they use fluid. Hydraulic fluid. Nothing pneumatic or mechanical is precise enough nor fast enough. 

 

Compressors this size (186,000 hp.) have multiple critical speeds that need to be navigated rapidly and precisely during a very specific heat up schedule. Then handle abrupt systems upsets during operation. That keeps the 20 square miles around a billion pound a year C2 plant safe enough not to be on an island in the middle of the ocean. The plant I worked in had two of these this size plus three more smaller intersystem cryogenics turbines. At the time they were the largest in the western world. I hear there is one now a bit larger in Texas :crackup:Gave me ulcers (and an adrenaline rush you wouldn't believe) to bring one to speed and there were only two of us trained and qualified to do so. I was my introduction to the Oil/Gas/Chemical field I worked in for 40 years...give or take. At the time a SPPE was a bit more than a Homer Simpson. ?

 

Your 6L80E isn't quite all that but the principles apply to any hydraulic system.  

 

Keep it cool. Keep it clean. Keep it changed. Keep it inside it's design. Keeps it alive. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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flyingfool Senior Enthusiast

flyingfool

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

It is a very sophisticated swiss style clocked and jeweled hydraulic twin bellows balance speed control system used to control the steam admissions and/or extraction valve(s). Instead of spring or a gas they use fluid. Hydraulic fluid. Nothing pneumatic or mechanical is precise enough nor fast enough. 

 

Compressors this size (186,000 hp.) have multiple critical speeds that need to be navigated rapidly and precisely during a very specific heat up schedule. Then handle abrupt systems upsets during operation. That keeps the 20 square miles around a billion pound a year C2 plant safe enough not to be on an island in the middle of the ocean. The plant I worked in had two of these this size plus three more smaller intersystem cryogenics turbines. At the time they were the largest in the western world. I hear there is one now a bit larger in Texas :crackup:Gave me ulcers (and an adrenaline rush you wouldn't believe) to bring one to speed and there were only two of us trained and qualified to do so. I was my introduction to the Oil/Gas/Chemical field I worked in for 40 years...give or take. At the time a SPPE was a bit more than a Homer Simpson. ?

 

Your 6L80E isn't quite all that but the principles apply to any hydraulic system.  

 

Keep it cool. Keep it clean. Keep it changed. Keep it inside it's design. Keeps it alive. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

got any pictures of the jewel box, i'm curious as to what this machine looks like

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, flyingfool said:

got any pictures of the jewel box, i'm curious as to what this machine looks like

Just the ones in my head sir. I have not seen one since about 1979/80. Left light gas for retorting/refining shale oil about that time. They might not even be in use anymore since the age of computers. 

 

I remember the bellows were exposed and under glass. A puff of wind would upset them. The oil was extremely light and water clear. The part you could see was about the size of a coffee table as I recall. It was a long time ago. This HUGE turbine ran a small pump that 'told' the box it's speed via oil pressure. The steam side referenced steam pressure to another small oil system and the oil pressures were compared via the jewel box to a (third) reference pressure that was I over P. The difference was the signal to the admissions valve. I suppose they use stepper motors now. 

mookdoc6 Senior Enthusiast

mookdoc6

Posted
Posted
On 10/24/2020 at 12:22 PM, newdude said:

 

I get the engine at 1500mi or whatever (silicone residues from the RTV used for gaskets on the oil pan and front cover).  I get the diffs at 500mi per AAM because of the heat produced from ring and pinion in the first 500mi. 

 

Transmission?  No purpose.  There is nothing to degrade the fluid as there is no RTV used in any point of assembly on these transmissions so no silicone leaching that can aerate the oil.  The filter will catch whatever you can throw at it too.  

ummm...You most definitely want to replace Trans fluid on equipment.  just saying!

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